Ready Check: Catacysm raid changes a tier later

When Cataclysm was being developed, Blizzard announced a lot of changes that they would be making to the raiding scene. Specifically, 10- and 25-man raids would now essentially be considered one and the same. They would share the same lockout, reward the same loot, and generally be considered as equal.
The community, in their grand resistance to change, called foul on many of these changes. Certainly, WotLK created an embitterment towards 10-man raiding as being "easier" or a "lower class" of raiding that simply wasn't on the same scope as 25-man raiding. In their defense, they had every right to think this because that is exactly how Blizzard had made raids at the time.
Now that we've been through a whole tier of raiding under these changes, and as we move onto the next tier, it is time to reflect back on all of the arguments that sprouted and see how realistic they really were.
Rant 1: 10-man content is easier
Shooting right at the heart of the fight, there largest concern regarding having both 10- and 25-man content provide the same rewards was that 10-man raiders wouldn't face nearly the same challenge as 25-man raiders. Way back to what seems like forever ago, 10-man content was easier. In fact, raiding first at the 10-man level in order to advance into the 25-man level was considered to be a common trend. Although the gear rewards weren't the same, they still provided that extra boost that could help a struggling guild progress.
In Cataclysm, I feel that Blizzard has actually done a rather good job in terms of balancing the difficulty of encounters across the two raid sizes. That being said, there are certainly some very obvious discrepancies between the two that can cause a little bit of friction.
The first is one of cooldowns. The entire raiding scene this expansion has been all about cooldowns, no one cares how much you can actually heal for, it's all about how much damage you can mitigate. In this respect, 10-man content certainly has an easier go of the matter. This is because there are several abilities that have artificial caps on them. Anti-Magic Zone is a clear example of this.
Dropping an Anti-Magic Zone in a 25-man raid and a 10-man raid will probably result in the same amount of damage being mitigated due to the cap, yet in the 10-man raid there's significantly less damage going out. Nefarian is a prime example of this with his Electrocute ability. While AMZ will clearly break early in both situations, it would reduce a larger percentage of the overall damage in a 10-man raid.
The off-set of this is numbers. While such cooldowns are more effective in 10-man content, one would expect more of them in 25-man content. This dichotomy that exists between the two creates a natural balance, but is it balanced? Certainly healing in 10-man content is less intensive, but at the same time one can easily make the argument that each healer has more pressure on them because there is a disproportionate amount of healers. A 10-man with two healers has 1/5 of the raid healing, which equates to five healers in 25-man, yet six is a more common number to see.
I've seen nearly all 10-man content healed by a single healer once the raid is on farm. Though the accounts of 25-man content using two and half healers are fewer, it's possible that such occurrences simply aren't talked about as much.
Balancing encounter mechanics
For what it is worth, most content has been pretty evenly balanced at this point, but there are still some rather obvious outliers that deal exclusively with encounter mechanics themselves. It's a fact that we have to face: Certain mechanics will always be easier to handle in 10-man content, while others will always be easier in 25.
The Twilight Ascendant Council, as an example, is far easier in 10-man instead of 25-man. This is because the spreading mechanic that players have to deal with is simpler with fewer players. Further, DPS control is easier to do with fewer DPS, particularly fewer DOT effects ticking off on a boss. Perhaps the most grievous case of this offense was Al'akir, who was ridiculously easier to defeat in 10-man content than 25-man. So much easier, in fact, that many 25-man guilds broke down into 10-man raids just to tackle this encounter.
To be fair, not everything is rosy for 10-man raiders either. Encounters which rely heavier on certain class mechanics are far more difficult for them to handle. Cho'gall proved this rather effectively. 10-man guilds had a lot more composition trouble in having to deal with slowing adds and breaking mind controls. There are a plethora of abilities that can break Worship, but it's easier to do in 25 than 10.
The same is also true for encounters which require the use of a player to perform a secondary task. Having a death knight kite adds for Magmaw or Conclave of Winds is trivial for a 25-man group whom have plenty of players to spare. It's a bit harder to do this in a 10-man, though, where you don't have the player capital to go around.
With pros and cons on either side, it's difficult to say that either holds less value than the other. The reality is that both offer their own, unique challenges that have different ways of over coming them.
Rant 2: 10-mans require less logistical planning
Getting 25 different people together and running in a smooth raiding guild is tough work -- any guild or raid leader can attest to this. If it isn't one problem, then it's another. 25-man content requires more coordination, period. You need more time to set up player roles, more time recruiting, more supplies, more everything. It isn't easy, and for that 25-man raiding guilds felt they should be rewarded for the additional effort.
Blizzard agreed with this sentiment and offered superior loot gains for raiding in a 25-man setting, allowing you to gear up players faster (at least in the theoretical sense). While this wasn't entirely enough for some players, I frankly think that it is overly generous.
While there is no denying that it is more difficult to organize a 25-man raid, 10-man raiders certainly face tough logistical problems of their own. Raid composition matters far more in a 10-man raid than it does to a 25-man raid. This can actually result in recruitment problems just as difficult as those seen by 25-man guilds.
A 25-man raid doesn't need to stack any particular class nor spec. They need a few bare essentials, but after that, a vast majority of players are pretty much filler. Have two or three balance druids? Whatever, sucks for them to fight over the gear. Four hunters? Who cares? Having a surplus of any particular class or spec isn't really prohibitive in that setting.
This simply isn't the case for a 10-man raiding guild. You have far fewer options in the type of spec or class that you can take, and every one of those choices matters far more. For example, a 10-man raid with a fury warrior, retribution paladin, shadow priest, elemental shaman, and arcane mage as their primary raiding DPS is going to be in a really sore spot for AOE and slows.
Who you takes matters far more in a 10-man raid. There, your composition can literally make or break you for certain encounters. There's buff stacking to worry about, cooldown disparity, and a slew of other concerns that you have to juggle, too. 25-man raids aren't easy to organize by any means, but anyone who claims that 10-man players can just pick up nearly anyone and go is fooling themselves. Ten-man raids take their fair share of planning.
Rant 3: 25-man raids won't matter, guilds will die!
OMG RUN! RUN! RUN! It's the guild-pocalypse! Guilds all across the WoW-verse are suddenly going to implode and no one anywhere is going to be raiding 25-man content ever! Hide your children! Hide your wives! Hide your cute, fluffy teddy bears!
There was a lot of hubbub that every single raiding guild in the game was suddenly just going to disappear and that the days of the 25-man raider were numbered. Why would you bother running 25-man content if it was harder, more logistically challenged, and didn't actually offer anything tangible in return?
On the personal side of things, back then, somewhere deep down, I probably shared this fear. The guild that I had spent all of TBC and Wrath with died due to this very specific change. We were a struggling 25-man guild that was always recruiting people, and constantly looking for people. All in all, we were average. When it came about that we could do 10-man raids in Cataclysm and get the same rewards, that was that. We became a 10-man guild.
I prefer my 25-man raids and wanted to keep that, so I set off. It left me wondering how many other people had the same experience that I did. In all honesty, there's probably a large number. And yet, 25-man raiding didn't die in the least.
Twenty-five-man raiding still happens all over Azeroth. New 25-man guilds crop up all the time, and there just isn't any real sense that it's a waste of time to work towards 25-man raiding. It is clearly a matter of preference, and you'll gravitate to the one you like the most. If you want a 25-man raid group, you can easily find one, just as it was before.
Where will we go from here?
This has only been the first Cataclysm tier. The changes are still just settling in and no one can ever really predict what the future is going to hold. The player base changes as the demographic changes, and with that comes different needs. It is unlikely that we will ever return to the previous days of 40-man raiding, and I will honestly say that any new MMO out there which tries such a thing will only be able to reach a niche level of success that simply won't compare to what WoW has grown into.
MMOs themselves are changing, because those that play MMOs are changing. The original player base is getting older; their wants and desires morph with their age. The new young guns hold different ideas and values when it comes to gaming. Further, the "older" generation is becoming more and move involved in the gaming community. As time changes all things, so will games adjust. This has been one raiding adjustment; so far I believe it has worked out rather well.
What shall the future hold for the raid setting as a whole?
Ready Check shares all the strategies and inside information you need to take your raiding to the next level. Be sure to look up our strategy guides to Cataclysm's 5-man instances, and for more healer-centric advice, visit Raid Rx.
Filed under: Raiding, Ready Check (Raiding)
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Tyler Caraway Jun 17th 2011 5:08PM
There are logistical limitations on a few encounters that would prevent them from being solo healed, yes. I don't think there's any possible way to do Conclave simply due to platforms, but Al'Akir honestly wouldn't be all that bad depending on your group set up.
Phase 1 is the only time where there's any spacing issues that would prevent it, and certain DPS comps could actually provide enough self healing. For example, it isn't uncommon to send Enhancement shaman out of their on for that phase, and a shadow priest might be able to handle it was well.
It'd be tough, but with enough well geared DPS it might be manageable. Though, now that I think about it, you possibly could technically use nothing but a well geared enhancement shaman for Conclave as a pseudo healer. They might be able to handle the tank damage on Anshal.
The only snag would be dealing with Nezir during Sleet Storm. Honestly, a single Tranquility and the shaman should be enough to get you through, and that that point you should have enough DPS that you only hit one phase. Still, it'd be harder and I don't see much pay out for not just going with two healers.
Tyler Caraway Jun 17th 2011 5:14PM
You really wouldn't try Chim, matticus? The nominal shadow priest and enhancement shaman would make it trivial, I'd think. Raid healing is fairly low, it just needs to be quick. Tank damage is decently high, but not over bearing. The hardest to heal phase would be Feuds.
At that point, the shaman can probably focus on healing, and you utilize cooldowns. I'd only think you'd hit two such phases by that point, three at the most.
Again, though, single healing relies just as much on raid composition and raid skill as it does on the healer themselves.
matticus Jun 17th 2011 5:19PM
Tyler I have never raided with a Shadow Priest, so I guess I can see it in that case. I didn't realize how good their raid heals were. Sounds like maybe they are getting away with something :)
Nomembrane Jun 17th 2011 5:21PM
Haha, not to mention that Nef has the SAME amount of adds on 10 and 25 man, except 25 man you have an army of people to deal to them. Yeah 10 man is way easier. Not.
And no, bosses are not being 1 healed even on farm. Even with 372 gear 11/13H there is just no way.
Typical bullshit written from the top of someones head. How about you get a heroic content raider to actually write about raiding? 10 man is so much harder than 25 man its actually laughable. Im going to say you have not even a single 10 man heroic boss achieve at all.
Sumitra Jun 17th 2011 6:05PM
"You really wouldn't try Chim, matticus? The nominal shadow priest and enhancement shaman would make it trivial, I'd think. Raid healing is fairly low, it just needs to be quick. Tank damage is decently high, but not over bearing. The hardest to heal phase would be Feuds."
Yeah... get back to us with a video on that.
I'd love to worship at the feet of your solo healer that gets 3 or more people up to from 1 to 10k health every few seconds, all the while healing your off tank up to survive double strikes. I'll even assume your main tank completely heals himself to 10k without fail.
Don't forget that you'll need to heal up 200k+ caustic slimes hits spread across the raid every few seconds during the Feud phases. Hope you've got a big mana pool!
Like a lot of the points in this article, it doesn't really reflect reality.
Nomembrane Jun 17th 2011 6:24PM
@Sumitra
Couldnt have said it better myself. People come to Wow.joystiq to learn and read about wow, there is no need / point in spreading false information or even writing about something with pure assumptions. Not only does it anger people, but it encourages people to not come back and read this nonsense.
Riari Jun 17th 2011 6:25PM
@Tyler
I thought Shadow Priest heals were nerfed when Cataclysm went live so healers had to actually do triage (and so on).
I really cannot see any raid being healed by one person. Especially Chimaeron. You have two or so seconds to get two to three people back over 10k. Spread out people at that. Plus tanks being hit with double attack. I would think they would have some incredible haste and a very large mana pool.
Though we had a shadow priest on one of our tries. We were still struggling to get people up in time and have enough mana till 20%. (Though I had the most issues. That fight freaks me out with the low bars.)
cyanea85 Jun 18th 2011 6:21AM
@Tyler
You...don't know how Chimeron works, do you?
Three targets have to be healed up to 10k in about four seconds. Tank damage isn't high? Your MT has to be healed to 10k every five seconds, and your double strike tank has to be healed to full between each DS phase. That's not including Massacres knocking EVERYONE down to 1 health. That's not including Feud phase Caustic Slimes which requires people to be brough up to about a half, and kept there for ten seconds through 200k hits spread out among the raid.
Vampiric Embrace ticks for about 900k, and only works on Direct damage now. An Enhancement Shaman Chain Heal is only going to heal for 3k or so on the first jump and has a three second cast time.
I don't think you understand how Chimeron works.
matt Jun 18th 2011 8:07AM
wow Tyler, generally i feel like you pretty reliable but this is pure bias against 10m. show me the video of any 1 heal kill of a 10m normal boss. I'm not saying it does not happen but it is an outlandish claim to drop without any evidence.
the cd argument is pure nonsense, how many AMZs do you have in you 25m? we have 0 in my 10m so I really wouldn't know how superior it is in 10m.
this article fails and Matt is being WAY to nice not calling you out on your BS 1 heal claim
chrissie Jun 19th 2011 9:21AM
Regular Chimaeron can definitely be solo-healed -- our Resto Druid did it on a night when I couldn't raid and they were 9-manning -- and I'm pretty sure I could solo-heal Twin Dragons without much of a problem, probably some others as well, but if you are capable of solo-healing these fights, why are you doing regular modes anyway?
And why would you use regular modes to determine encounter balance?
wpoitras Jun 17th 2011 4:40PM
So why did most people raid in 25s anyway? For better purple pixels? It can't be for the love of a bigger raid. Or the challenge. Those things haven't changed. All that changed was the difference (or in this case the lack of difference) of loot.
Tom Jun 17th 2011 7:56PM
Lots of people want a way to feel like they're better than others. I think a lot of the persistence of 25s is based on this, flimsy though it may be.
DragonFireKai Jun 17th 2011 4:44PM
While the nacent days of Cataclysm have been a trying time for guilds, it's no where near the guild shattering monstrosity that was Burning Crusade launch. T4 content killed more guilds than any tier in history, by a huge margin.
sullyXXX Jun 17th 2011 4:47PM
I wasn't around back then; why did that happen?
Arrohon Jun 17th 2011 4:56PM
40 man raid guild were forced into 25 man.
John Jun 17th 2011 4:57PM
It happened because the math says 10+10=20 rather than 25.
DragonFireKai Jun 17th 2011 4:58PM
At the end of Vanilla, all raiding was done in either a 40 man format (MC, BWL, AQ40, Naxx40) or a 20 man format (ZG and AQ20). Enter BC raiding. Those guilds then had to break up their raiding teams into 10 man groups to run Kara, which was mandatory for access to later content, then they had to rebuild to a 25 man raiding group to tackle any other raids.
Players who wanted to blitz through Kara were upset if their guild built even raiding teams and slowed 10 man progression in favor of having a viable raiding team.
Guilds that did make a ten man all star team and bulldozed Kara hit a wall when they got to Gruul's or Mag, because while those ten were ready, the other fifteen were even worse off than the guys in the other guild.
Add into this the rediculously overtuned content spurred on by blind buffs to all raid content after Death and Taxes rather disdainfully kicked over Gruul on the Beta ptr, and you have a recipe that killed off probably around 70% of the guilds on my server, which was a well progress, high population server.
Trisnic Jun 17th 2011 7:31PM
I remember this and I saw this happen with the 40 man guild I was in at the time. There was a huge amount of drama over Karazhan groups and helping with attunements. It was really disturbing to see this happen to once healthy 40 man raiding guild. That guild is now dead. Thankfully several of those members still raid together in another 25 man guild on our server.
Arrohon Jun 17th 2011 4:45PM
I'd hate to be that 1/2 a healer. Must be a gnome or goblin....
Faralia Jun 17th 2011 4:55PM
Personally I prefer 25 man raids, mostly because I believe that they provide a more epic feel. I'm really into the lore, and it just didn't feel 100% right having only 10 people kill a figure as powerful as the Lich King back in WotLK. That and pretty much everyone in my guild is a friend, and I like to raid with my friends, all of which can't fit into a 10 man. But, again, everyone has their own opinions and situations, so I'm pretty pleased with the way Blizzard has made raiding accessible to guilds of all sizes.