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6-24-2011 @ 6:49PM
So basically a 10 man guild like mine that are 10/12 regulars and wont be doing heroics anytime soon are pretty much screwed. None of us need the gear from the dailies, but it sounds as if we arent progressed/"skilled" enough that we can start Firelands and actually down anything. So what exactly do we do? Keep throwing ourselves against the wall that is 10 man Nef and Al'akir? Do heroic T-11 that none of us really have any interest in doing especially if we can't even down 10 man Nef? Do dungeons for justice points for gear we don't need because we already have it? Grind out the new Dailies for a month plus while we hope Firelands gets more accessible? I honestly cannot see myself continuing to pay $15 a month if the gap between t-11 and t-12 is truly going to be this wide.
6-24-2011 @ 7:01PM
You -should- be able to do some Firelands progression, but I certainly wouldn't expect for it to be all that easy. I would expect that it would be no more or less challenging than Nef would be to your guild, possibly less so. It is difficult to pin down the actual "challenge" rating for any encounter. Certain encounters are just more difficult for other guilds than others, and certain thigns are more difficult in 10-man than 25-man. I would say to give it a shot, you may not find them to be as hard as Nef. You never know until you try!
6-24-2011 @ 7:41PM
Just a thought, looking at the history of raiding for the past couple expansions. You may just take it slow and wait for the inevitable nerfs to come. Blizz has seemed to go through the same stages lately where as new raid content is difficult off the bat to give those exceptional guilds a fair shake at world firsts and the likes, but then within a couple months everything is 'tuned' to the more, not casual, but typical raiding guilds. I wouldn't call the sky falling just yet, give it a shot, maybe take the advice of going back when you hit a wall with firelands and do some base HM's or what not and just wait it out a bit. I know that sounds somewhat negative, and I don't mean it as such, but basically they have proven that if the majority of people are struggling with something they will make it more accessible in time. My guild is only 3/13 heroic currently due to a lot of people coming and going and I worry about some of our early firelands experience too, but I think by the time we're at a wall with it there will be a first segment of nerfs to encounters. It pains me to say that as I would like us to be a great top end guild and all, but we just simply don't have the dedication for it as a whole. Point being, don't stress over the difficulty too much, things are always hard at first and if you're still raiding at this point without nef/cho'gall down then it says your guild is dedicated enough to stick it out without blowing up internally, so it shouldn't be any different come the next tier of raiding, right?
6-24-2011 @ 7:49PM
@Rohtak I'm in the same boat you are and I sincerely hope heroic raiding is not required to do normal raiding. I'm hoping to take down Nef and Al-akir due to the nerfs and farm a bit of tier gear from the final bosses to help out the Firelands progression. Fingers-crossed that it's enough.
6-24-2011 @ 10:00PM
My $15 bucks a month goes towards a game I sit down and enjoy after my wife and kids are in bed. I try and experience every aspect of the game. Try it some time. Blizzard has tried so much to have a happy medium between the "hardcore" and "Casual" players and have branched out in different directions to add variety. Nobody is ever happy. Every fight is scripted and if the script is followed he will go down. 10 minutes of research and a video is not that hard to make your 15 a month worth it. On average 15 / lets say 30 = .50 cents a day. I think your getting your moneys worth, pretty sure of it. Ask your self what you wish to obtain from this gaming experience. Is it a cheat code that gives you instant epics and scrolling text saying you did it? or an environment that gives you a break from every day life? Try just enjoying the game for what it is and not an entitlement that you feel your .50 cents a day deserves (on average, I am aware that number changes for many). For 5 years I've seen individuals complaining that they can't get past A to be rewarded B to access C because they don't have the time to put in the effort that the formula may require. I get it. You have a life. Good on ya. Just don't complain on public forums about how much you pay and how it's not fair. We all pay the same amount and how we choose to use our game time will differ.
6-24-2011 @ 10:14PM
Remember all regular t11 bosses will all be getting nerfed so you should have an easier time with any bosses you have left in that tier.
6-24-2011 @ 11:20PM
@ Kevlar WTF are you talking about?I didn not once mention that I felt entitled to anything. I don't feel entitled. I like the idea of having to work for my rewards; however, I don't like the idea of putting content out of the reach of the majority of players. Watching a video on a fight or reading a write up doesn't not make the actual execution magically become easier. We have watched video's and researched the hell out of Neferian on 10 man. Simple fact is we just havent been able to down him. Am i complaining about that? No, not at all. If I felt entitled then i'd be crying for more nerfs and how blizzard owes me. But again I'm not. My guild and I have thrown ourselves at that damn encounter for weeks now and are determined to down him before 4.2 as a point of pride. We dont wanted to be handed epics. What concerns me is if the next teir starts out on a difficulty level equal to Nef pre nerf (which alot of sources are indicating that is about where the first couple of bosses sit difficulty wise) where does that leave me and my guild? What do we do? Do we continue to pound away at Nef until we down him and run heroics to pass the time, or just wait for the eventual nerfs to Teir 12? Because thats the choices we are faced with. If Teir 12 is out of our reach then we are left with nothing to do. We are pretty muched past the current content, have no need for 5 mans or justice points, and flat out refuse to be forced into a progression path that makes us do T-11 heroics before we can do T-12. If thats the case, then yeah, its not worth my $15 a month. But if thats your idea of a good time and how you want to "enjoy the game" then by all means have at it.
6-25-2011 @ 2:56AM
I don't see how anyone, including Mr. Carraway, can speculate on the relative tuning of the upcoming boss tier. No one except Blizzard employees know how the bosses will be tuned. Even people who play on the PTR only really get a grasp for general mechanics, but often numbers get tweaked around enough before release that trivial mechanics become crucial and vice versa. It's definitely premature to speculate on what sort of gear you "need" to progress in Firelands- though going from prior tier experiences you do not have to clear the previous tier to progress in the next. So @Rohtak, it's definitely too early for whining. If you're 10/12 regulars you're probably kitted out in mostly 359s already, just missing a few weapons (craftable in 4.2) and 4-set bonuses (irrelevant since you'll be replacing a lot of that equipment soon). My guess is you'll be ready to step into Firelands on day one.
6-25-2011 @ 7:43AM
@eel5peI have done the content on the PTR and, well, I also happen to have played the raiding game since before time itself. Yes, totally, I'm like that.In all seriousness, that's merely how balance works. Going from Ulduar to ToC was a slight challenge for non-heroic guilds, but it was totally do-able. Going into ICC from normal ToC was possible, but it was pretty tough. During the time of ICC's release, I raided with two guilds. One which was clearing heroic content, and one which struggled constantly on heroic content. The first cleared through ICC normal was minimal learning difficulty. It wasn't overtly difficult until we hit the later tier of bosses such as PP, Sindy, and LK, but it wasn't a walk-through-the-park either. The second guild managed to clear all of the same content as the first guild, but it took a lot longer. It took us two nights to initially clear out Saurfang because we didn't have the healing or damage that we needed. On the second night of raiding we managed to get it down, but it wasn't easy.Every raiding tier is balanced on the assumption that you have gear from the prior raiding tier. The bosses will be "easier" in terms of overall mechanics than heroic T11 bosses, but they'll be about the same in terms of overall damage. Get it? Like, the bosses will deal around the same amount of damage as you experience on heroic Magmaw....but there won't be that additional add there -- which, overall, makes healing easier. Tuning wise they're the same, the requirements for coordination and crazy stacking, they aren't.
6-27-2011 @ 10:52AM
4.2 is nerfing all of bwd bot and throne 20% across the board. if your raid can't clear this content after that nerf, look for a pug group in trade that should be able to do it easily because your guild group sounds terrible
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