Spiritual Guidance: Applying to a raiding guild, healing priest edition
by Dawn Moore 
Jun 20th 2011 at 8:00PM
Anyone who knows me moderately well will know that at any given time there is a 50/50 chance that I won't be in a guild.
Why? Because like Romeo searching for love, I am constantly trying to find the perfect guild for me. I'm an incredibly volatile person (in every sense of the word) and in the wrong environment I'm not a particularly happy person. If I'm not happy, I don't play well, and if I don't play well then I'm not bringing anything to the raid. Thus I'm always searching, always writing applications, and always redoing my ugly UI every time I crash land on a new server with bright eyes and hopes that I'm finally in the right place.
This month I am once again looking for a new guild and thought I'd let you guys in on the process. So if you've ever thought of taking your raids and PVE a little more seriously, I've got a lot of good information for you. If you also happen to be a healing priest, I have some specifics on what you'll need to be mindful of.
Applying to a guild 101
Most serious raiding guilds have a two part process to becoming a member. The first is a written application, the second is a trial run. I'll be talking almost exclusively about the application today. (If you'd like me to talk about the trial process, let me know in the comments. I can't help with it as much, since it's largely up to you, but there are still a few nuances to know as a priest.) In the application you're going to be answering questions to show what you know, what your credentials are, and who you are.
When you fill it out, take your time and take it seriously. You want to answer questions completely, thoughtfully, and clearly. Spelling and grammar counts, as well as the length of your responses. Your answers should show that you've taken your time and care about the quality of your response. Don't mind any snide remarks you initially receive about your application being a "wall of text." It's not a bad thing.
Some general tips.
- Make the text easy to read by breaking it up into paragraphs. If you can format (bold, underline, etc.), use those tools to your advantage. If your response will be read on a forum, pick a color that will be easy to read on the background of the page. Preview the color to make sure it's not straining.
- If you aren't a master of the English language, even when you take your time, provide a disclaimer about that at the beginning of your application. This will make people more patient with your grammatical mistakes.
- Remember that you're not above this task. All good raiders had to apply to a guild at some point, and even if you're the most famous priest on the server you have to pay your dues. Applying shows you take the guild and raiding seriously.
- In the words of the matron priest blog, Snarkcraft: don't lie. Everything in this game is easily tracked nowadays, so it's almost impossible to fake what you've done. Never bolster your credentials with falsities and don't tweak any skeletons you might have in your closet if they come up. Lies will always be found out; the raiding world is a lot more incestuous than you think.
- If you can, look at other applications to get an idea of the quality of application guilds expect. Some guilds will let you review other applications.
The most important part of your application will be proving that you know how your class works. Most guild applications will ask you specific questions to lead you in the right direction, like "explain your talent, reforging, gem, enchant, and glyph choices." Notice that you're being asked to explain why you took something, not what you've taken. Raiding guilds are looking for people who can think, and are able to explain why they make the decisions they have made. As a healer you should know there are a lot of right answers, since the healing demands of every raid team tend to vary. Be able to justify every choice you've made about your character, and if you can't, consider why you've made that choice at all. You might end up having to make some changes before you submit your application.
As a priest, the decisions you make about your secondary stats will be subject to the most critique. Make sure you know why you use the stats you do and be prepared to explain why you haven't taken something else. Do you use mastery because it gives the most throughput according to Elitist Jerks? Do you use haste past the 5th Renew tick for any special reason? What are your feelings on crit? There is a lot of flexibility for healing priests of either spec to go different ways on this topic and you'll need to be able to justify what you do.
One spec, two spec, three spec
Most guilds will expect you to be able to play two of your three specs, but as a healing priest you're going to find yourself in an awkward situation at times because we have two healing specs. Whether you want to or not, every serious raiding guild will want a healer that can play both holy and discipline, because not every fight is going to be suited to both specs. But only being able to be a healer makes you less versatile during farm content when less healing is required, so most guilds like for you to have a DPS offspec as well. So basically, guilds are going to want you to know how to play all three of your specs, even if you never end up changing out of your main spec.
So what do you do if you can't play all three specs? Learn how to play all three specs. Read up on how each spec works, and practice in 5-man dungeons. You don't need to be pro at all of them, but you should have the ability to become pro at all of them with practice. Once you've done that, apply and say that you're the best with your main spec, and familiar with playing the others. Personally, I'd prioritize becoming a baller with your alternative healing spec because Cataclysm is a lot more demanding on a healing priests versatility than previous expansions.
Tell them what you've done
Especially in world class guilds, credentials mean everything. Guilds want to know who you've raided with, when, and what you killed when you raided with whoever. Keep in mind that killing a fight on farm content doesn't mean anything to anyone; you need to tell a guild what fights you pounded your head against all night and eventually overcame.
If you don't have very good credentials, explain why. Maybe you've never been in an organized raiding guild and you've only pugged. Keep in mind that you can't go from 10-man pugs on Moon Guard (no offense to the Moon Guardians) to a main raid spot in Paragon. Apply to a guild that is a step up from your existing credentials.
As a priest, tell people what your role has been on any fights where your spec might have played a pivotal or impressive role in killing the boss. Did you tank heal Algalon as a disc priest? Were you the gong smashing holy priest on Heroic Atramedes? Did you dispel on Sinestra?
You must have logs
Logs, or parses, are the next most important part of your application to a guild and many guilds will not review an application without them. You can't not have them, so make some if you don't already have them. Screenshots from Recount will often suffice if you don't have the ability to parse.
As a priest and a healer, guilds will be screening you for more than just healing output. To assist them, direct their attention to specific fights where you feel you performed well. If you have a log where you topped the healing meters on a fight where priests are at disadvantage, show that. If you have a log from a fight with lots of avoidable damage where you took the least damage, show that. If on a night of progression you died the least, show that. Try to paint a picture of your strongest skills as a player with your logs.
Remember that while numbers aren't everything for a healer, having better numbers than other people in your logs will help to show that you are better than the people you currently raiding (which is why you're applying to this new guild in the first place).
Everything else
Everything else in the application is largely fluff -- even the part about your UI and keybindings. A lot of the questions are only there to make sure you're not completely inept. If your keybindings and UI look reasonably functional, no one will care what they are. Likewise, most people won't care about any of your biographical information, or your exact computer specifications.
What they will care about though is the answer to this question "why do we want you in our guild?" Make sure you answer it thoroughly, and not confuse it with "why do you want to join our guild." Tell your future guild what you have to offer as a player and a priest, and make sure it sounds unique. Showing up on time, never missing raids, and having a good attitude are a good start, but there are lots of other valuable traits in raiding to consider.
As a priest, try to break down what your job in a guild and raid will be. As a healer there are certain skills or traits that are more important to doing your jobs than others. Being willing to change specs is appealing since, as I said before, there are sometimes limitations to using a certain healing spec on a fight. Having good, upfront communication is another selling point, since you'll often need to communicate directions in the middle of battle. When you consider all the cooldown abilities we have, this is especially vital.
That's about it. If you'd like to see some examples of good applications, stalk around various top guild websites and look for sites that have public application forums. If you have any additional information for your peers, let's hear it. And if you've got a second, cross your fingers for me. I'll need it.
Spiritual Guidance has the inside line on pre-raid gear, valor point and raid gear, and healing strategies for bosses such as Atramedes and Chimaeron. Newcomer to the priest class? Look into Discipline Priest 101 and Holy Priest 101.
Filed under: Priest, (Priest) Spiritual Guidance
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
That one Joey Jun 20th 2011 8:20PM
On the 2 occasions that I applied on my priest to a semi-hardcore raiding guild, I was asked "What do you do that others of your class don't?"...my answer? "Mind control mobs in VP off the ledge to their doom...and make dps wipe on the elevator boss in BWD."
I got a few lol's and actually it was a deciding factor on my acceptance. Guilds like applicants with personality.
MightyMuffin Jun 20th 2011 8:46PM
This.
As both having been an applicant and also having been an officer who oversaw applications, I have a bit of experience with looking over applications. When you are going through hard recruitment, like we had to right before Cataclysm started, it gets really boring reading two or three applications critically. If there is personality or "good" humor in the application, I will laugh and will get a better picture of the player, not just the character he/she plays.
Remember, the bullet point about lying holds true even for your personality. Don't hold that back from the guild, show them who you are whenever you can. If you're a shy guy, that's okay - people will figure out (I'm one of those types; it takes me a long time to adjust to new people until I know them very well). So don't worry about whether they will accept you, that's the whole part of applications. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose - just remember that there are a lot of guilds and a lot of servers you can try out. Keep looking until you find that place where you feel at home.
Terrant Jun 20th 2011 8:41PM
"Keep in mind that you can't go from 10-man pugs on Moon Guard (no offense to the Moon Guardians) to a main raid spot in Paragon."
Oh, it is ON!
Actually, Moon Guard has such a large population that it is about average for raiding. If you want to pick on a server for raiding, name one of the smaller RP servers or the many ghost-town PvP servers.
RedderTheEmoDK Jun 20th 2011 8:49PM
That seems like a lot of work to find your future ex-guild.
For me, I see no reason to pay $15 a month to get many of the hassles of a job with none of the pay.
sullyXXX Jun 21st 2011 6:28AM
I totally agree. I guess some people are serious enough that it's a necessity (Paragon, etc), but for most guilds, I don't think huge parses and stuff should be necessary. I remember the days when you could link a few achis instead of parses... I hated those days, usually ended up being a vicious circle of not getting the achi because you didn't have the achi, but they seem fantastic in comparison to this schlep!
eel5pe Jun 21st 2011 10:55AM
It's all about what you want to get out of the game. Some people take their hobbies more seriously than other people, but that doesn't make it their job. Guilds who ask for applications generally put a lot of time and thought into their play, and merely ask that people who want to play with them demonstrate a similar level of commitment. If that's not for you, fair enough.
Katherine Jun 21st 2011 8:23PM
While the process Dawn has outlined is much more arduous than the process I've gone through for any guild, I still don't want to be taking "It's just a game bro" types to my casual progression raids. Don't criticise the methods people use to ensure they can enjoy the game with like-minded players.
Jakob Jun 20th 2011 9:47PM
Thank you for the great article
Wynn Jun 21st 2011 1:23AM
I don't know if I'm the only one, but I cringed when I read your introductory paragraph, Dawn. You kind of portrayed yourself as the stereotypical flake that's too busy tryng to find the perfect guild to help form it. It's a simple thing, really. Guilds that are doing great and couldn't be better aren't actively recruiting.
If a guild is recruiting, it either anticipates it'll get worse and is trying to prevent it, or is already in decline (which might still mean great raiding, it might just be a great guild undergoing periods of high turnover). And the fact is, active roster raiding positions as soon as you join won't present themselves in a raiding guild that is the ideal raiding environment unless you're obscenely lucky or madly skilled. It's almost statistically impossible.
Many, many guilds are sub-optimal environments that, with a few good applicants that don't bail, could become great environments. Most of those don't get a chance, because of applicants that come with your mindset of seeking the perfect fit rather than the mindset of working with what's there and making it grow into the best fit.
It's part of why I stopped playing, and with the way Firelands looks, I might not be coming back. Blizzard can't really fix what's broken, which is the community... and the content isn't nearly good enough to overpower the stench anymore, not with all the competition (current and upcoming), and with a guild leveling system that's flat-out punitive to up-and-coming guilds.
Dawn Moore Jun 20th 2011 10:04PM
You may interpret it as that if you like. Obviously there is a whole story to it, and if you draw conclusions on a paragraph then you do. I've been judged off of far less. It is what it is.
MightyMuffin Jun 20th 2011 11:45PM
I hear you Wynn, on the fact that finding the perfect guild is slim to none. However, I found mine back in Wrath, and my guild was my first "serious" guild I ever joined. I got lucky to have found this group. We don't necessarily want to get to end-game, heroic level stuff (although if we did, we'd be overjoyed), but we just want an easy-going pace where friends can enjoy the experience.
That's how most of my guild experience has been, at least in the three guilds I spent the most of my time playing. In all three, people came and went, which meant I had to come and go until now. I've settled down and probably will quit WoW if this group falls apart. They are my true friends (not saying previous guildees weren't, but its been a looong time since I've talked to any of them).
I was blessed by the Light to find my guild, and I hope Dawn finds her "true love." But to your point about fit, you're right Wynn - bailing guilds is not good, and only reflects the timidness of the player. However, I don't think Dawn is that flaky. I think Dawn is just like anyone else - human (though secretly, she probably is a deity with supernatural powers). No one wants to wait around, or put in the effort only to have it fall apart. Plus, I wouldn't doubt that Dawn has attempted this before and it did not work out well for her. That's part of the adventure. The WoW community is a varied one, but that is what makes up this game. Finding the "diamond in the rough" is more of the epic adventure than downing Heroic Sinestra or getting to the top 5% of PvP teams.
I probably romanticized this waaaay too much, but what can you do when you're reviewing English Lit notes for a summer exam tomorrow? Bottom line - Wynn, you left because of the community; I stayed to play WoW because of the community (at least, the ones I play with). Dawn has her reasons for leaving guilds, and we should encourage her to find the right guild. That is what causes the community to go down - the name-calling, the self-righteous/holier-than-thou attitude (along with the fact that it is a part of the Internet...and who can control that monster?) Wynn, your opinions are not unfounded - even I have problems and can be unruly to the community. But maybe you're in Dawn's shoes - you haven't found that group, that one place where people just made you feel at home, at ease. Where you had fun unlike any time you've ever played WoW...and even after 2 years and several long hiatuses of not playing WoW, you just come back, knowing the guild would accept you and be your friend. Or maybe you have and you had your fun and have since moved on. That's great! Okay...nostalgia is setting in...I need to focus on the studying.
TL;DR - Wynn is right, but Dawn is not a flake. Hoping to see Dawn (and maybe Wynn, if she returns to WoW ever) find a guild that brings them life to playing WoW. The epic adventure awaits - will you join Dawn and find the "diamond in the rough together?" Ok...now being melodramatic and trying to make this into a movie or game...heh...
Wynn Jun 21st 2011 1:25AM
@Dawn Moore
I did not mean to come off TOO harsh, so I apologize if I did. I am by no means pegging you as the type, I'm saying that from the limited amount of information you chose to share, it's what it came off as to me. I know that some guild environments can get flat-out toxic, and I obviously don't know your particular situation.
@ MightyMuffin: I actually had a great guild, back in TBC. We weren't all that, but got to Sunwell before WotLK launch and were damn proud of it. I was with them most of my WoW "career," but then WotLK came, and somehow the mindsets of several members shifted. They got ambitious, and started leaving for greener pastures when the loot wasn't coming THEIR way fast enough (and I stress 'their' because we were farming Naxx and 2 drakes within 6-7 weeks of launch). Things just fell apart due to flake recruits that just wanted purples and left as soon as they got their fill to find their dream guild (that wouldn't have taken them with their greens and lack of experience).
Ever since, I've simply not found the quality of people that used to populate that guild. Many of them quit, some scattered to other guilds... I honestly didn't feel like any guild on my server fit me anymore, so I decided to transfer to a RP server, pick that up instead. The few raiding guilds there had the worst attitudes ever, though... since most of the server wasn't there for progression raiding, they'd lord their gearscores over the "peasants" and boast in Trade and the like as if their (very mediocre) progression was a big deal. Big fish in a small pond, basically.
So, I ended up transfering my main and raiding with a US top 500 guild, and hated that too. Was just a number in a crowd of loot hounds that'd just as soon stab you between the ribs as help you if it means adding 10 points to their 6300+ gearscore to move up a spot in the US rankings. When Cata launched, I went back to the RP server, did that until I decided that playing an MMO without a guild just isn't worth it.
At any rate, sorry if I came off too strong. The point, and I -did- have one, was to say that applying to a guild should involve more than trying to be a model app, showing you can feed the parsers, and having purples you probably had to shiv someone for in your last guild. There should be a certain degree of commitment to making things work, rather than expecting a pre-packaged dream guild to fall on your lap. There's no such thing unless you win the guild lottery.
Sorcha Jun 21st 2011 8:08AM
Sorry Dawn, but your defensive attitude really puts me on edge when I read your stuff. Hopping from guild to guild because you can't find what you want does, indeed, make you look like a flake.
To people reading this who are looking into guilds: please be extremely careful about who you choose to join and who you choose to leave. 8 guilds in one year is an instant no in mine. Heck half that number probably would be unless there's a really good reason for it.
Trisnic Jun 21st 2011 8:21AM
I agree Wynn that first paragraph was aweful. Maybe the situations were bad and not as portrayed or maybe something else. There are certainly toxic situations. Anyone who is finding guilds like this over and over I wonder how hard they are really searching for a good environment.
Still, one thing raiding guilds do not want is a guild hopper. There is just no point bringing someone in who will play with you for a month and then move on to continue to find their perfect guild. Granted, in the trial period if they aren't fitting they should move on, but maybe look into why they found a guild with a bad fit in the first place.
As someone who has done a lot of recruitment I can tell you right now - if you jump around a lot this will harm your prospect for finding a good guild. If the guild gets a lot of applications there is just no point in bringing someone in who has been in 15 guilds in the last year.
Dawn Moore Jun 21st 2011 9:10AM
Okay, since you guys are having a field day with this, let me explain some things.
(This is for a moment going to come off as very casual v. hardcore, but I'm not going to be able to avoid that without going off on a long tangent, so just go with me for a bit here and you can call me a stuck up bitch about it later.)
I've raided in everything from top 25 US guilds to sub 3000 ranked guilds. The level of progression I found I am most happy with is around 50-150 US. I like this level of progression for the pace at which things get done for the hours put in. However, at this level of seriousness there is one goal: to kill bosses. Liking the people you raid with at this level is something most people place on a second priority. People who play in these guilds aren't there to make friends, they are there to kill bosses and get whatever sense of accomplishment they get out of killing bosses.
This in turn makes guilds at my level extremely unstable. Guilds like the ones I raid in explode and dissolve EVERY content patch because if bosses aren't dying, there is nothing holding the guild together. Just read the R&D forums everyday for an entire tier and you'll see tons of threads about this.
Anyway, my constant guildlessness has more to do with this aspect of raiding than it does with me guild hopping like you guys have all assumed. I'm an extremely loyal raider, and in most cases I am content to go down with the ship. Unfortunately, going down with the ship often puts you in the middle of very very hostile environments, where people are at the end of their wits with one another and arguing has become the norm. When guilds go sour like this, so does my ability to perform. I simply cannot play in a hostile environment because it makes me anxious and physically sick with stress.
So when this happens to a guild, and I am certain there is no fixing it by me or anyone, I will quietly speak with the guild leader about my concerns, and tell him that I am going to start looking for a new guild. Cues that a guild is not going to come back include... 2-5 people quitting in a weeks time, a major violation of the guild charter by officers/guild leader with no remorse, or only half your raid showing up at raid time for more than two weeks.
The only time I will bail on a guild suddenly is when I am on the receiving end of abuse or harassment. In those situations I stay for as long as I can put up with the abuse and when I can take it anymore, I quit. This usually comes after trying to talk to officers about my problems.
So what do I mean when I say I'm looking for the perfect guild? Aside from having a top 200 US progression rank, I only have 2 requirements
1) A guild that does not harass or abuse me more or worse than it harasses and abuses it's other members
3) A guild that isn't showing signs of being on course to destruction
Believe it or not, it's hard to get both. And thus I am always between guilds. Either because I've left because I was getting harassed, or because the guild was falling apart on its own and I needed to find some place else to go.
If that's flaky, then I'm flaky.
Dawn Moore Jun 21st 2011 9:11AM
2*
I'm going to bed now -_-
Trisnic Jun 21st 2011 10:30AM
Thanks for clarifying to us Dawn. Obviously guilds fall apart all the time and no one should stay in a situation where they are getting harassed. It sounds like you were right to leave those guilds (although guilds do have bad weeks, it happens).
Overall I think your post offers some good examples for those who will be filling out applications and obviously those at the higher levels move around more, that's expected. Good job on understanding the application process in general.
I posted only to point out that, as someone who does recruit and follows guild leadership discussions all the time, guilds don't like guild hoppers for the most part, that should be known to anyone applying to any guild. It can make the difference.
To get into it a bit more, the top guild on my server is in the US 70s. They've been together since TBC downing bosses and getting server first kills. They have a core similar to what they've had since TBC. That to me is an example of a good guild. They have a great server rep and they deserve it. They don't have a lot of drama. It IS possible to be highly progressed and still be friends with the people there. IMO a guild that falls apart at every patch in fiery drama is not a good guild even if they progressed well, they are a failed experiment. I see them every content patch, they pop up like weeds, progress fast, and then fall apart because they don't have solid leadership. Everyone has different examples of what a good guild is though.
Talusazaroth Jun 20th 2011 9:54PM
When are we suppose to ask what the guilds going to do for me?
It seems like a bad idea to fill out an application for a guild only to get in and have no one who wants to let you do any thing but heal ever. The idea of filling out an application to join a guild who is going to want me to spend what amounts to a part time job doing what they want seems akin to me asking for some one to wash their cars, mow the lawn, get their grocery and be a general grunt for them with out getting a pay check.
If anything the guild should be asking what they can do for the priest to get a good priest who will heal for them and help make their raiding possible. If i am going to be applying for a spot in a guild like i would a job, i should be looking for the job/guild that has what i need first, and the guild/job second.
jude_rulz Jun 20th 2011 10:45PM
You are right to say that in an application you are going to ask the guild right away what they are going to do for you ~ That often gets translated to "When & where will I get loot" ~ Not necessarily what you are trying to imply, but sometimes it comes off that way.
When you are applying for a guild, you should make it clear if you want to play shadow, holy or disc ~ The ever present question "Would you be willing to respec for the raid" will come up, but if you make it clear that you are strong shadow with maybe a disc offspec, the guild should bring you in with those expectations. Are you never going to play disc (or even holy) possibly not, but when you make it clear as an applicant, you have more of a chance to be doing what you want to be doing once you get the raid invite.
Dadruidess Jun 20th 2011 10:51PM
A raiding guild that will ask for an application will get you a spot in a raid that will hopefully progress. It will get you gear and most importantly, fun. With time, you will get to know nice people and all of these things are what I expect from a guild. Those things are what you hope for when you want to join a guild, and when those requirements aren't met (the raid spot comes in last), then I know it's time to go look elsewhere. Priority may vary depending on what you enjoy most in the game and why you are playing it.
Things I think are good for asking are the "are there guild events / What kind of guild events do you have?" kind of questions.
The guild bonuses (guild level, flasks, free gems, etc.) are just details, but that might just be me.