Encrypted Text: Blade Flurry is broken

Whenever I think of the current state of combat, I recall rogue blogger Aldriana's insightful post from when the Blade Flurry change was first announced. Blade Flurry has always been the spec's signature ability, but now it's transcended into its only ability. Combat rogues currently fluctuate between "just ahead of subtlety" and "best in the game" based on whether or not Blade Flurry works on a particular encounter. Blade Flurry makes or breaks combat rogues, making it incredibly unbalanced.
Combat rogues are lucky that Magmaw and Halfus are relatively easy heroic encounters, because doing six-digit DPS on Sinestra would've certainly drawn the developer's attention. At one point in time, Blade Flurry was simply an extra perk of the combat tree. You could pick up some extra damage if there was something nearby to cleave, but it rarely decided your outcome. Even on ideal Blade Flurry fights like the Twin Val'kyr, combat rogues weren't that overpowering. The new BF design is impossible to balance against.
Blade Flurry is broken
There are a few possible balance options for Blade Flurry, but none of them are perfect. Consider the first scenario, where combat rogues do good DPS without Blade Flurry active. Once they turn it on, they'll be doing good damage to two targets, putting them way too far ahead of everyone else. In the second case, their single-target DPS is awful, but they're viable with BF activated. That's where combat rogues are today, but we're so reliant on having multiple targets to attack.
Blizzard can't design every encounter to have a convenient cleave target for us, and it hasn't. Except against Halfus and Magmaw, combat is inferior to assassination in every way, and that's not balance.
Applying penalties to Blade Flurry
The third scenario is where combat rogues have good single-target DPS, but where Blade Flurry cuts down our damage by a more significant amount than today's 15% energy penalty. If the penalty is applied to our Blade Flurry damage, such as cutting it to a percentage of our primary target damage, then the net effect is that BF is less important than it is today.
The issue with this design is that we typically want the majority of our damage on our new target (such as an important add) rather than the old target. In order to put more damage on the add, we're switching targets, which means losing Bandit's Guile and our Deadly Poison stack, which murders our DPS. One of Blade Flurry's biggest benefits is that we don't have to switch targets in order to hit the second target, preserving the advantage of the buffs/debuffs on the primary target.
The fourth scenario is where a larger penalty is applied to our damage against the primary target, with the end effect of splitting our DPS evenly between our two targets. I think this is probably the least awful choice, as it allows us to stick on our primary target while still dealing respectable damage against the secondary target.
The problem with the design is that PVE fights are so varied in their design. Some bosses and adds are designed to be killed slowly or simultaneously, making an even-split Blade Flurry ideal. Other mobs, typically adds, need to be killed swiftly, which again means a target swap. Doing 50% of our DPS against an elemental on heroic Cho'gall simply isn't enough, so we're forced to take the target swap and deal less damage against both due to the lack of debuffs and Bandit's Guile on the add.
There's a fifth scenario possible, where our primary target damage is cut to say 20% while the remaining 80% is transferred to our secondary target. We get to stay focused on our primary target, gaining the extra damage from the already-present buffs and debuffs, but we still get to do serious damage against the new add. In all honesty, 80% of our primary target damage is probably 100% of our damage if we were to switch targets and be forced to reset Bandit's Guile and wait for debuff applications that may never come. Combat rogues now have the ability to "swap targets" with little downtime. The design isn't perfect, especially since doing most of your damage to something other than your primary target isn't exactly intuitive.
Blade Flurry needs a nerf
In all of the scenarios I outlined above, Blade Flurry loses some of its potency from today. The fact is that it needs a nerf; otherwise, combat rogues are going to remain one-trick ponies. Combat rogues deal the majority of the damage as physical damage, and so today, Blade Flurry is boosting our DPS by around 60-80% while active. A DPS swing that drastic can't be allowed to stay in the game. If combat rogues were only 10% behind assassination rogues on single-target encounters and Blade Flurry only increased their damage by 20%, I think that ratio would be relatively balanced.
As it stands today, there's only one viable spec for 10 out of the 13 bosses in tier 11, and that's unacceptable. I think we've accepted as a class that subtlety is going to suck in PVE, but seeing combat down there with frost mages and beast mastery hunters isn't helping anyone. The design goal of "bring the player, not the class" is in direct contradiction with combat's current bipolar potential.
We can either wait for combat rogues to break some heroic encounter so badly that the developers are forced to nerf them, or we can hope that the Blade Flurry redesign is done proactively to ensure that the spell isn't simply nerfed into the ground.
Filed under: Rogue, (Rogue) Encrypted Text
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
erndawg Jun 29th 2011 3:40PM
So the guy that insists sub is garbage now offers advice on how to play it better? LMAO!
I agree Hail, for pure DPS your build is as good as it gets. But the cheat death utility has come in handy on more than one encounter.
Hail Jun 29th 2011 4:07PM
Get better healers. Seriously though, SV is a MUST. If you want utility, take points out of Elusiveness, Initiative, Prem, or Prep before you take out of SV. In fact, even Puncturing Wounds might be worse than it. If you want to sacrifice dps for utility, by all means, do it. However, please don't make that huge of a sacrifice. Looking at your gear it seems as though you do mostly heroics, in which case it is true you probably don't need the Vanish CD reduction. But yeah, I might consider getting ES to make AoE damage trivial and if you happen to get aggro (only real source of single target damage) then blow vanish.
Jabadabadana Jun 29th 2011 4:08PM
A spec can be inferior at dps, and still have right and wrong ways to go about dps'ing with it.
An extreme example would be something like... trying to dps with the resto druid talent spec. If you tried, and didn't take Fury of Stormrage, you'd still be doing it wrong. (and then people could get into an argument about genesis vs grace, but once theorycrafted, there would be a correct answer.)
Hail Jun 29th 2011 4:10PM
As a rogue....what?
erndawg Jun 29th 2011 4:13PM
Honestly, I didn't know I was missing SV until you pointed it out to me. I have every intention of fixing that when I log on later. How I didn't take that I really have NO idea.
Artificial Jun 29th 2011 4:13PM
I've found any extra points from Initiative are wasted. You're going to get two from Ambush, two from Premeditation, and one from HaT. What's the point of earning a sixth combo point when you can only have five?
Cowboy Jun 29th 2011 7:42PM
420 hks? That's not a real rogue is it?
Altruism Jun 29th 2011 3:12PM
I miss Blade Flurry from wrath, it was useful on single target fights, promoted cooldown stacking, and you had to at least think a bit about when you use it. Now it's just...a stance.
Blueliner Jun 29th 2011 3:40PM
Take the penalty off of BF and make it not stack with SnD. Or just give us hack and slash back.
Siorra Jun 29th 2011 5:58PM
Slice and Dice needs 100% uptime regardless so that's a terrible idea.
And we do have Hack and Slash. It's combat's mastery...
B1ueliner Jun 29th 2011 6:20PM
Ah I had forgotten they had taken the attack speed bonus off of blade flurry as well. If it were wrath's version of BF then it would apply. Being that any halfway decent assassination rogue only has to hit SnD a couple of times. BF would be used in place of SnD. And true, Main Gauche is a watered down version of Hack and Slash. However, hack and slash would also depend on having those quick sword/mace/axe off-hands which don't realy exist anymore.
jhayes425 Jun 29th 2011 3:46PM
This, but for Sub. We need a fix too, simply stating that "I think we've accepted as a class that subtlety is going to suck in PVE..." isn't helping. I play sub, love it and would like it to be viable. I can't stand the thought of it just being the PVP tree since they've worked so hard at changing that ideology (remember LOLRET?). But simply letting it go and saying that it's just the way it is doesn't help our case. We need to stand up for BOTH trees; combat and sub both deserve to viable for PVE and PVP.
trendy.ideology Jun 29th 2011 3:46PM
Not every class needs to have every spec be raid viable. Especially pures.
And is there anything really stopping you from picking up a spec-swap/saver addon and swapping your PVP spec to a PVE assassination spec and even *gasp* either doing a reforge saver, and swapping reforging, or, building an offset of gear?
You want broken? Ret is broken.
BM is terrible in PVE.
There's tons of classes that have specs that have NO encounters that cater to it.
You have a borderline OP spec that only performs well in a cleave environment? Boo freaking hoo.
trendy.ideology Jun 29th 2011 4:02PM
Actually, for all intents and purposes BM is supposed to be the pet survivability spec, solo spec, and MM is more viable because of an old outdated set of tier gear that heals based off damage done.
It should be removed, and BM should actually be made useful.
The only people who play BM collect pets.
Once the pet is collected, they're never seen on the spec.
(Unless they're supremely stupid)
Chase Christian Jun 29th 2011 4:08PM
I'm not asking for every spec, I'm only asking for two. Warlocks, mages, and hunters all have two good PVE specs, and rogues deserve the same.
Hail Jun 29th 2011 4:08PM
Why are you talking about hunters on a rogue article? They are not welcome here, after all the times hunters have taken our stuff.
Hail Jun 29th 2011 4:09PM
That wasn't to you Chase.
Xayíde Jun 29th 2011 4:33PM
Warlocks have 3! Yay! \o/
Btw, isn't Sub simmed as the top Rogue spec right now? http://www.simulationcraft.org/420/Raid_T12H.html
Is that simulation unrealistic? Is it because of Backstab?
Sunaseni Jun 29th 2011 5:08PM
To put it another way, I can simulate that it is possible to get home from work really fast by weaving in and out of lanes between cars and barely squeezing through gaps. However, in reality, real world imperfections and very real world consequences for failure make such a prospect... unrealistic.
Sub can be a competitive spec. You just need to be some kind of zen master to do it, though. And Assassination will be equal or better with much less effort and more attention paid to the environment. Consider 4 finishing moves in Rupture, Eviscerate, Slice and Dice, and Recuperate. Random procs of Honor Among Thieves. Managing the Hemorrage debuff to keep up the bleed damage debuff. Two combo point generators depending on if you can be behind or not. Excessive CDs with Shadowstep, Shadow Dance, and ambushing during the dance.
Look at Assassination: Mutilate for CPs, Slice and Dice once, then switch between Rupture and Envenom for finishing moves. One CD is just a flat damage increase, another is a one button press which you hit before a 5-combo-point Envenom. That's it.
Hail Jun 29th 2011 5:25PM
"Sub can be a competitive spec. You just need to be some kind of zen master to do it, though."
-Not quite
"Consider 4 finishing moves in Rupture, Eviscerate, Slice and Dice, and Recuperate."
-you only need to use rupture once, so for all intents and purposes it is three.
"Random procs of Honor Among Thieves."
-Maybe in heroics, otherwise it is a steady 1 ever 2 secs.
"Managing the Hemorrage debuff to keep up the bleed damage debuff."
-Even if you don't have a druid/war to do it, it really isn't hard. I mean you should keep a timer addon if you want to make sub managable, and keep hemo w/ your three over time effects.
"Two combo point generators depending on if you can be behind or not."
-Ok really? If that is an issue than why not add shadowstep being suicide on some fights. Wait, that point actually has some merit because it is actually true and will hurt dps. I mean switching to hemo is easy.
Excessive CDs with Shadowstep, Shadow Dance, and ambushing during the dance.
SS should be only in macros, idk what you mean about ambush, but yes, CD management is a large part of the spec. Still it is very doable with practice.