Skip to Content
6-23-2011 @ 2:09PM
I've noticed that Blizzard is getting a lot of negative feedback over the Journal. It's mostly complaints that they're "catering to casuals and bads," oddly enough. I don't really see why people have an issue with the information being in-game; after all, wouldn't you just be alt-tabbing to Wowhead or YouTube to check out a strategy anyway? It's already there, Blizzard is just making the information more accessible.
6-23-2011 @ 2:13PM
Apparently "catering to casuals and bads" means "making information that is hard to find for new players incredibly easy to find for all players".I tend to ignore all doomsaying. It makes the game better.
6-23-2011 @ 2:25PM
Plus, "the bads" know about the fire the boss puts on the ground after the first wipe. Blizzard telling them about it won't stop them from standing in it in the first place. It won't get people to pay attention and watch for emotes, announcements, and cast bars. It won't get people to help interrupt an ability, even if the raid leader has asked them to help interrupt it several times already. It won't fix a bad rotation that causes a highly geared player to do 7k DPS. So yeah, any and all whining about this "catering" to these players is just silly.
6-23-2011 @ 2:17PM
Plus you do not have to use it. I agree with you as well. People would just prefer to go to another place outside of game for info.
6-23-2011 @ 2:22PM
guess you don't read the comments about this then, its that progressions guilds like Paragon etc enjoy finding out the tacs and abilities on their own, thats what they love. With this theres no competitive world or realm first as everyone knows the tacs right from the get go. imo this should only have info on a boss after its been killed once per realm or at least by the top PvE competitive guilds. Because world first Chogal or Sinestra kill won't be as impressive if they didn't have to figure out the abilities etc on their own.
6-23-2011 @ 2:28PM
@vereonisYou do realise Paragon and other like-minded guilds are NOT being forced to use this feature right? They can just not look, y'know?Oh, and also, in the Dreamhack Paragon Live Raid, the Paragon guy co-commentating was saying that their aim as a guild, and what they all generally found most enjoyable, was getting bosses down as fast as possible to get as much loot as they could in as little game time as they could. So I'd think something like this would be GOOD for such a guild.:)
6-23-2011 @ 2:27PM
and saying "just don't look at it" is stupid, if you're going for realm/world first you're not going to pass up the Journal, and one guy will look at, and you really think hes gonna sit there knowing wtf to do while everyone else is trying to figure it out and doing it wrong.I like the concept of this, for ease of ability info, but not as soon as new content is released.Though saying this, the hard core guilds have already killed everything on the PTR, and I'm pretty sure the journal doesn't contain HC mode info, I'm just saying what the hardcore PvE's point of view is.
Because they feel obligated to complain about every second that any other player can shave off to do things in their own clunky way.I recall people bitching about the default quest objective markers in Wrath, even though there was an add-on that would do the same thing. Clunkier.I recall people bitching about the RDF. Now they bitch in trade about long queue times.I recall people bitching about hardmodes and how they're reusing content to stretch out the life of end-game without making new encounters.Now, I see the same crowd bitching about how the quests are confusing, being too lazy to form groups in LFG/trade chat, and never even down the regular mode end bosses.
vereonis:Their arguments don't hold water. All they have to do to experience the content on their own and work out the strats and abilities themselves is...not click the button.
6-23-2011 @ 2:31PM
@vereonisI kind of see what you mean, however, top raiding guilds that want to keep that competitive edge can simply not use the journal. Personally I think it will be an improvement, particularly in order to allow more casual raiding guilds to see content while it's still relatively relevant.-X
6-23-2011 @ 2:35PM
Because tracking sites like MMO-champion for the next week full-time after a new tier is released for updates/clarification on boss abilities is a productive way to spend your time than finding out about an encounter straight from the developers' manual?Not to mention, this isn't a virtual reality brain-prober that dumps information into your brain. There will be people out there that won't read strats from Wowhead that won't read the boss encounter journals, either. I, for one, is grateful for the fact that I won't have to occupy my second screen with my browser.Any opinion against this feature is a shallow argument. Furthermore, saying "Don't read it if you don't want it" is a perfectly reasonable antithesis. They're not banned from developing their own streamlined tactic, or being ingenious in how they handle the encounter.
6-23-2011 @ 2:37PM
The funny thing is the top guilds are all over Beta and the PTR looking for any competitive edge and often times taking advantage of any early bugs or design flaws. This is an awesome new feature. I don't think it's going to have an effect on the top 10% of guilds out there. It's going to make randoms and pugging easier for the 80% of the playerbase that chooses those routes. It's going to help small guilds be able to down content that they might not have been otherwise. Is it going to take a middle of the road guild and make it into a top tier one? I don't think so. Enjoy it or don't, it's your $15 a month. But don't hate on anyone else how they want to spend theirs ;)
6-23-2011 @ 2:43PM
@VereonisYou don't think top guilds like paragon run the content on the PTR? That's a hell of a lot more information than will be obtained simply by finding out what a boss mechanic does. Which is also available readily on WoW sites. So you don't think Paragon reads those sites either? If not wake up and smell the coffee.
Honestly, I do see the "top tier raider's" point of view on this.Top 10 guilds, historically, haven't been able to look at videos or written strategies on wowhead while working on a boss. In fact...until they have a boss down, they've tended to be a bit secretive about the fights so as not to give any clues to competing guilds about them.This means that the race to world first has always been a combination of both puzzle-solving/learning bosses and having the skill to put that knowledge to use once you've figured out the tricks. With the encounter journal, the first part of that race has been drastically changed. It's not changed to the point of having tankspot explain things to you, but it does mean those guilds don't have to spend any time figuring out "why" someone just got one-shot, etc.Surely, we can understand why someone who's been dedicated to this part of the game could be put off by having it all but disappear, right?Obviously, this doesn't excuse anyone who's bitching about how "bads and casuals" are ruining everything, because the encounter journal does have it's place and makes sense to include. I just do see the other side of it.But yeah, this doesn't change anything for the vast majority of players except for the source and accuracy of where they get boss information.
6-23-2011 @ 2:46PM
I happen to agree with Veronis. While I like the idea of having this available, I can understand the concerns of the cutting/bleeding edge raiders who would prefer to not use this but cannot afford to do so as they might lose their top 5/10/50/100 spot to someone else who does use it and saves an hour or two a week.I could see where Blizzard might could have compromised and restricted the tool such that abilities, even if the heroic-only ones, weren't displayed until they had been seen or the boss had been killed on that realm. But even that would still give an unfair advantage to whoever the #2 guilds on Ensidia/Paragon/etc's servers are.Almost what they need is an achievement that would show that no one in the raid had looked at the boss' journey entry prior to the kill for measuring the best-of-the-best for world first - though you could have someone accidentally ruin it for a guild if someone in a competing guild linked them an ability out of the journey and they didn't realize it.Now, if the guys who are complaining are the #s 5-10 guilds or the standard "anything that isn't 6 weeks of wiping on a new boss for 5 hours a night 4 nights a week isn't hardcore enough for me", they can go STFU and DIAF.
6-23-2011 @ 2:49PM
Maybe making the journal feature an option through the Interface. That way you could turn it off if you didnt want to use it.
6-23-2011 @ 2:53PM
There are so many forums out there with this type of information already. Hardcore gamers hit those places all the time to get the details - and they are likely not to stop either as places like elitist jerks and tank spot will have far more detailed strats on boss fights than this feature.
6-23-2011 @ 2:56PM
I just don't get it. If anything, this simply changes the... So-called "epoch" of the bleeding-edge content. If they're 1000% dedicated to downing the boss before anybody else at all times, then they have a powerful tool that's made by the developers to help them achieve that. If anything, this is nothing more than cutting the track short so the runners can finish faster.At the same time, the benefit to the general populace once this hits the live servers is phenomenal, simply because the information they provide is 100% accurate and readily available.While I can see the world-first guilds being disappointed for not being able to find out the abilities first-hand, knowing the abilities doesn't mean every person in the raid can execute it to complete the encounter.
6-23-2011 @ 2:59PM
@jakemaheuThis is likely a case of a very vocal minority, or should I say, hardcore raiders.
6-23-2011 @ 3:03PM
The only concern, and I think this is legitimate, is that some encounters are completely unknown to certain guilds, and they like the challenge of figuring stuff out. This relates mostly to the top 1-2 guilds on each server, so it's a small amount of people, but those people can be vocal.
First time? A confirmation email will be sent to you after submitting.
Members enter your username and password.
Enter your AOL or AIM screenname and password.
Please keep your comments relevant to this blog entry. Email addresses are never displayed, but they are required to confirm your comments.
When you enter your name and email address, you'll be sent a link to confirm your comment, and a password. To leave another comment, just use that password.
To create a live link, simply type the URL (including http://) or email address and we will make it a live link for you. You can put up to 3 URLs in your comments. Line breaks and paragraphs are automatically converted — no need to use <p> or <br /> tags.