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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsPrevious tier of raid content is meant to be pugged, says Bashiok
by Mathew McCurley 
Jun 30th 2011 at 7:00PM
Bashiok does say that servers will take a bit to gain the momentum and general fluency with the encounters, but that it is entirely able to be pugged. Further, he says that from here on out, Blizzard has adopted the mantra of one cutting-edge tier, with the previous raids nerfed to allow players an easier time to complete them.
Personally, I am a huge fan of this type of content shift, and I think we've reached a pretty good compromise with regards to content accessibility and raid design. Raiders get their challenge while the content is relevant, hard modes are still skill-based encounters that do not get the nerf bat, and the previous tier of normal mode content is much more accessible to more casual raiders. Much as Ulduar drakes still presented a challenge in execution during Wrath even though we outgeared them, hard modes in Cataclysm are the execution challenges that will still prove to be tricky for meta achievements. Count me in.
Bashiok comments on previous raid tier nerfs
We specifically intend for the 4.0 raids to be puggable now that Firelands is out. Grabbing some tier 11 by way of Justice, quest rewards, plus across the board difficulty nerfs should really be enough to get them going.
The patch has only been out a day or so though. I think it'll probably take a little bit before people really get it into their heads that they should be pugging the previous tier because it's not too hard to be successful. It's just getting people used to the various encounters and mechanics.
Maybe people are waiting for the holiday weekend? If nothing else, leading one yourself is always an option. I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.
The patch has only been out a day or so though. I think it'll probably take a little bit before people really get it into their heads that they should be pugging the previous tier because it's not too hard to be successful. It's just getting people used to the various encounters and mechanics.
Maybe people are waiting for the holiday weekend? If nothing else, leading one yourself is always an option. I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.
The news is already rolling out for the upcoming WoW Patch 4.2! Preview the new Firelands raid, marvel at the new legendary staff, and get the inside scoop on new quest hubs -- plus new Tier 12 armor!
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
per.wa Jun 30th 2011 8:05PM
I like this change, though not for the reasons you might assume.
See, I'm a big fan of the Warcraft universe. I'm a proper lore-geek, and as such, (almost) every new dungeon and raid is a new piece of it to experience. As it so happens however, I'm a casual player. I don't have the time to grind and raid every day all week, so I miss out on the raids and such untill.. well, basically 'till the next expansion pack.
Today I did Blackwing Descent, for the first time since the release of Cata. And I loved it.
So yes, maybe it's annoying for hardcore raiders to see casual players in the tier, that they had to fight far harder for than post-nerf players do. But on the other hand, there's an all new tier out there now! Get raiding, get the new and shinier gear, and let the rest of us casual players enjoy the stuff you've been raiding for half a year.
Let's stop making annoyed remarks about it. :P
Nadia Jun 30th 2011 9:48PM
The hardcore people shouldn't complain. They got to do it when it was hard. If they wanted it to be easy they could wait like the casuals.
The date on the achievement lets people know you did it before it was nerfed.
Matthew Jun 30th 2011 8:01PM
I really liked pugging ICC! I met all sorts of new people! I got my Kingslayer from pugging.
dkhar Jun 30th 2011 8:08PM
This is a really good thing. Blizz themselves have said on numerous occasions that the hardcore raider's only make up a small percentage of their playerbase. Doing something like this(like they did in WotLK) gets more of their playerbase to see something that they wanted everyone to see to begin with. Hardcore's still get their world first's, still get their hard mode's, and now more and more people get to see epic encounter's without spending their entire gaming time to learn how a particular fight works(you can only read up and see an encounter so many times before you actually have to execute the fight, and that takes a lot of time as well). Kudo's to Blizz for making this their format!
Dave N. Jun 30th 2011 8:12PM
I really do think they have made a mistake. I feel normal CURRENT raids should eventually be puggable while they are still relevant. Make heroics for the hard cores and leave normal raiding for the majority. Who wants to really do t11 when it is outdated now? People only really raid current tier. There is no desire within a community to pug older current xpack content. I understand previous xpacks and going back and steamrolling for achieves and vanity stuff, but not something that you can get better loot from doing a bunch of dailies.
HappyTreeDance Jun 30th 2011 8:21PM
I'm cool with this.
I raid on my druid because I like being a raid healer. I'm only in one of my guild's raid groups because I have a husband that doesn't play WoW, and I like to spend time with him. However, my "second main" is a ret pally that I rarely get to raid with. It makes me sad that I don't get to experience content on her, or have the fun of smacking a boss around with my sword. The fact that they nerfed the t11 raids means that some Saturday afternoon when I'm bored, I can throw together a group and go have fun dpsing for a change. I really think it's a good compromise to make.
And really, by the end of Wrath, we went and killed KT with five people. So I don't think it matters if they nerf the old content once the new stuff comes out.
kalcod Jun 30th 2011 8:43PM
I just suspended my account after just over 5 years of constant play.
I just had enough of grinding grinding and more grinding. Our ICC raid guild died with Cataclysm and with work and family time I just don't have the time to play enough to make it into a lot of raid guilds who demand attendance x nights a week.
I now currently have 6 level 85 toons. I just found I was playing for the sake of playing.
Looking at the original post maybe I suspended a week too soon and should have stuck around for the Firelands patch and see if our new guild could have pugged the content.
I have no problem with Blizzard nerfing the content as they introduce a new tier. Maybe they just need to add a title for the people who completed the raids before the nerf to please those who like to show off that they can commit more time to raid than others. Opening up the end game content for the casual player is a great way to keep people more interested in the game and for people to see what an awesome game it is when you get the good stuff.
No doubt I'll come back again, maybe with next xpac but just burnt out for now with the inability to see some of the content in the time I have available.
artifex Jun 30th 2011 9:17PM
If it's become a treadmill for you, then you definitely should pack it in and find something else.
kia Jun 30th 2011 9:30PM
Taking a break was the best thing I ever did for my enthusiasm for WoW. I highly recommend it.
Marshal Jun 30th 2011 8:42PM
By quest rewards? How? :o
Amanda A. Jun 30th 2011 8:57PM
Eventually, the firelands dailies open up vendors with awesome gear. I want to say same ilvl as tier 11 hard modes.
Amanda A. Jun 30th 2011 8:57PM
You know that scene in Cinderella, where the heroine makes a gorgeous dress out of her stepsisters' discarded scraps, and they freak out because she used their scraps for it?
That's what the reaction of the more vocal 'hardcore!!1!' people reminds me of, in some ways. They seem to think that people who don't want to or can't do serious progression raiding should never get to see even older raids, or do any content at all aside from maybe the three normal mode dungeons. Because the only reason to play is to do hard mode raiding and have better gear than all those scrubs, right? *eyeroll*
MusedMoose Jun 30th 2011 9:03PM
That might be the best metaphor for this *EVER*. ^_^
Al Jul 1st 2011 2:01AM
I'm now picturing Ghostcrawler as the Fairy Godmother.. I hope you're happy.
dodgeballer2005 Jul 1st 2011 12:58AM
So this means that the post-Deathwing raid will make Deathwing as easy as Magmaw is now? This saddens me.
Amanda A. Jul 1st 2011 4:54AM
Probably more like the Lich King with the 30% buff-- remember that Magmaw's an easy start boss.
PeeWee Jul 1st 2011 8:21AM
People said the very same thing about Onyxia and Nefarian and C'thun and Kel'Thuzad and Prince Malchezaar and Kael'Thas and Lady Vashj and Archimonde and Illidan and...
..do I need to go on?
There's nothing new here. Move on.
Dazzin Jul 1st 2011 2:12AM
I started with this game just before BC and ya know - not being able to raid and being unable to grind for the gear so that you are Perfect for the raid has always been a problem. By the time even a good guild crew was willing to take me into some of the content most were burnt out on the grind.
I admit, I love the lore - I just want to see the content - I don't care if someone else got some great and glorious gear or title. If they earned it early on then good for them, I hope they enjoy it all well and in great battles to come.
Me I just want to see what has been created as part of the world I'm playing in. I've got 2 85 that still haven't done ICC because of lack of time and lack of grind and now its even difficult to pug since they took them off the Dungeon Finder after a certain level.
Us 'casual types' pay just as flipping much to enjoy this game as the hardcore raiders do - to try and tell me I can't see, enjoy, experience some part of the game just because I'm not able to grind for gear, when I am Willing To Wait for it is just rude. To tell the game creator that they are slagging the game for the hardcore raider is ridiculous when you've already done the game at the level you wanted to. You got what you wanted - the challenge at the time.
Me, I'd just like to have frickin' LK back on my dungeon finder - some of you 'hardcores' seem to think you need a huge chunk of the game all to yourselves. You did have - for MONTHS. Now, move along to the new stuff so the rest of us can get our money's worth out of the game as well.
Speetz1213 Jul 1st 2011 3:07AM
I love the content/lore too - hence why I do old raids, sometimes repetedly - but if you are getting the older tier nerfed and JP gear and questing gear etc. etc. what is their to complain about?
If you are simply replying to the jerks who think that every raid tier belongs to them and them only, I understand.
For people who want to Raid, we have FL Normal and H mode, and halfway through the tier, maybe a month in more "casual" (I hate that word... same with "hardcores," bleh) guilds will be downing 7/7 or close to it. Then they can farm the gear, while slightly after that the better guilds will get H mode 7/7, and start farming, probably 2 months down. This is the better of both "hardcoreish, 5 nights a week" and "casual, 3 nights but a good amount of skill," which is pretty much the min/max to raiding in a guild.
I don't really see the problem. Gives the people with more time constraints more to do for longer, and the people in guilds who hardly raid can still have plenty of t11 to do, maybe even H mode t11, and then also gearing up from heroics, dailies, and questing.
Plenty to do; if they didn't make you work for at least SOME, as in 1 or 2 bosses (Sinestra,) then there wouldn't be anything to work for. H mode it for a challenge, yes, but as far as the 7th, or last boss of a tier goes, he needs to take a lot to actually down. Maybe not even nearly as much just to see, but a lot to down, otherwise there wouldnt be anything UNIQUE for raiders or players in general to work for, aspire to, and actually accomplish.
Just saying "oh yeah I did that on hmode im 1337 hurp durp it ws exactly the same with bigger numbers and he farts ninjas every 35 seconds" is hardly exciting, interesting, or something to say "Man, I hope I get to down him eventually..."
I understand it sucks not to be able to play and see everything just because you only have X amount of time a day, or can't be on except at dog-ass early in the morn, but try changing realms or something! You can find a time zone that works better for your schedule, etc. And on top of it, as some Blue dude said, playing WoW and getting some where takes less investment, time, skill, and overall any resources compared to not only older MMORPGs, but other MMORPGs/MMOs in general.
adamjgp Jul 1st 2011 11:15AM
In reference to:
"Me, I'd just like to have frickin' LK back on my dungeon finder"
How are you getting raids to show up in your Dungeon Finder? Or are you referring to the ICC 5-mans?