Raid Rx: Answering the raid composition question
by Matt Low 
Jun 24th 2011 at 8:00PM
I received an email from a player who had a few questions about raid composition.
Alright DG, let's break this down and go over the different pros and cons in enforcing class compositions.When and how much does a raid's healing class composition matter? Is there still a distinction between raid and tank healers?
I'm a holy paladin with a secure spot in a ten-man raiding team. I have noticed my raid leader bending over backwards to avoid bringing a second healing paladin along. In fact, they tried hard to avoid bringing two of any healing class. The raid leader would rather search trade for pickup players than bring a second player of the same class from the guild. In your opinion, is this attitude justified or is it a relic of the wrath era? I feel bad boxing out certain players from the main raid team, even on nights when we're one or two healers short.
To provide context, we can take out most of the normal mode bosses on a good week. We'll most likely transition to Firelands instead of present raiding heroics when the time comes.
Thanks,
DG
For the content that your raiding guild is working on, raid composition isn't that big of a priority. This isn't the age of The Burning Crusade or Wrath where healing classes had specific roles. Cataclysm has helped equalize the playing field somewhat. It's the whole "bring the player not the class" mentality. Every class has the tools and capability to cover the raid or cover the tanks effectively. So, it's up to the players to see what they're good at and what they prefer to do. Some healers prefer staying on one tank only. Others enjoy the challenge of looking after everybody. Granted, it feels to me that some classes have a slight edge over others depending on what is being healed. But that's a topic for another time. I would say that raid composition matters when you get to increasingly challenging content. Things like mana cooldowns and defensive cooldowns can affect the ease and difficulty of the bosses you're taking on.
One reason I can think of as to why your raid leader is extremely reluctant to mix classes is to maximize gear drops. Two paladins in a raid? That means twice as much plate gear needs to drop to outfit you both. The thing is that this would only be applicable after a gear reset (like a new expansion or a new tier). Really though, at this stage of the game that isn't even necessary. Going to PUGs to solve healing problems with the raid seems to be an extraordinary solution.
As a healing leader, the only time I would make the call to my raid leader to not bring a healer from the guild is if we specifically needed some type of buff that we didn't have in the raid. This buff would have to be a make-or-break type of deal. It would be on the level of a difference between a 2% wipe or a kill. Now if your raid leader isn't bringing guild healers because said leader doesn't have confidence in them, that's one thing. Maybe the healers aren't good enough for the stuff your raid is working on and he's rolling the dice on outside healers. Who knows?
How to change their mind
This is tough. If leaders have been doing something traditionally for a long time (such as not diversifying healing classes and bringing them to raids), then it'll be difficult to change their mind. It would be easier if your raid leader was a healer, as he would have a better understanding of the capabilities of each class.
I'd say to bring the topic up to them in private. Find out exactly what is preventing them from relying on guild healers. Is it a class problem? Is it an experience problem? Are some of the healers experiencing high lag that's affecting their ability to heal and do stuff? Is it the belief that certain healers can't work out the raid mechanics? This is a problem that has to be isolated because it's really going to cut into your guild from a morale standpoint. It won't be long before talk of "Why is the boss bringing healers outside of the guild into the raid?" starts permeating.
Heck, I'd be surprised if that kind of talk hasn't happened already. Actually, if it has happened, that's good. It gives you a great opening to start the conversation and figure out what is motivating the raid leader to make those calls in the first place. If your raid leader doesn't feel comfortable or confident in the existing guild healers, that's something that needs to be addressed internally. Find out why that's the case and what needs to be done to address it (even if that includes letting players go or sitting them on the sidelines and looking for other healers who can deliver what is needed). Ideally, those healers can be coached and have their mistakes fixed quickly.
If the reason the raid leader is pulling PUGs in because they're not sure about the actual capabilities of the different classes, then it sounds to me like they could use a bit of education or experience. There is absolutely nothing wrong with bringing two of the same healing class to a raid. Bringing three might be a bit of a stretch though (unless they're all priests).
Anyway, that was a solid question to ask. I hope my thoughts have helped.
Need advice on working with the healers in your guild? Raid Rx has you covered. Send your questions about raid healing to mattl@wowinsider.com. For less healer-centric raiding advice, visit Ready Check for advanced tactics and advice for the endgame raider.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Raid Rx (Raid Healing)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
pic Jun 24th 2011 8:14PM
I think all of this is wrong because thats why what else everyone is wondering thinking.
Twill Jun 24th 2011 8:53PM
lol wut?
Like ... seriously. What are you trying to say.
o.0
Sunaseni Jun 24th 2011 9:06PM
"Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
That's what this reminds me of.
mord Jun 24th 2011 9:14PM
That's why what I think your comment has left everyone else thinking wondering all of this is wrong.
Tom Jun 25th 2011 1:31PM
I think he's trying to say:
You'd take a pug instead of a guildy if to get a buff which makes the difference between a 2% wipe and a kill!?!?
Seems to me man up and wipe another time or so with your friends before killing the boss rather than ditch a friend in favour of a random with a buff.
Austin Jun 24th 2011 8:18PM
Woohoo priests. But seriously my guild leader is doing the same thing and so are alot on my server, but it's exclusively for pallies. Def a leftover from Wotlk.
VSUReaper Jun 24th 2011 9:53PM
I know my views are a lil old fashioned, but priests and Druids are great all around healers. No issues with bringing more than 1, just as long as it's not 2 disc priests: then you might have issues with throughput or weakened soul debuffs.
In my experience, shamans can tank heal, but not as well as everyone else. They are also a lil better suited for raid healing.
Paladins (and this is where I'm confident I'm going to be told I'm wrong) are best at single target healing. They can heal the raid, but they require people to bunch or at least be close. When push comes to shove though, I think a pLadin excels in tank healing, and if done properly (I.e. minor help from other healers -lifeblooms, earth shield and occasional chain heal, pw: shield and pom) they can heal 2 tanks with no trouble.
All that being said, any healer that is geared for the situation, spec'd, and played properly can handle any situation handed to them. It's all a matter of the person behind the avatar.
VSUReaper Jun 24th 2011 9:56PM
Btw, sorry for typos: posting on an iPhone on a comment system that is not mobile device friendly makes it difficult to catch typos.
>.
B1ue Jun 25th 2011 10:01AM
@VSUReaper
I don't see where you're wrong. You hit it exacly right, for paladins to heal 3+ targets with a single cast, they require those three people to be close together. All healing classes benefit from bunched players, but paladins depend on it. And their aoe heals aren't much to write home about, compared to a druid or a shaman.
You're also right that they can muddle trhough. I find spreading out holy shock/word of glory casts works well when I'm healing up a group, especially if I get http://www.wowhead.com/spell=88821 to proc. With the bounce heal via beacon and http://www.wowhead.com/spell=20140, there's a lot of healing thrown around. All that said, its not the best use of my abilities if there's any other option available.
priestessaur Jun 25th 2011 2:58PM
For much of Cata, our 10m healing comp has been Shaman, Priest, Druid. All three classes handle the tank healing just fine. Druids are strong tank healers, as are Disc priests. Shamans with a good chunk of mastery and crit can belt out the same big heals that a pally can. In fact, we kept the priest holy on raid and the druid and shaman cover the tanks. It is more about the fact that the shaman knows how to tank heal and the priest is more comfortable with the holy spec over disc than it is forcing people into class rolls. Play to the strengths of the player, not the class, and it will benefit the whole raid in the long run.
Luke Jul 30th 2011 4:37AM
I've never played a Paladin past 29 (and never will) so I can't comment on Paladins other than affirming what you've said mirrors everything I've heard from the community. Now as for Disc Priests on the other hand, I have to disagree, (being one of those).
My stance is usually that diversification is best, but having two disc priests isn't actually a bad thing. Even if we assume both disc priests in a raid have identical talents and glyphs all those players have to do is communicate with one another. It's true that the Disco model is one of absorbs and damage to healing, but they do have powerful direct heals (penance / flash heal) and powerful AOE healing.
I do however fully agree with your final statement:
"All that being said, any healer that is geared for the situation, spec'd, and played properly can handle any situation handed to them. It's all a matter of the person behind the avatar."
Matthew Jun 24th 2011 8:53PM
The only true negative I can think of is double disc priesting, but one of them can be asked to go holy. Or just be mindful of which groups you bubble.
Katherine Jun 25th 2011 8:22PM
People still bubble the entire raid? Maybe if your entire raid is druids that are giving you all their innervates...
Luke Jul 30th 2011 4:52AM
@Katherine
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=47537/rapture
In addition to all of the other talents and glyphs a disco priest has to be pretty bad at what they are doing to run out of mana.
Ragen Jun 24th 2011 10:56PM
I'd like to point out that even with two disc priests bubbles are still on the costly end, and you won't have trouble bubbling the entire raid if you double up. The weakened soul debuff is now a non issue as well.
I would say I agree Matt. Pugging outside the guild to fill out a slow when there is (as far as we are aware of) good players in the guild is silly given the reasons. I would take two Resto Shammys over one pugger any day of the week.
Cyno01 Jun 24th 2011 11:11PM
Were running into a similar, but not exactly the same problem. Our raid comp is rather bizzare, somehow no mages or DKs, one lock, no priests... Were running into issues trying to decide between BRez's, Replenishment and Hero.
Healer A, Holy Paly.
Healer B, Resto Druid or Shamy
Healer C, myself, Resto Shamy, but PREFERABLY my rogue when we have another healer.
Healer D, new this week, another Holy Paly. But player also has a priest but needs gear.
Weve been running very sucessfully with Healer A, Healer B on his shamy and me on mine, but were lacking replenishment and only have one Brez. We ran this week with the new Healer D, and things went alright, but we seemed to be having some mana issues, maybe because of the lack of the second mana stream/tide...
So, if i can stay on my Rogue, what is our optimum comp? Holy paly and druid or shamy, and paly or priest.
Janaan Jun 24th 2011 11:48PM
Honestly, I think that the answer lies not in class-comps, but in what your players play best. The fact is that since blizzard has pretty much done away with the "bring the class" mentality, all healing classes/specs CAN be just as good as the others. There may be some differences on various fights, and of course the classes will never be 100% even in everyone's mind, everything being equal. HOWEVER, any difference in power between the classes is nothing compared to the difference that is caused by people playing the class they like and are best at. This is what I'd start out with. IF things are really not working out, of course feel free to mess around with the healing comp if you think that would help. But I'd start out with everyone playing what they want to play most.
Maccabeus Jun 25th 2011 1:10AM
Personally, I think that diversifying your healer comp is an ideal goal, but if a guildy can perform at an appropriate level, it doesn't hurt to double up on a couple healers. We ran with two resto druids and a holy pally for a while, and we did just fine.
eel5pe Jun 25th 2011 2:44AM
I must respectfully disagree with you here Matt. I'm not going to speak about the relative merits of bringing a PuG versus a guildie, but I definitely want to address bringing two Paladin healers, from the perspective of both a raid leader and a HPally main.
While generally the raid healers are interchangable and excel at multiple roles, I (and many others) would argue that Paladins make inferior AoE and group healers in 10 mans. The fact is our two main AoE heals are rather poor because they are both position-dependent and not on-demand, with HR on a 30s, soon to be 20s cooldown, and LoD requiring HP. In addition, in ten man raiding (as DG was discussing) LoD suffers because it's much less likely to reach target cap. A lot of time my AoE strategy devolves into bombing single target heals on the raid. I feel like a two-pally set up would struggle on fights where there is a large amount of non-avoidable raid damage (fights like Council, Maloriak, Nef, etc). Not impossible- but definitely struggle.
Spellotape Jun 25th 2011 4:49AM
While I personally think healing diversity is preferrable, it certainly isn't necessary. At the moment my 10 man group typically runs with two druids and one shaman or two shamans and one druid - if we have to pug it's generally a priest or paladin we pick up, and we do miss the extra mana tide when it's not there on harder fights. Our group wasn't hand-picked - we just took our friends and made it work.
It surprises me, however, that any RL would sit guildies unless they had a good reason - class diversity is not a very good reason. Either there is something more to their methods or they are simply unaware of what all of the healing classes (and for priests, specs) bring.