Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsPrevious tier of raid content is meant to be pugged, says Bashiok
by Mathew McCurley 
Jun 30th 2011 at 7:00PM
Bashiok does say that servers will take a bit to gain the momentum and general fluency with the encounters, but that it is entirely able to be pugged. Further, he says that from here on out, Blizzard has adopted the mantra of one cutting-edge tier, with the previous raids nerfed to allow players an easier time to complete them.
Personally, I am a huge fan of this type of content shift, and I think we've reached a pretty good compromise with regards to content accessibility and raid design. Raiders get their challenge while the content is relevant, hard modes are still skill-based encounters that do not get the nerf bat, and the previous tier of normal mode content is much more accessible to more casual raiders. Much as Ulduar drakes still presented a challenge in execution during Wrath even though we outgeared them, hard modes in Cataclysm are the execution challenges that will still prove to be tricky for meta achievements. Count me in.
Bashiok comments on previous raid tier nerfs
We specifically intend for the 4.0 raids to be puggable now that Firelands is out. Grabbing some tier 11 by way of Justice, quest rewards, plus across the board difficulty nerfs should really be enough to get them going.
The patch has only been out a day or so though. I think it'll probably take a little bit before people really get it into their heads that they should be pugging the previous tier because it's not too hard to be successful. It's just getting people used to the various encounters and mechanics.
Maybe people are waiting for the holiday weekend? If nothing else, leading one yourself is always an option. I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.
The patch has only been out a day or so though. I think it'll probably take a little bit before people really get it into their heads that they should be pugging the previous tier because it's not too hard to be successful. It's just getting people used to the various encounters and mechanics.
Maybe people are waiting for the holiday weekend? If nothing else, leading one yourself is always an option. I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.
The news is already rolling out for the upcoming WoW Patch 4.2! Preview the new Firelands raid, marvel at the new legendary staff, and get the inside scoop on new quest hubs -- plus new Tier 12 armor!
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Maxilimus Jun 30th 2011 7:37PM
Why bother doing any raids ever. Next expansion everyone and their lvl 58 DK will be able to solo everything. Whats the point of keeping the current (and in 4.2 firelands) "hard" when the top raiding guilds will be way past it, but the more casual people, or people who cant make raid times/ cant be hardcore raiders due to it draining the fun out of the game (like me) not being able to do anything but grind out
FartyMcGee Jun 30th 2011 7:54PM
Personally, I'm excited for my guild to get our first Nef kill tonight. With the schedules and size of our guild, that wasn't going to happen without the nerf bat. Getting the boss down together is far more rewarding than having to be leet to do it.
GhostWhoWalks Jun 30th 2011 8:23PM
"What do I get? "
"getting the gear slightly earlier."
Thank you for answering your own question.
Utakata Jun 30th 2011 8:55PM
Pyromelter, I'm afraid that Dril is no troll. But a long time poster I've seen around on a few MMO venues where he has has said some pretty brilliant things. But that doesn't mean you have to agree with him. And I certainly don't agree with him here. I've also butted heads with him a couple of times at massivley...but I never accused him of trolling. I like Dril, because like myself...he speaks his mind. And hold no punches while doing that. This may get on alot of peeps nerves...but least he's honest and sincere, even if sometimes misguided.
Case in point, his "Why not have a really easy initial raid zone, then have a smooth curve of difficulty, rather than effectively cutting off content after an arbitrary number of patches?" is pretty good. While his, "Why should I bother with Firelands now, and struggle through it, when later on everyone and their dog will be able to steamroll through it," is a pretty ridiculous, IMO. But niether which are stated to cause descension for it's own sake...but rather to vent his frustration. So why not debate the substance of his claims and arguements instead slagging him off as a "fail troll" instead?
aelders5124 Jun 30th 2011 9:16PM
A) so people who want to challenge themselves, can
B) so eventually EVERYBODY can get there feet wet. Already cleared them and onto firelands? You probably won't go back to those anyways.
C) if you REALLY wannado them, click on over to heroic 10/25 man launch raids
D) they mostly do it to piss you off.
...ok, mostly a-c
raingod Jun 30th 2011 9:23PM
If it means having players like you stamp their feet and quit the game, so much the better. The absence of players with this attitude will only make the game a better place to play.
smartazjb0y Jul 1st 2011 1:43AM
"Why should I bother with Firelands now, and struggle through it, when later on everyone and their dog will be able to steamroll through it. What do I get? "
So basically, why should I bother with Firelands now and struggle when in the next expansion pack level 90 noobs in quest gear can do it with their friends? It's the same idea, just a longer period of time. If you actually care about doing something that's an achievement, that's hard, and that's exclusive, go do heroics. They're still un-nerfed. Completing normal modes isn't that much of a bragging right, but completing heroics is.
Cigan Jul 1st 2011 8:26AM
That's a nice ego stroke. What do you get? Who cares what you get? Playing a game is about the experience of the game. Personally I'd like to see some achievements for completing the encounters before their main nerf. I think that would be a nice touch to go with this design, but it's a minor consideration.
You got to experience the content when it was hard, and be satisfied in the knowledge that you got it down in it's current tier. This is no different than the ICC buff, and you know what? ICC was fun, really really fun.
"Rewards" in a video game don't mean anything. They don't help you get laid (far from it), they don't make your life any easier, they don't make you special. They are part of the system to facilitate you experiencing and enjoying the game. That is all they are. If you are actually imbuing importance in the reward itself then it really is time for you to unplug and get a real life going for yourself.
doc Jul 1st 2011 1:03PM
dril
if your idea of 'reasons' and 'ethos' is to perpetuate wow snobbery, than you are absolutely correct. i will dance upon the grave of your ethos the same way i danced upon the grave of the lvl-19's twink's.
Necromann Jun 30th 2011 7:15PM
Yesterday, you guys made me think that firelands trash was a nightmare. I was scared to heal it. It wasn't hard. It was very fun. Being a forsaken priest, I could break fears on the core hound. The only real problems were ppl standing in the fire breath and experimenting with turtles, to bugged.
SaintStryfe Jun 30th 2011 7:22PM
I'm glad someone else felt thatway! This trash is exactly the opposite of the trash in - say - BoT. It doesn't feel like a slog. It's an event all of itself. That the mobs use raid mechanics (get out of zones, kiting, ect) makes it feel much more then just "Burn Skull, then X, then Square".
jfofla Jun 30th 2011 8:04PM
I love healing Firelands on my Pally!
Even the trash. Brilliant Raid!
Zantrix81 Jun 30th 2011 7:22PM
Incoming QQ explosion...
Corath Jun 30th 2011 7:31PM
Too late, unfortunately. :(
Crun Jun 30th 2011 7:28PM
inb4 "Thats it, WoW is dead because Blizz is catering to casuals and forgetting the hardcores!" Wah wah wah cry cry.
Im excited! :D
Doomers Jul 1st 2011 7:49AM
...says the casual.
DarkWalker Jul 1st 2011 5:21PM
Well, I read that as "PUGs are not welcome at the current raid tier".
Which, unfortunately - given that I don't expect to be able to have a free, predictable time slot to raid for the next year and a half - means I might as well give up on raiding. I'm not keen on the idea of being a whole tier behind raiding groups just because I'm forced to pug; I might accept the idea of an "easy" difficulty setting, with weaker rewards, but if I'm to be restricted to just the old content, I prefer to just watch the story unfold in YouTube raid videos and not bother playing anymore.
omedon666 Jun 30th 2011 7:37PM
The problem with statements like this, is it is rather presumptuous as to the "expected" success level of this sort of thing. Developers saying "you should be good enough" is a slippery slope. Blizzard overtuning their PVE content meant to be "accessible" has lead to many cases of insulted burnout that I am aware of. Sure, we can call them "bads", but good people getting frustrated are not the "bads" we should be thus ostracizing, those being counter-social d-bags that will throw up their social numbness blinders and down the bosses anyway.
omedon666 Jun 30th 2011 9:09PM
I'd be wrong not to tack on to this, however, that I think the "eventually is for everyone" design is laudable, and I applaud this incarnation of it, but I don't think it's Blizzard's place to brazenly say, essentially "anyone who should consider raiding should be able to do this with a group of random strangers now", because every defeat (not wipe, defeat, there's a difference) now has an officially declared expectation attached to it, to the tune of "but not you, you're not good enough". This is why I felt that the dungeon finder being enabled at release for heroics, was a very bad idea as well.
Accessibility=good
Officially expressed statement of expected player competence=dangerous
Jbutler15809 Jun 30th 2011 7:37PM
Atleast the gearing process won't be so hard to do on my dk alt now. But Dragonwrath calls for my Mage! Gear an alt or legendary staff, that is the question.