Scattered Shots: The DPS value of skill

The problem with skill is that there's no number on our character pane or armory to measure it. Everyone will swiftly agree that skill is the most important thing -- more important than this talent or that reforge -- but without having a number right there to look at, everyone ends up ignoring it and instead focuses in on this talent or that reforge.
"Your DPS is low? Well you should really reforge your boots to haste," or "Why aren't you gemming for agility u noob!"
Let me assure you something: If you're underperforming by thousands of DPS and can't make it to the top of the meters, 95% of the time it's a skill issue. Even if your talents/gems/glyphs/reforging aren't very optimized, odds are you aren't really seeing that difference. But if you have even a moderate slip on skill issues, it's immediately apparent.
So let's today step back a moment and consider hunter skill once again. We're all used to obsessing over every tiny part of character optimization, so we're going to put skill into terms that correlate to that: DPS.
Optimization does matter
I want to say at the outset that character optimization does matter. Perhaps tweaking your talents or glyphs or reforging will only net you a theoretical 500 DPS gain -- something that is lost in the RNG of boss fights -- but on average, that's still a nice DPS gain, and all of those small tweaks add up.
DPS is, after all, like beer. Sure, you could sit there and drink down your beer, but you get more if you also grab the bartender's rag and wring it out into your mug. (Hint: Skill is your beer; those final tweaks and talents and reforges are the rag.)
I just often get frustrated when I see a hunter complaining about being low on the charts -- thousands of DPS low -- and the first thing that people always point out is optimization tweaks. Maybe he's half a percent under the hit cap or is missing a socket bonus that he shouldn't. Certainly these things will help, but it is not going to close that DPS gap; in fact, the hunter won't likely even notice the difference of those tweaks.
Any time you have a hunter who is substantially far below another hunter on the charts, you can be pretty sure that when you look at the logs the hunter with higher DPS fired more shots.
What I mean by hunter skill
Hunter DPS comes from a number of different factors: knowledge (how to optimize our character and the proper rotation), gear, buffs, RNG, and skill. By far the largest contribution is skill (well, buffs are up there, too).
Hunter skill is the ability to execute our rotation properly amidst the chaos of a boss fight. This is different from just knowing what your rotation is. This means you never stop shooting. When you're running out of the fire, or clumping up, or spreading out, or any of the other mechanics that require us to move, you never cease to fire your ideal rotation.
This means minimizing movement as much as possible to maximize Aspect of the Hawk uptime -- and advanced hunter techniques like jump-Disengage contribute to this. This also means flawlessly aspect dancing, moving instantly into Aspect of the Fox when you have to move during a Steady Shot or Cobra Shot part of your rotation and always being in Aspect of the Hawk when firing instant shots or standing still. This also includes timing DPS cooldowns to stack together and be used during the best possible moments in the boss fight.Maintaining your ideal rotation in the chaos of a boss fight can be hard. There are a million things going on, and you have to pay attention to all of them. You have to move out of the fire at a second's notice. It's very easy when moving to miss a Cobra Shot or Steady Shot here and there, or to delay your signature shot just a fraction of a second, or get tunnel vision on the fire and miss a focus dump and end up capping out on focus.
And to be fair, missing a shot here and there happens. But it has a DPS impact, and in most cases, that DPS impact is greater than most tweaking to your optimization.
DPS loss of missed shots
I did some playing around on FemaleDwarf to get some comparisons for this article, modeling a SV hunter in tier 12 gear. I considered a couple things: how much damage do you lose out on if you miss a Cobra Shot (and I modeled this with no Careful Aim talent) and how much do you lose if you delay your Explosive Shot a fraction of a second longer than you should.
So let's look at a boss fight. There's plenty going on; you have to move out of the fire (or into it) and reposition yourself from time to time, paying attention to the mechanics. Let's say that in the course of an average minute, you slip up only a couple times and skip a Cobra Shot -- your least important shot -- while moving.
Over the course of a 5-minute fight, that DPS loss is approximately the same as:
- Not spending your last three talent points at all
- Gemming for mastery priority, rather than agility
- Using no glyphs at all
- Using no enchants at all
If you're always in Aspect of the Fox during your Cobra Shots (a technique that some people deliberately macro in), that's also about the same as all of the above.
But here's the thing: If you did any of the above, you and I both know you would be called a noob and a huntard. No enchants? Idiot! Gemming for mastery? Fool! And yet none of that is nearly enough of a loss to cause a hunter to be doing thousands of DPS less than his potential.
But significant skill issues will.
Substantial missed shots
Most often when I see a hunter who's 4,000 or 5,000 DPS behind, it's because he's using the wrong rotation. But very often when I see a hunter who's 2,000 or 3,000 DPS behind and there are parses to compare to another hunter of the same spec, we quickly see that the issue is missed shots.
What we typically see is a hunter who's missing several Cobra Shots each minute and delaying Explosive Shot a few tenths of a second on average (or more probably delaying it substantially just a few times), possibly shooting in Fox often when he should be in Hawk.
All of a sudden, you add all that together and you have a loss of thousands of DPS. In fact, adding it together is the same DPS loss as:
- Using no gems at all, and forgoing all socket bonuses as well
- Not spending the last six talent points
- Not using a pet at all
Rule of thumb skill test
Here's a good rule of thumb test if you're concerned about the contribution of your skill to your DPS. Go to the boss target dummy (alone) and do your full maximum DPS rotation, with all cooldowns, for 5 minutes. Do this a few times, and note what your average DPS is.
You should be doing more DPS than this in any raid. After all, in a raid you have all of those raid buffs and group synergy boosting your DPS -- and boosting it a heck of a lot. The contribution of all raid buffs accounts for 29% of our test SV hunter's DPS -- about 8,000 DPS.
There are only two reasons why you wouldn't do a more DPS in raids than at the dummy: Either there's a boss mechanic that artificially lowers it (boss takes less damage during a certain phase, or is untargetable, etc.) or, more commonly, because you aren't doing the same thing in a boss fight as you are at the dummy.
If your DPS in a boss fight is the same or lower than your target dummy DPS, then you know you're failing to execute your rotation in the chaos of the boss fight. Improving your execution will gain you many times more DPS than any optimization tweak ever will.
For bonus fun, if you're able, you can do what I did in Wrath: Bring your entire 25-man raid team to the target dummy for a series of 5-minute DPS tests, using all cooldowns and consumables. That gave me an absolute target of what my potential DPS was. If I did less than that on a boss with no DPS-reduction mechanic, I knew that I had room to improve my rotation execution.
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
jonas Jul 14th 2011 6:42PM
One thing I found handy to increase reaction times was to change my keybinds to activate on keydown instead of key release. This used to require a mod to do, but it's now a UI option in game. Not sure if it's on or off by default, but I think most people should turn it on - it made a surprising difference for me.
JattTheRogue Jul 14th 2011 6:50PM
"Oh well. Id rather have fun and make mistakes and take dps loss, than stress over being perfect."
Ug. I hate this attitude. Sure, play the way you like, good on you. But I hate it when people start saying you either have to stress out and not have fun to play optimally or you can have fun but be sub-par. It's like the people who say "It's just a game, it's not a big deal" when you point out mechanics they miss on a fight or something. Some people have fun by being the very best they can be, squeezing every ounce of dps out. Maybe that's not you. But it doesn't mean other people are stressed because they want to do well.
That sort of attitude came to a peak for me in a ZA run I was in the other day. I was the only one kill totems, whether it was the healing/shield totems from Medicine Men or the lightning totems from bosses, and when I mentioned it and tried to get others to help out, they said it didn't matter, who cares, don't make such a big deal about it, it's a game, stop being so serious about it, etc. So I stopped killing totems too on the last boss during the eagle phase. The healer and the other two DPS died (the tank and I finished off the fight, with the tank surviving because he was a DK and self-healed enough and me using recuperate, cloak of shadows and a potion and killing the totems then). They weren't very happy, but it was their fault. They could have switched and killed a totem at any time.
The point of all that is you can't expect people to carry you if you don't want to do the work yourself. You don't have to "stress over being perfect," but if there's something you can change to improve your performance and you don't, then you shouldn't run anything with people other than potentially guild mates and friends who accept that. And I'd say even then it's showing a lack of concern for wasting other people's time, but it's up to your friends if they want to run with you or not.
Jaq Jul 14th 2011 7:11PM
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Wrong.
This isn't someone willfully being bad and being carried by the awesome like you, this is someone who can't be bothered to shave a few tenths of a second off their reaction time. Nowhere did this person say they were willing to ignore mechanics or do things wrong on purpose; they just don't feel like stressing over three-tenths of a second in reaction time.
Given the choice between running with someone like you, the so-called perfectionist, and someone who wants to have fun and just doesn't give a damn about matching an Elitist Jerks spreadsheet...I'll go with the latter. The latter seems far less full of themselves, for one thing.
Sunaseni Jul 14th 2011 7:45PM
Wrong, Jaq.
You know what he's talking about, don't try to twist the argument. His points are against the false dichotomy presented that "doing your best" is mutually exclusive with "having fun". This is not true; many people have fun challenging themselves to be the best that they can be. If you don't find that fun, do whatever you like. Feel free to "have fun" while playing suboptimally if you and your team accepts it. (I'm not admonishing you for doing so; it's simply mathematical that you are performing worse than someone who does care about that split second.)
I can twist the argument the other way, Jaq. "I'd rather play with someone who legitimately cares about other people enough to make his (and consequently my) run smoother and more fun by optimizing his play." But I know better than to accuse you of being an unfeeling monster, serial killer, and Garrosh sympathizer (Yeah. I went there.) for merely presenting an opinion I disagree with. I'm sure you're a wonderful person. Sometimes.
As an aside, what amuses me are people who ask accuse people who abide by Elitist Jerks to be unable to think for themselves. How do you think Elitist Jerks' contributers create their spreadsheets? Verifiable math. Optimizing DPS isn't a matter of opinion or thinking for yourself, but math, as WoW is a computer program.
sharlatan Jul 15th 2011 8:11AM
@JattTheRogue
You dont know that last fight in Zg at all do you?
The eagle phase cant be tanked on the last boss, its the tanks job to kill the totems, there is virtually no dmg on that phase if you move out, my pally tank has solo'd it with no trouble though it takes a while.
I'm all for people aiming high, but dont be so full of yourself when you clearly dont understand the mechanics of the fight.
JattTheRogue Jul 15th 2011 4:15PM
@Sharlatan: It doesn't matter whose job it is to kill the totems; if they're not getting killed and people are dying from them, it's everybody's problem. Obviously it was a problem in my run with the rest of the group not performing the mechanics because they all thought someone else would do it for them. That means they were doing it wrong. And sure, there's normally not much damage, EXCEPT FOR WHEN THE TOTEMS ARE LEFT UP, which was the entire point of what I said. And I never said anything about it needing to be tanked. I don't know what comment you read, but it doesn't seem like mine.
And how am I being full of myself by remarking on people not doing fight mechanics? No one killed the totems; people died. That's it; it's that simple. I guess I am saying I'm better than them because I did the fight mechanics, but so are most other players I've run with. Doing fight mechanics is supposed to be average, the baseline. If you want to crusade for everyone's right to ignore mechanics if they want, wonderfully, but I pray I never group with you.
thystle Jul 14th 2011 6:34PM
we are only 2/7 in firelands so my comments mostly came from my experience in bot and bwd. add to that my husband is the raid leader and any "extra" duties he gives to me if at all possible. i wasnt complaining by the way just curious if there was somthing i could improve upon and how those things play into always maintaining our rotation.
jonas Jul 14th 2011 6:45PM
Heh, it's likely because he knows what you're capable of and that you can be trusted not to mess up. I know I pick on our mage a lot for various special tasks (spellsteals, slows, multidots, add kiting, on-call target switches, etc) for the same reasons.
Snuzzle Jul 14th 2011 8:25PM
The thing is, when you say this or that is the equivalent of missing talents or enchants or gems, you're comparing that to a perfect cycle... which no one has. There's a tiny bit of lag, or you blink at the wrong time, or just plain misclick.
I get your point, but I would like to say that the reason we NEED to make sure our gear and spec is in impeccable condition is BECAUSE people wll make mistakes or have slightly imperfect cycles. The augments help close the gap between our fudge ups. :)
Sure if you're routinely firing your shots wrong, or prioritizing the wrong shot, or not aspect dancing, then yes your DPS will falter more than if you're missing a gem or two. A good example is on my ele shammy... earth shocking at 3 stacks instead of 9 was a DPS loss of a few thousand. But if you've got a sightly imperfect cycle (and we all do... even world first guilds though theirs are definitely better than mine) having gems is certainly a DPS gain over not.
Your article clearly highlights just how much every little bit helps :)
Cowboy Jul 14th 2011 6:51PM
No worries blizz is bringing us +40 skill gems and greater enchant of Keybinds in 4.3
Tygerwolfe Jul 14th 2011 7:12PM
Through all of my leveling in BM spec, any time I would go into a dungeon or PVP situation, I got nothing but compliments on my DPS - especially the DPS of my pet. I was even accused a few times of hacking to get it that high - but the truth is that I was just GOOD, and my pet (a Hyena) wasn't something most people expected to see in a BG or Dungeon because most hunters take a Cunning pet into a Dungeon and a Tenacity pet into a BG - but I've had my hyena since level 30, and while I have a full stable of alternate, fully trained pets, he's the one I work best with, so I keep him with me.
However, hitting 85, suddenly my PVE was still fine, and my PVP is great, but get me into a dungeon or a raid and... Well, to put it mildly, I suck.
I go into my alt spec, Marksmanship, when doing a dungeon or a raid now, because BM just doesn't pull the DPS #s that is needed in the high end dungeons and raids.
When I go to town on a raid dummy, as if it was a boss, blow all my cooldowns, throw traps, blast out shots at max rotation, my DPS can cap out at nearly 25k in bursts, with an average of between 7k and 9k on average. Now, I'm not gemmed at all, yet, I'm still gathering good gear, and I'm BARELY geared for Heroics. Not everything is enchanted, either.
But when I'm in a dungeon or a raid, I'm lucky if I hit 4k average DPS, and cap out around 6k or so RARELY. I've tried rotations listed online. I've tried "cheating" with SpellFlash. I've tried everything I and my Raid Leader and Guild Leader can think of to get my DPS up. I'd think it was just my gear...
However, I live in the house with another Hunter. She's similarly geared to me (though her GS is 1000 higher than mine, and we can't figure out why). Our BM and MM specs are identical. She also uses a ferocity pet (a cat), and when we're in dungeons and raids she's hitting as hard as I do on the training dummy.
We literally have our desks in the same room, and we've gone so far as trying me setting my actionbars up identical to hers, and her calling out the shots as she's doing them so I can do the same thing... and my DPS STILL sucks.
The only thing I can figure is that it's just what this article indicates - it's a skill issue. She's just... better at it than I am. I admit, I get confused in dungeons and raids. I"m so focused on mechanics and what our Leader has told me I need to avoid or specifically DO in certain situations, that I lose my rotation regularly. Then I might do something in the wrong order, or click the wrong thing - Widow Venom does nothing if the target isn't being healed, so that's a waste of focus. Sometimes I click into Fox so I can Steady Shot while moving, but forget to click back to Hawk on my next shot. If I were to macro Fox onto my Steady and Aimed shots, I'd still forget to switch back to Hawk before my next shot.
It really does all come down to skill... and the truth is, while better gear and equipment would help... what I really need to do is get my act together, because I hate being the "carried" member of the party. And until I can get my skill up... that's all I'll ever be.
clevins Jul 15th 2011 11:33AM
Some advice... Hope this helps.
1) keybind your basic shots so that they're all close by one hand. I play SV, so I have 1 as SS, 2 as Black Arrow, 3 as Explosive, 4 as Cobra, 5 as Kill, 6 as Rapid Fire. Arcane is F1, Concussive is F3. F2 is some CC. It does NOT matter if you follow those... my point is make them all easy to press with the hand that's not moving you around.
2) Get and use Power Aura or the built in one. Use a combat text mod or, again, the built in version. Both of these will alert you when abilities are off cooldown. I have a big, annoying red circle in the middle of my screen when Explosive is up. A purple sigil for Black Arrow, etc. I don't need to take my eyes off what's happening to know that a shot is up and I should fire it.
There's more. But making it easy to press a key and fire a shot and to know when your shots are available to be fired will help I think.
zubbiefish Jul 15th 2011 8:27AM
I think I can help you.
DON'T PANIC
If you mess up, move on, and fix it next time. If you start to beat yourself up over every missed shot, and misfire, you'll expend all of your energy worrying about what went wrong. While you're doing that, you're bound to bugger something else up, then you're really in the weeds.
How not to panic:
Practice. You have to go through the motions, a lot. Start slow, beat on the dummy for a good while, maybe even until you figure you can DPS it in your sleep. Do a bunch of dungeons, see if it made any difference. Once you're comfortable with the motions, you can work on the "harder" stuff.
From your post I read that you're working on everything, all the time. Life in the fast lane isn't for everyone. It's easier for most folks, men especially, to work on one thing at a time. Sort out the basics, then pick one thing you know you do poorly, and work on that. Once you're not panicking over that thing, choose another. Before you know it, you'll be a calm, cool, and collected DPS powerhouse.
thebitterfig Jul 15th 2011 10:15AM
"Now, I'm not gemmed at all, yet, I'm still gathering good gear, and I'm BARELY geared for Heroics. Not everything is enchanted, either."
It's only part of the whole, but get this at least partly fixed. Yeah, practice will help most, but being ungemmed is going to hurt. Heck, get a wrath-meta if it's cheaper, but get that 3% bonus to crit damage. Likewise, 30 Agi green-quality gems are 30 Agi more than empty sockets.
MadMac10 Jul 15th 2011 11:00AM
Let me see if I can help you too (though I am by no means the leet hunter I wanna be.)
First, I would recommend that you substitute Survival for your Marksmanship spec. Survival is much more compatible with heroics than MM. Your multi-shot will serve you much better in the trash pulls through most heroics (and your DPS will reflect that.) One thing I absolutely love to do in heroics is throw a frost trap on my tank when he is pulling a large mob of traps. This almost always procs Lock & load, but I usually ignore it and keep multi-shotting the tank's target (and a lot of the times, I have explosive shots left over after i've dumped my focus on multi...) Try doing this on the last boss in that dungeon in Deepholm (what was that again?!)
Again, Survival is also a lot more forgiving than Marksman with your rotation, so use it as a study aid. Once you have gotten your rotation down in a live-fire situation, then I would think about booting out that ol' BM spec for Marks. (Marks is also much better with leet gear, so consider it when you have gotten at least two pieces of your tier gear.)
I hope this helps, and I hope that Survival can be fun for you.
Good Luck!
MightyMuffin Jul 14th 2011 7:53PM
Sound advice and good reasoning. I have had to switch back to my hunter after having a mini-vacation with healing (the DPS queue lines had finally made me nerdrage...needed something that had less queue line). And so I'm having to get back into the groove of things. While our other hunter has decided to stick to SV, I'll be going MM.
However, I didn't really notice this, and if you mentioned this discount this. One problem I think most people forget about with DPS issues is not in-game. What kind of computer set-up is the player running? Going into a 10-man or 25-man raid takes a lot out of a computer, especially if its not a brand new one. Even having a laptop can significantly reduce performance. Working in 5-10 fps ranges during boss fights is not optimal and WILL reduce your potential dps.
Soon, I will be getting a new desktop and I am hoping that issue will help with huge lag and computer overload phases. However, hunters everywhere, remember that in-game skills and preparation is not all there is. Your home computer may be the true enemy.
WrecklessMEDIC Jul 14th 2011 7:54PM
Wow thanks for making me realize how much I suck...lol. I personally like playing alts and have 85's of every class. So to try and maximize every ounce of DPS and remember how to execute each classes perfect rotation would probably gimme an aneurysm. I'll stick with being sub-par thanks. :)
Tirrimas Jul 14th 2011 8:51PM
What "average" players (like you and me) need to remember is that articles like this, while useful for us, are aimed at people who raid consistently. Five-mans and solo content certainly doesn't require the same level of perfection that raiding does, even in casual raiding guilds.
I know my skill isn't good enough for progression raids with my guild; that's why I don't sign up for them. But I do enjoy doing retro raids with them once in a while.
Patrick Jul 14th 2011 8:55PM
You know what the number one factor that plays into skill? Experience. It's this age of a billion f'in alts that has ruined the player base as a whole. Not to sound like an elitist prick, but I've been playing the same character and spec since UBRS in Vanilla. That's more than 6 years with the same character. And guess what, I am damn good at it.
And yes, the game is about skill. There is a reason why at the start of the expansion the top end players are able to clear content within a matter of weeks, if not days. It's skill. Yes, a few of them are OCD with leveling, but when they get into dungeons they know what they are doing.
It's Joe the Huntard/Death Knight/Druid that will never be that good at the game. If you have more than one alt at level 85, chances are you are probably not very good at the game as a whole. Now, there are always exceptions to this, but it is rather prevalent.
Stick to one character, build it up, and become good. Through thick and thin, stick with it. Being able to stay on top of your class despite constant changes will make you a better player. Constantly switching only makes you a jack of all trades but a master of none.
WrecklessMEDIC Jul 14th 2011 9:56PM
I agree that sticking with one character for 6 years would make you really really good at that one thing. But I like variety and just playing the same character over and over gets pretty boring. I may not be a master of one class but I have the advantage of knowing how all classes work in the game. I definately don't know everything but I still consider myself very good at this game. Don't need to be the best at 1 class to be considered good. I'd rather be a jack of all trades anyways. :)