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6-19-2011 @ 11:21AM
Because I felt like giving my 2 cents on the race/class thing:Some classes make sense that anybody can be those things -- like hunters, mages, et cetera. Some of them really don't, like paladin. Already with the addition of tauren paladins, it means we're unlikely to get tier sets with a true paladin aesthetic anymore. The whole argent champion, fist of the Silver Hand, faithful of the Light sort of thing can't really happen because that's not the tauren. And to a lesser extent, that's not the blood elves. Alliance paladins are champions of the Light, blood elves sort of are but sort of aren't, and the Tauren worship something completely different. They're Sunwalkers, not paladins. There is no coherent VISION across the class anymore. They can't make a Sunwalker set for tauren and a Paladin set for the Alliance. And if they did, what would Blood Elves wear? The Paladin set because they're Paladins or the Sunwalker set because they're Horde?Paladin sets from now on will just be magical warrior sets instead of HOLY warrior sets, and that's kind of a shame.I don't know exactly where I was going with that or what the point of it was, and that's why this was a comment on The Queue and not a post of its own. :D
6-19-2011 @ 12:13PM
I know it will never happen, but I'd love to see every set be different based on race. I know they've done sets based on instance, sets based on class, but it would be really cool to see all the dwarves have a similar look wether they be priests, rogues, shaman, or paladins, or Orcs have a theme based on wether they're Warlocks, Shaman, Hunters, or Warriors. But I'm well aware of the limitations on the art team, and creating that many different (though similar design) sets would be well out of their time constraints, I'm sure.The Dance studio MUST take priority right now. :)
6-19-2011 @ 12:36PM
I appreciate why we can't have specific races start off as say a Paladin or a Warlock but how about having the ability to approach a trainer at max level and change your existing class, maybe through a set of quests to "Unlearn" your existing class then a new set of starter quests tailored for a high level character to introduce you to the new abilities/requirements of the chosen class ?
6-19-2011 @ 12:46PM
@Nosh: I have seen the request for a paid class change on the WoW forums as well. However, I'm not trying to be snippy, but this is a horrible idea. The leveling process is where you learn to play your class. Allowing someone to go from, for example, a priest to a druid would cause many problems. People already complain about "bads" not knowing how to play. Imagine if people could change their class without having to level it and at least get some experience with their abilities.
6-19-2011 @ 1:02PM
@Alex Ziebart: But ALL classes DO make sense in that any race can become any of them.The only thing preventing any race from wielding the Light is faith. *Period*. Your faith in your ability to use the Light literally grants you the power to do so--regardless if you are living, dead, or undead, as we learned in Wrath. And as we have learned in Cataclysm, you do not necessarily have to believe in the Light to use it, either.The paladin is a class that is defined by being a just guardian--a vanquisher of evil, and through your faith in your ability to do this task, you are granted the power to do so. This is the base philosophy that ties ALL paladins together--that no matter if you believe in the Light, a twisted version of it, or the eye of the Earthmother, that ALL of them wish to drive evil out from the world, to make it a safe place for those who would do it good, and to ultimately be their stalwart protectors and warriors. I have a feeling that future paladin armor is going to reflect this--defense of the weak, protection of the innocent, and the vanquishing of evil.For Death-Knights, the only requirement is that the person in question can have experienced life and death--or rather, that their soul can be severed from their body.If you want to be a warrior, rogue, or hunter, you just have to pick up weapons and train with them (and as for rogues, size has nothing to do with stealth, as we saw in The Shattering. Tauren can make perfectly good rogues, it just requires the deceptive mindset). As for warlocks, mages, shaman and priests, one simply has to study the magic (and in the case of priests, believe in it. And in the case of shamans, have that trait of humility that allows them to be a tool of the elements). And while their respective cultures may frown upon learning such magics, there isn't anything at all that can stop any Draenei from suddenly taking lessons in Fel magic. It is extremely far-fetched-- and indeed, a lot of class combinations can seem far-fetched. But to say that no combination can ever make sense is to frankly deny that any combination can exist at all because in the long run, there is nothing genetically different that will prevent any race from going along any of those class paths.This goes on for all classes:
6-19-2011 @ 1:08PM
@RazionThat's great, except it isn't how Blizzard handled it. The tauren aren't paladins. They seriously are not paladins. Mechanically yes, but in the game, no. They have nothing to do with the Light. They're Sunwalkers and draw power from the sun, from nature. They're more like druids in plate than the paladins we see in the Alliance or even with the blood elves. Thus, the paladin aesthetic cannot be about the Light anymore -- the Light is not the glue holding the overall class theme together. There is no theme holding it together.So Blizzard could have kept it consistent, but they didn't do that. The reality we have has diluted what it means to be a paladin.
6-19-2011 @ 1:15PM
Paladins are still Light/Sun themed in general. While they can't make any sets specifically for paladins, they can make them holy looking. I mean, priests all worship various deities and I think Blizz has done a pretty good job keeping them looking good. With the introduction of Goblin Shaman, that class also now has a different tone depending on race, but the sets still look good.While I would love some set to look unique to some unique organization, I don't think this is the end of the paladin aesthetic and even if it is, I'm sorry, but we can't all be unique snowflakes.@Nosh: I could write an entire page of why that will not happen, not to even mention playerbase. Suffice to say, we will sooner see all classes start for all races.
6-19-2011 @ 1:29PM
One thing I will point out about the Blood Elves in regards to the aesthetic is that some of it (not all, just some) is based on before the 3rd War. Back then there were High Elf Paladins of the Silver Hand and a lot of that carries over into WoW. It's the reason I've seen given as to why Dwarves don't have their own Pally Rams, because they were Knights of the Silver Hand and thus keep the Traditions. Same with Sin'dorei when they were Queldorei and have the Charger as well, albeit Red barding for obvious reasons.I'd also argue that thanks to the Naaru sacrifice that the power the Elves pull from the Sunwell is Light based...but really then you're getting into philosophical debate.
6-19-2011 @ 1:36PM
@RazionWhile it's true that technically anyone of any race could become any class, there needs to be a likely hood that a significant portion of the population of that race would be that class before that combination becomes playable. It's one of the biggest arguments against Forsaken Paladins, sure, it's feasible that a Forsaken could not turn his back on the light and choose to bear the pain that constantly being in contact with it would bring as a Paladin, but very few Forsaken would actually do so, few enough that it would be silly to make Forsaken Paladins possible and see a bunch of them running around in game.
6-19-2011 @ 1:42PM
@AlexYou hit the nail on the head with the Paladin thing. It's a holy warrior of the light. So by altering that concept for the Blood Elves that pretty much went out the window. Gnomes don't have hunters and right now picturing a gnome fumbling around with a bow running after a pet doesn't sound like that great of an idea to me. Not a game changer in either way. Orc Paladin? Yeah not so much. I wouldn't feel too horrible about an Undead or Troll Paladin but Orc? No way. Sorry Orcs. For that matter the more you think about Goblin and shaman the less that should make sense. But they sneaked that in on us (not really) along with Dwarf warlocks. I would also like to see some kind of smallish buffed mechanic based on your alignment. I know it would be a pain but Paladins or priests who go and attack towns and gank lowbees should not get the same blessings as ones who do not. I understand that could be a whole slippery slope thing but really you should lose something, rep or honor. They could give out buffs for being neutral or evil for that matter. I'm probably in the vast minority on that one ;)
6-19-2011 @ 1:48PM
since we are talking about paladin sets here, am I the only one to die a little on the inside when I see a tauren wearing the blood knight armor? you know, that black and red level 60 pvp set, that looks like what blood elf paladin npcs wear.
6-19-2011 @ 1:49PM
@RazionWhile it's true that technically anyone of any race could choose to train themselves and become any class, there needs to be a significant portion of the population that chooses to do so before it becomes a playable combination. This is one of the biggest arguments against Forsaken Paladins, sure, your character could choose to not abandon the Light and deal with the excruciating pain that comes with being in constant contact with the Light necessary for being a Paladin, but very very few Forsaken would actually choose to do so, and it would be ridiculous to make it a playable combination and see far more Forsaken Paladins in game than would make any sense.
6-19-2011 @ 2:05PM
I get the whole race/class restrictions, but I don't get the reasoning. For instance - Gnomes. They can be both Warriors and Priests. Why not a Paladin? Isn't a Paladin basically a warrior priest?
6-19-2011 @ 2:08PM
@Alex Ziebart: True enough (to an extent), although it's a bit more complex a philosophy than that. The tauren's belief is based on druidic roots, this is true (and to an extent, shamanistic). The way Taurens are Sunwalkers exist in a way to cope out that lack of balance that they believe was not being filled--that being sun worship to reflect all the moon worship that was occurring. Although, does the belief on trying to extend that balance extend even further? At this point I'm only going into speculation, but I've always seen the tauren as trying to fill out those defensive and offensive roles that were not being filled in their eyes by the other half of the belief spectrum. This would allow them to take on that aspect of the Paladin, and allow them to utilize those beliefs in Mu'sha to exercise a different sort of balance to the world--by protecting what needs protecting, and vanquishing what needs vanquishing, as opposed to the healing they perceive the elves to do.That was always how I managed to link them more into being 'paladins' than druids, although it is entirely just my own reasoning. Certainly it hasn't been established by Blizzard, but it does help fill in that missing link between the classes that would allow them to be considered paladins. :)
6-19-2011 @ 2:37PM
Actually there ARE some Fosaken paladins, as seen in the ICC raid. Sure, it would be weird lore-like, but not imposibble. Also, it is known that blood knights aren't technically paladins either (Blodd elf "paladins") As far as I can remember, blood knights force the light to work with them, instead of just drawing the power from it. In-game, it would be unfitting to see such race/class combinations, but lore-like it makes perfect sense. Even in the RPG of WoW, you can be whatever, alabait of a good backstory. It is not the usual role of such race (say a Troll paladin) but it could be possible, just not so that can be implemented in-game.
6-19-2011 @ 2:39PM
The druid sets sometimes represented one race over another; the T5 Nordrassil set was clearly Night-E;f inspired while the T6 Thunderheart set was obviously Tauren. So clearly there's still the possibility for uniquely themed class sets, you just wont be each race each tier.
6-19-2011 @ 2:56PM
I find it funny people are defending Orc paladins and Draenei warlocks; but no one has mentioned how retarded Tauren rogues would be.@Noyou - dwarf warlocks make sense now; since there's a truce between the 3 dwarf factions ATM, the wildhammers brought shamanism to iron forge, and the dark iron brought warlocks. So lore wise, if you're playing a dwarf lock, you're racially a dark iron dwarf.
6-19-2011 @ 3:32PM
Two thoughts.  Trolls look awesome in paladin gear. Lore? Mood? Whatever. They just look awesome in that kit. There are plenty of Draenei warlocks. They're called Manari Eredar.
6-19-2011 @ 3:35PM
Dwarf warlocks make sense? I disagree. First of all I don't see how they let dark iron scum into IF without a full on civil war. Warlocks? My Dwarf shaman and hunter will have none of it. None! Just because Magni's daughter is dark iron by injection don't mean we have to accept it. Pfft.
6-19-2011 @ 3:59PM
I'm glad I'm not alone in lamenting the armor options of Paladins. As a Blood Elf, I always thought the Paladin sets looked like something appropriate for the Alliance (re: Care Bear), not something befitting the "Blood Knight" that I am.
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