Scattered Shots: The DPS value of skill

The problem with skill is that there's no number on our character pane or armory to measure it. Everyone will swiftly agree that skill is the most important thing -- more important than this talent or that reforge -- but without having a number right there to look at, everyone ends up ignoring it and instead focuses in on this talent or that reforge.
"Your DPS is low? Well you should really reforge your boots to haste," or "Why aren't you gemming for agility u noob!"
Let me assure you something: If you're underperforming by thousands of DPS and can't make it to the top of the meters, 95% of the time it's a skill issue. Even if your talents/gems/glyphs/reforging aren't very optimized, odds are you aren't really seeing that difference. But if you have even a moderate slip on skill issues, it's immediately apparent.
So let's today step back a moment and consider hunter skill once again. We're all used to obsessing over every tiny part of character optimization, so we're going to put skill into terms that correlate to that: DPS.
Optimization does matter
I want to say at the outset that character optimization does matter. Perhaps tweaking your talents or glyphs or reforging will only net you a theoretical 500 DPS gain -- something that is lost in the RNG of boss fights -- but on average, that's still a nice DPS gain, and all of those small tweaks add up.
DPS is, after all, like beer. Sure, you could sit there and drink down your beer, but you get more if you also grab the bartender's rag and wring it out into your mug. (Hint: Skill is your beer; those final tweaks and talents and reforges are the rag.)
I just often get frustrated when I see a hunter complaining about being low on the charts -- thousands of DPS low -- and the first thing that people always point out is optimization tweaks. Maybe he's half a percent under the hit cap or is missing a socket bonus that he shouldn't. Certainly these things will help, but it is not going to close that DPS gap; in fact, the hunter won't likely even notice the difference of those tweaks.
Any time you have a hunter who is substantially far below another hunter on the charts, you can be pretty sure that when you look at the logs the hunter with higher DPS fired more shots.
What I mean by hunter skill
Hunter DPS comes from a number of different factors: knowledge (how to optimize our character and the proper rotation), gear, buffs, RNG, and skill. By far the largest contribution is skill (well, buffs are up there, too).
Hunter skill is the ability to execute our rotation properly amidst the chaos of a boss fight. This is different from just knowing what your rotation is. This means you never stop shooting. When you're running out of the fire, or clumping up, or spreading out, or any of the other mechanics that require us to move, you never cease to fire your ideal rotation.
This means minimizing movement as much as possible to maximize Aspect of the Hawk uptime -- and advanced hunter techniques like jump-Disengage contribute to this. This also means flawlessly aspect dancing, moving instantly into Aspect of the Fox when you have to move during a Steady Shot or Cobra Shot part of your rotation and always being in Aspect of the Hawk when firing instant shots or standing still. This also includes timing DPS cooldowns to stack together and be used during the best possible moments in the boss fight.Maintaining your ideal rotation in the chaos of a boss fight can be hard. There are a million things going on, and you have to pay attention to all of them. You have to move out of the fire at a second's notice. It's very easy when moving to miss a Cobra Shot or Steady Shot here and there, or to delay your signature shot just a fraction of a second, or get tunnel vision on the fire and miss a focus dump and end up capping out on focus.
And to be fair, missing a shot here and there happens. But it has a DPS impact, and in most cases, that DPS impact is greater than most tweaking to your optimization.
DPS loss of missed shots
I did some playing around on FemaleDwarf to get some comparisons for this article, modeling a SV hunter in tier 12 gear. I considered a couple things: how much damage do you lose out on if you miss a Cobra Shot (and I modeled this with no Careful Aim talent) and how much do you lose if you delay your Explosive Shot a fraction of a second longer than you should.
So let's look at a boss fight. There's plenty going on; you have to move out of the fire (or into it) and reposition yourself from time to time, paying attention to the mechanics. Let's say that in the course of an average minute, you slip up only a couple times and skip a Cobra Shot -- your least important shot -- while moving.
Over the course of a 5-minute fight, that DPS loss is approximately the same as:
- Not spending your last three talent points at all
- Gemming for mastery priority, rather than agility
- Using no glyphs at all
- Using no enchants at all
If you're always in Aspect of the Fox during your Cobra Shots (a technique that some people deliberately macro in), that's also about the same as all of the above.
But here's the thing: If you did any of the above, you and I both know you would be called a noob and a huntard. No enchants? Idiot! Gemming for mastery? Fool! And yet none of that is nearly enough of a loss to cause a hunter to be doing thousands of DPS less than his potential.
But significant skill issues will.
Substantial missed shots
Most often when I see a hunter who's 4,000 or 5,000 DPS behind, it's because he's using the wrong rotation. But very often when I see a hunter who's 2,000 or 3,000 DPS behind and there are parses to compare to another hunter of the same spec, we quickly see that the issue is missed shots.
What we typically see is a hunter who's missing several Cobra Shots each minute and delaying Explosive Shot a few tenths of a second on average (or more probably delaying it substantially just a few times), possibly shooting in Fox often when he should be in Hawk.
All of a sudden, you add all that together and you have a loss of thousands of DPS. In fact, adding it together is the same DPS loss as:
- Using no gems at all, and forgoing all socket bonuses as well
- Not spending the last six talent points
- Not using a pet at all
Rule of thumb skill test
Here's a good rule of thumb test if you're concerned about the contribution of your skill to your DPS. Go to the boss target dummy (alone) and do your full maximum DPS rotation, with all cooldowns, for 5 minutes. Do this a few times, and note what your average DPS is.
You should be doing more DPS than this in any raid. After all, in a raid you have all of those raid buffs and group synergy boosting your DPS -- and boosting it a heck of a lot. The contribution of all raid buffs accounts for 29% of our test SV hunter's DPS -- about 8,000 DPS.
There are only two reasons why you wouldn't do a more DPS in raids than at the dummy: Either there's a boss mechanic that artificially lowers it (boss takes less damage during a certain phase, or is untargetable, etc.) or, more commonly, because you aren't doing the same thing in a boss fight as you are at the dummy.
If your DPS in a boss fight is the same or lower than your target dummy DPS, then you know you're failing to execute your rotation in the chaos of the boss fight. Improving your execution will gain you many times more DPS than any optimization tweak ever will.
For bonus fun, if you're able, you can do what I did in Wrath: Bring your entire 25-man raid team to the target dummy for a series of 5-minute DPS tests, using all cooldowns and consumables. That gave me an absolute target of what my potential DPS was. If I did less than that on a boss with no DPS-reduction mechanic, I knew that I had room to improve my rotation execution.
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
Amanda A. Jul 14th 2011 10:07PM
I would argue the opposite-- I have tried every class (some only to level 25 or so, enough to get an idea of the flavor and decide I didn't care for it) and I like several classes enough that I plan to take them to 85 in time. The experience has made me a better player overall, because I picked up a better general understanding of how the overall game works and a sense of perspective. I'd be a much worse DPS if I hadn't tanked and healed first-- among other things, I seem to have a much better sense of utility than most DPSers in pugs; I'll pop out of shadow form to heal if the healer's down when DPSing on my priest, or use Army properly to take threat and soak damage if the tank (or healer, if tanking) dies and I have no brez available on my DK. I'd be a worse tank if I hadn't been a healer first; I'm very aware of LoS and mana, and I won't pull if I have any doubt about the healer needing to drink. And tanking and DPSing helped my situational awareness while healing, among other things. A lot of things do carry over from class to class, and from role to role. My opinion is that the best way to get good at the game is to try out every role, even if it's only from 1-60 or even 1-40. It's enough to get a solid idea of how most classes play.
Also, and using the term 'huntard' makes you look like a douchebag. There are bad players in every class. (Go ahead, ask me about the warrior in agi leather and a spellpower weapon I ran into in a heroic the other day.)
Saeadame Jul 15th 2011 1:53AM
Agreed, Amanda. While I am particularly attached to my resto druid and invest far more time into her than any other character, I do have several other characters at or approaching level 85. Personally, the experience of being those other classes hasn't helped me much on my druid (I levelled as resto pre-LFD tool - which was really, really stupid but damn if I don't know the class/spec inside and out), but it has helped me on my other characters - my healer and tank awareness is well-honed from my healing experience, and I feel playing damage and tank classes give me an interesting and unique perspective on the raid.
So, personally I think alt-leveling is extremely valuable. And, if you're in the same role as your main, I think you're actually in a really great place. I can pick up any other kind of healer class and learn the spells and talents, and do very well simply because I'm used to the healer mentality. Is it hard for me to switch from a healer to a damage dealer? Hell yes, but that's why I don't raid on my other-role alts, because I know my skill is inferior.
Snuzzle Jul 15th 2011 6:56AM
I absolutely agree with Amanda. I can always tell a DPS who also plays a tank or a healer simply because their awareness of those players' responsibilities is greater. The hunter who knows adds are coming and MDs them onto me or drops a frost trap. The mage who keeps an eye on his threat and uses Invis to reset it. The rogue who uses Recoup during an especially heavy-healing phase. The DK who knows his battle rez is not to be used any time any one dies on trash because he's played a resto druid back when battle rezzes were more precious. Etc etc.
Tanks and healers overall seem to have a much greater awareness of the playing field than DPS do. I don't know why. I know on my tank I am always scanning the field for adds, pats, or just in case that warlock backs up a bit too far and buttpulls. And I still do the same thing on all my characters now, regardless of their role. It's just habit. I can't say most DPS would be doing the same. They don't have to, they shouldn't need to... but it's always instantly apparent when they do.
Sure, really excellent players can learn these nuances without having ever played a tank or a healer, and really poor players can play every class in the game and still play poorly; but I feel my experience as other roles and classes has helped me immensely in my main role (tank). I feel like I'm a more well-rounded player than I would have otherwise been.
Serrox Jul 15th 2011 8:48AM
I play many alts, and all spec they can have I learn to play. Guess what? I kick ass on all of them. No its not me being big headed, but when I can jump on a alt in lower gear and out dps the mainspecs in almost every raid (guild or pug) i enter, I know I am good. I can also heal and tank on the alts with those talent trees.
Yeah I could just play one character in one spec, but I'd be bored to tears doing it. A good player is a good player. We have a hunter in our guild who went to an alt for cata and has now switched back, his hunter is in crappy gear, but he rocks the dps charts due to pure skill. If you need someone who can pull top dps, whilst cc'in, whilst kiting several adds and doing about 7 other tasks at once, we know who to call on. Skill always > gear.
thebitterfig Jul 15th 2011 10:29AM
RE: picking one class and sticking to it.
Be sure you didn't pick the wrong one. There are some hunters out there who'd do better to switch to mages. And mages who ought to be warriors. And warriors who ought to be druids, etc.
If you're choice is between the fuller class/spec (the one with the higher theoretical dps) and between the class/spec you can play best (the one you can squeeze the most dps out from), pick the one you're able to squeeze better. I'm sure we've all known that crazy BM hunter who stays BM and still is awesome, because they suck at the other specs but rock BM. Considering that player skill, timing, and execution are so important, it's doubly important to play a spec who's rotation fits for you.
To find out what's going to work for you... you'll probably have to play a fair number of classes to get a feel for how you do with them. I always had a rough go with rogues or DK, but I've got a nice touch with a Frost mage, pulling more out of them than I ought to have. For others, casters just don't go, and they'll tear up the place on a rogue.
To truly know a class, know yourself first.
Angus Jul 15th 2011 12:01AM
I'm surprised no one picked up on this.
The picture's wrong.
On the left we have the word skill and a Fargo Flintlocke's ultimate weapon.
On the right we have the word gear and the most badass, most skilled martial artist of the last 100 years.
Something needs to switch. Cause Bruce Lee ain't gear and the ultimate weapon ain't skill.
Artificial Jul 15th 2011 12:08PM
No. In the middle, we have the phrase "Skill vs Gear". On the opposite sides of the pic, we have figures representing these things, but they are not individually labeled as one or the other. As you note, it's pretty obvious which is which. Thus, the picture is fine and requires no modification.
John Skibinski Jul 15th 2011 11:54AM
@tygerwolfe
First off, Having someone in the same room calling off shots as she is hitting them will lower your DPS a substantial amount , not only are you being effected by in game LAG and your computer's lag but you are now throwing in the reaction time of both you and the other person, it takes time for the person to call it out and then time for you to hear and respond. Never do that again.
As for the lower levels, Hunter's are just OP until they hit 85, all classes are balanced around level 85.
Throw out Gear score for starters , gear score means nothing, it is very common for a lower gear score item to outperform a higher level item. Just look at the new firelands trinkets as proof in comparison to Fluid Death or Heroic Essence of the cyclone.
Grind your gear out of 5mans valor and JP and then Gem and Enchant it. You should be able to pick up a pretty steady muscle memory on your rotation while doing all that and see your DPS increase. Another thing to consider though is your PC and your Latency to the server
Inconnel Jul 15th 2011 12:36AM
I catch a lot of flak for this.. but I've leveled 4 huntners to 85, kept 2 and deleted 2. I am in the process of leveling 4 more hunters to 85, to go with the 2 maxed ones I have (worgen and troll are the maxxed ones).
Whether you use a plain old pc 101 key keyboard, a G13 gamepad, a razormouse or combination of all 3.. the point is to develop those instinctive keystrokes.
Me being an old-school sort, found one of the best ways to practice it by rote, to an extent. Thus the incessant leveling again, again, and again.. to practice , practice and practice the shot techniques against appropriate level bosses.
Oh, and one more item, probably the most important. The combat, kiting, and postional skills you learn in ragefire chasm, deadmines, shadofang keep, et.al. are all basic tools you will use over, over, and over again when fighting shannox, ryolith, baleroc, etc.
Margaret1Rivera Jul 15th 2011 1:43AM
To be or not to be DPS in world of warcraft? check it out the news part on http://www.gobuywow.com
arcaniadia6 Jul 15th 2011 2:20AM
Kinda off topic, but how are the specs faring compared to each other now? Is MM still clear winner single dps or is it much more closer with the CA nerf and Black Arrow buff?
naPS Jul 15th 2011 7:01PM
MM > SV > BM by a fair margin.
PocketFox Jul 15th 2011 12:16PM
Awesome, awesome article, Frostheim, thank you for writing it. In fact, I vote for an overall skill-versus-gear article, for all classes!
More than once I've gotten questions about how the hell do I manage to do the dps I do (one particular Marksman guildie of mine is astounded that I work the Survival spec so well XD ), and all I can tell them is I've been playing SV for years now; it's practically reflex.
And yet I'm still learning, and I know I still make mistakes. There are some fights where I lose track of my rotation/priorities and end up so focus-starved that it takes 1.5-2 Cobra Shots to regen enough to use Explosive Shot. >.< Plus I need to practice switching between Hawk and Fox as necessary (any advice?)
But overall, I can pretty easily top the meters in either 5-mans or raids, and really it all comes down to knowing my class as well as I do. I wish more people would realize that.
Tygerwolfe Jul 15th 2011 12:26PM
Thank you all for all your comments. We discovered part of the problem last night - I hadn't been stacking for Agi for some reason. My agility was over 2k lower than the other Hunter in our group.
The Guild started helping me gather gems, and my Raid Leader came with me and worked me through Reforging some of my gear. I'm now pulling only about 200dps less than the other Hunter, as long as I don't get overwhelmed. My global cool down was so long that the difference between her calling the shots and me calling the shots was a good two seconds - and if every 2 seconds, you're losing several hundred DPS, that tends to reflect in your overall. :P
As for switching the specs - I don't think I'm going ot do that, if just because I apparently can't quest not in BM spec. I do too much damage and my pet can't reliably hold aggro if I'm not in BM spec. I will try out a survival build over MM and see if that helps at all, though. :)
Again, thank you all for all your comments! I'm linking this to my guildies so they can see what was suggested as well.
michael9793 Jul 17th 2011 4:38PM
Tygerwolfe-
Remember to use Misdirect when you are questing! Absolutely the only type of pet that might even have a chance of holding threat off me is a BM one, but if I do one or two back-to-back MDs when I pull a quest mob, my pet will have threat lead well over me.
This is the Misdirect Macro I use:
#show Misdirection
/cancelaura Misdirection
/cast [@focus,help][help][@pet,exists] Misdirection
/dismount
(I include /cancelaura MD and a /dismount for questing and refreshing pre boss pull. I'll use it on my /focus in dungeons [the tank] but if they are taking a long time to pull something and it only has less than 8 seconds left, I'll hit the keybind again to cancelaura and allow me to recast it for a new 20 second duration. Dismount for questing so that I can hit that key and MD to my pet all in one keystroke.)
For Pet Growl, using Hunter's Mark as its toggle:
#showtooltip
/cast Hunter's Mark
/petautocastoff [group] Growl
/petautocaston [nogroup] Growl
This second macro is particularly useful for those looonng long levels between 1 and 76 where you don't have Misdirect. :-/
jbeleau Jul 15th 2011 1:41PM
You are comparing optimization of gear to skill. You are not talking about gear differences. This is completely miss labeled and you keep saying skill > gear when you do not actualy mean it.
I agree with the idea that, given roughly equal ilvl, a skilled player with glyph/spec/gem issues is still going to out DPS an unskilled player following with the cookie cutter advice of the elite.
To say skill is more important than gear you need to talk about differences in gear sets; Ie. a fresh 85 in greens and quest blues compared to an 85 that has finished gearing in 5-mans and is now raid ready. That is a gear difference. For example; A greatly skilled player with fresh 85 gear will not out dps a completely unskilled person in raid gear.
Frostheim Jul 15th 2011 2:10PM
"You are comparing optimization of gear to skill." -- and also talents. The point here isn't to compare skill and gear (I did a big gear comparison in Wrath, which is linked to from this article, which showed how much smaller gear contributions per tier were than people think -- around 20% per tier, as I recall).
The point here is to try to start putting a DPS value on skill and to point out that if you're thousands of dps behind, your problem isn't where to put those last few talent points, or reforging, or which glyph to use. The problem is skill.
Soulflame Jul 15th 2011 1:34PM
Nice article, although it forgets one important thing;
Lower dps hunter =/ worse hunter.
I have a hunter in my guild who outdpses me on most fights. However he is the last to move out the fire (so he still gets his cobra shot off with hawk, but is a lot more of a drain on the healers) he doesn't use the raptor strike glyph on fights where it really helps (like Nef and Beth'Thilac etc), he doesn't use a pet the raid can use, always uses cat (while we have a dk in all raids too providing that buff), sometimes he doesn't kill the right stuff and keeps on his current target (boss) instead of adds. His gear is better (he has 4pc T11, while after months I still have to get mine).
So while his dps is sometimes higher, I know I am a better hunter. ome classes can put out crazy dps, but die 3 sec later. The real conclusion should be that dps meters should only be used relatively for your own progress and increase in dps, not to compare players.
Frostheim Jul 15th 2011 2:10PM
Indeed I agree: dps alone isn't the only (or most important) measure of skill. However skill is the most important contribution to your dps.
iceveiled Jul 15th 2011 4:46PM
Not standing in fire, getting adds out of your healers face and having good movement is just as important as your shot rotation and gearing/gemming/enchanting.