Encrypted Text: Blade Flurry is broken

Whenever I think of the current state of combat, I recall rogue blogger Aldriana's insightful post from when the Blade Flurry change was first announced. Blade Flurry has always been the spec's signature ability, but now it's transcended into its only ability. Combat rogues currently fluctuate between "just ahead of subtlety" and "best in the game" based on whether or not Blade Flurry works on a particular encounter. Blade Flurry makes or breaks combat rogues, making it incredibly unbalanced.
Combat rogues are lucky that Magmaw and Halfus are relatively easy heroic encounters, because doing six-digit DPS on Sinestra would've certainly drawn the developer's attention. At one point in time, Blade Flurry was simply an extra perk of the combat tree. You could pick up some extra damage if there was something nearby to cleave, but it rarely decided your outcome. Even on ideal Blade Flurry fights like the Twin Val'kyr, combat rogues weren't that overpowering. The new BF design is impossible to balance against.
Blade Flurry is broken
There are a few possible balance options for Blade Flurry, but none of them are perfect. Consider the first scenario, where combat rogues do good DPS without Blade Flurry active. Once they turn it on, they'll be doing good damage to two targets, putting them way too far ahead of everyone else. In the second case, their single-target DPS is awful, but they're viable with BF activated. That's where combat rogues are today, but we're so reliant on having multiple targets to attack.
Blizzard can't design every encounter to have a convenient cleave target for us, and it hasn't. Except against Halfus and Magmaw, combat is inferior to assassination in every way, and that's not balance.
Applying penalties to Blade Flurry
The third scenario is where combat rogues have good single-target DPS, but where Blade Flurry cuts down our damage by a more significant amount than today's 15% energy penalty. If the penalty is applied to our Blade Flurry damage, such as cutting it to a percentage of our primary target damage, then the net effect is that BF is less important than it is today.
The issue with this design is that we typically want the majority of our damage on our new target (such as an important add) rather than the old target. In order to put more damage on the add, we're switching targets, which means losing Bandit's Guile and our Deadly Poison stack, which murders our DPS. One of Blade Flurry's biggest benefits is that we don't have to switch targets in order to hit the second target, preserving the advantage of the buffs/debuffs on the primary target.
The fourth scenario is where a larger penalty is applied to our damage against the primary target, with the end effect of splitting our DPS evenly between our two targets. I think this is probably the least awful choice, as it allows us to stick on our primary target while still dealing respectable damage against the secondary target.
The problem with the design is that PVE fights are so varied in their design. Some bosses and adds are designed to be killed slowly or simultaneously, making an even-split Blade Flurry ideal. Other mobs, typically adds, need to be killed swiftly, which again means a target swap. Doing 50% of our DPS against an elemental on heroic Cho'gall simply isn't enough, so we're forced to take the target swap and deal less damage against both due to the lack of debuffs and Bandit's Guile on the add.
There's a fifth scenario possible, where our primary target damage is cut to say 20% while the remaining 80% is transferred to our secondary target. We get to stay focused on our primary target, gaining the extra damage from the already-present buffs and debuffs, but we still get to do serious damage against the new add. In all honesty, 80% of our primary target damage is probably 100% of our damage if we were to switch targets and be forced to reset Bandit's Guile and wait for debuff applications that may never come. Combat rogues now have the ability to "swap targets" with little downtime. The design isn't perfect, especially since doing most of your damage to something other than your primary target isn't exactly intuitive.
Blade Flurry needs a nerf
In all of the scenarios I outlined above, Blade Flurry loses some of its potency from today. The fact is that it needs a nerf; otherwise, combat rogues are going to remain one-trick ponies. Combat rogues deal the majority of the damage as physical damage, and so today, Blade Flurry is boosting our DPS by around 60-80% while active. A DPS swing that drastic can't be allowed to stay in the game. If combat rogues were only 10% behind assassination rogues on single-target encounters and Blade Flurry only increased their damage by 20%, I think that ratio would be relatively balanced.
As it stands today, there's only one viable spec for 10 out of the 13 bosses in tier 11, and that's unacceptable. I think we've accepted as a class that subtlety is going to suck in PVE, but seeing combat down there with frost mages and beast mastery hunters isn't helping anyone. The design goal of "bring the player, not the class" is in direct contradiction with combat's current bipolar potential.
We can either wait for combat rogues to break some heroic encounter so badly that the developers are forced to nerf them, or we can hope that the Blade Flurry redesign is done proactively to ensure that the spell isn't simply nerfed into the ground.
Filed under: Rogue, (Rogue) Encrypted Text
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
erndawg Jun 29th 2011 3:07PM
I was cutting him some slack since I went off a little last week about him saying it wasn't viable. So at least Chase changed his wording.
Chase Christian Jun 29th 2011 3:21PM
Let's cut to the chase; post some of your sub World of Logs parses and we'll compare them to an assassination rogue in equivalent gear.
Hail Jun 29th 2011 3:36PM
Sounds good. Now keep in mind I have been getting gear, but the most recent records in this are with a t11 helm and the Poison Protocol Shoulders. I finally got my t11 shoulders the last week of t11 so I can say with confidence that none of these records are with my current gear. Also I had the Cloak of Biting Chill. I'll log off in my old pve gear now for the armory but it won't be there now. Also check the buffs, these are in 10m so I don't have all, however the lock does DI me since I am the best candidate.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/138432/rankings/players/
Hail Jun 29th 2011 3:39PM
Armory appears to be down currently but here is the link.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/azjolnerub/Haileaus/
Hail Jun 29th 2011 4:03PM
Not sure if it is possible but if so I wonder how Sub compares to other specs on Ascendent council. On one had sub requires a bleed which may not be provided by the raid (meaning more ruptures = dps loss) yet it also has shadowstep, meaning the uptime is far superior. Also a comparison of the damage dealt during the final phase, when the sub rogue gets two vanishes and a shadowdance all during lust/heroism. Probably impossible to check any of those on WoL however I do think the increased uptime and better burst are more hidden bonuses to sub.
erndawg Jun 29th 2011 4:05PM
There you go again Chase, "chasing" the damage meters.
I do not argue that Sub is generally behind Assassination on the meters, regardless of how well it's played. All I'm trying to convey is that being lower on the meters doesn't mean a spec isn't viable.
To quote myself from last week's comments, "If viable is defined by being on top of the damage meters, we should all just roll mages or hunters and forget about rogues."
Chase Christian Jun 29th 2011 4:10PM
@erndawg
You can go to a vendor, and for just 50g + reforging costs, you can do 10+% more damage. This isn't about damage meters or viability; it's about purposefully choosing to do less damage. It's selfish.
Hail Jun 29th 2011 4:16PM
Is 23k single target dps with slightly suboptimal ilvl 359 gear (with a pvp OH =P) that much below the other specs?
erndawg Jun 29th 2011 4:19PM
If this is in reference to me missing SV, that was a complete oversight, no idea why I missed it, and I'll be correcting it when I log on tonight.
As far as being selfish goes... ummm... last i checked, this was a game, not a job. It is for liesure, not performance. I paid for the game, I pay for the subscription, I play the spec I like to the best of my ability, and make corrections when an error is shown to me. If that's selfish, I'm guilty.
On the other hand, if there are people that want to play with my selfish, egotistical, and completely oblivious sub rogue, what does that say about them?
Hail Jun 29th 2011 4:24PM
I think what he is saying is more along these lines:
If you are in a raid and topping the meters, clearing content at a decent pace, etc, then you are good. However, if dps isn't enough on some fights and everyone is pulling 10% more than you because you do not know how to properly play subtlety (because if you pull it off fight matters more than spec) or you simply do not have the gear to pull it off, you ARE holding your raid back. If that is the case, you would be best to change SOMETHING so that progression can be maintained.
Hail Jun 29th 2011 3:00PM
Have you tried sub lately? because if you have decent gear the rotation isn't that punishing, and while it is pretty reliant on a bleed to do decent damage which makes target swapping somewhat hard, the ability to Shadowstep over to adds as well as put instant pressure with an actually powerful CP generator (BS) makes quick switches pretty good actually. Seriously. Optimize for sub first, (btw you want expertise over crit, idc what a spreadsheet says they are close and human error's effect on the rotation makes expertise way better) and try it out in a few raids, even if it is just BH.
Hail Jun 29th 2011 3:01PM
Also sub has INSANE burst, making it very nice on fights with critical burn phases.
erndawg Jun 29th 2011 3:02PM
HA! See? I'm not the only one!
Hail Jun 29th 2011 3:06PM
lol I wrote a sub guide for the wow forums (stickied). You can see all seven pve sub rogues there! (ok, maybe 9)
Vorenus Jun 29th 2011 3:01PM
i agree all around, i leveled as combat and would love to go back to that spec. i need a viable reason to be able to rock double weapons again (ie: dw daggers, dw swords, or my fav DW Fist Weapons!!)
erndawg Jun 29th 2011 3:08PM
I should post there and make it 10. I really REALLY do raid as Sub
Hail Jun 29th 2011 3:13PM
Go for it. And that should give me a chance to check your gear, I like doing that lol.
Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2089279145
erndawg Jun 29th 2011 3:17PM
Here's my armory link
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/the-forgotten-coast/Tabien/simple
Hail Jun 29th 2011 3:24PM
Not bad except the subtlety tree of talents is...well just wrong since you lack SV.
"The best build for pure dps is:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fMhcZ0bZcGcsdu0RGo
There are no filler points, though the weakest talent is Initiative, followed by Elusiveness."
I would suggest not taking points out of anything else if you do want to sacrifice dps for utility (Env. Shdws is great for raids, I take one out of initiative for that personally) but if you really want to do either prep or prem. I like prep so i can have a guarenteed vanish for burn phases (or wipes) but depends on your style.
Chase Christian Jun 29th 2011 3:36PM
No Sanguinary Vein? What's 16% DPS among friends?