Officers' Quarters: Split decision
by Scott Andrews 
Jul 18th 2011 at 9:00AM
Just about every long-time WoW player has, at some point or another, found themselves at a crossroads, wishing they could split into multiple copies like a mage. Should you stay with the guild you joined and the friends you've made there, or should you go join that other guild so you can see more content? That's probably the most frequently asked question that I receive.
This week, a player faces a similarly difficult crossroads, but in this case, one of the guilds she has to choose between wants to make her the guild leader.
Hey,
I'm currently split between two guilds. On the one hand, I have Guild A, which has been my home for two years, and more or less died about two months ago (by died, I mean that the Guild Master has completely abandoned it, and the only officer that logs on more than once every three-four weeks is the one who's recently returned from a WoW break). The GM has been swapping which of his characters has the "big rank", and never logs on to actually play, let alone to give any explanation as to why he no longer cares for the guild. A few people still log on regularly, mostly, I believe, out of a hope that Guild A will return to its former glory.
On the other hand, I have Guild B, a serious but lighthearted and social raiding guild, which I joined on my main just over a month ago, when it was apparent that Guild A had been abandoned. I told myself that only my shaman would move over to B, but in the end, I preferred B's humorous banter and regular conversations over A's graveyard-like silence, and moved over all but two of my alts.
Yesterday, after the guild master of A refused to answer any of my messages asking what's going on with the guild, I got in touch with a GM. Proceedings are now moving forward to move the position of guild master over to the one active officer we have left – providing our current one does not log in before the 24th July. Our active officer has already moved me up to Officer Alt – the highest rank he can manage for now – and we have begun the work of cleaning up the guild as much as we can for now.
The thing is, our active officer has a baby girl, and cannot commit the time to actually running a guild – he has told me he is going to hand the mantle over to me, as I am the one that started proceedings to wrestle control of our guild away from those who simply don't care for it anymore.
I just don't know how to run a guild as it is, let alone continue with my raiding commitments in Guild B. I feel split between the two, and I desperately don't want to leave one or the other entirely. Nor am I quite sure how to split my time equally between my raiding guild, in whom I have already found friends, and the guild home of two years that I am desperate to save.
Any help?
Thanks,
Split.
Hi, Split.
My advice is to do one of two things:
1. Fully commit to building Guild A into a viable raiding guild again. Move your toons back, find more officers to help you, recruit players, and start raiding.
OR
2. Give up on Guild A and stay in B.
You can't do both. If you aren't fully committed to A, then you should not take over that guild. A guild without a committed leader simply can't survive -- and you've seen that firsthand already. You should not become the guild leader of A if you're still involved with B at all.
The drama factor
This is very much a personal decision. You have to weigh the security that Guild B provides and the fun you're having there against the potential you see in A and your desire to resurrect it. You could stay in B and help A if you want to. However, it's extremely difficult to be involved with two separate guilds without causing some kind of drama or backlash against you.
It's a sad fact, but jealousy is human nature. Your continued involvement with Guild A may annoy members of Guild B, and members of Guild A may already resent you for pulling out most of your toons. Straddling the line like that is basically a no-win situation for you. That's why I recommend choosing one or the other.
The more strenuous path
Since it doesn't sound like you have much experience leading a guild, I will warn you: Rebuilding Guild A will be no easy task. It's difficult in general to reboot a raiding guild in the middle of an expansion when that guild is not actively raiding. During this expansion, when so many active raiding guilds are short players, it will be doubly difficult.
Your best bet will probably be to reach out to former members and tell them about your plan, in the hope that they'll return. I don't mean to discourage you -- I'm just trying to prepare you for what you might face.
In fact, it might be wise to feel out some former members regarding their interest in rejoining before you choose between guilds. Having a better idea about the likelihood of rebuilding A could help you to make this decision.
Either way, it sounds like it will be a very tough choice, and I don't envy you the situation. Good luck.
/salute
Recently, Officers' Quarters has examined how strong new leadership can create a guild turnaround, the pitfalls of promising more than you can deliver, and lessons learned from Scott's own guild demise. Send your own guild-related questions and suggestions to scott@wowinsider.com.
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
MattKrotzer Jul 18th 2011 9:21AM
My advice: Let Guild A die. You'll always have your fond memories of its heyday, but the work required to revive and rebuild a guild is quite a lot to handle, and you seem pretty happy with Guild B.
I've been there, having taken over my RP guild and rebuilt it several times throughout Burning Crusade as players ebbed and flowed into the raiding scene. It was hard, but I don't regret for a second the day I finally said "Enough is enough" and closed it down. Being a good guild leader takes a LOT of commitment, and it can really eat away at the amount of fun you have playing WoW.
If I logged in to "What's going on with the guild?" all the time, I'd lose interest in logging in too. Go enjoy Guild B. You'll get more out of it, I think.
Matt P Jul 18th 2011 9:58AM
I had to deal with a similar situation in BC with the first guild I was really active in. I loved the people in that guild and I still do, but the stress involved in trying to keep it operating at its former level with no help from anyone save for an enthusiastic but socially awkward paladin made for a crappy game experience. As much as I hated to, I had to move on.
Definitely take Scott's advice on gauging people's interest in returning to guild A. It won't give you a perfect picture of who will be willing to help, but I just might let you know it's time to move on.
Parrin Jul 18th 2011 10:46AM
Discuss the matter with the officers in Guild B. If they're amenable to accepting the remaining active players from Guild A, post it in Guild A's message board. Give it a time frame (3 months should be reasonable), and check in with Guild A a few times a week.
Bronwyn Jul 18th 2011 10:54AM
Definitely agreeing with this post. My first guild ever that wasn't just a few family members started to die after the GM took an extended break and passed the torch to our raid leader, who frankly was awesome at raid leading, terrible at being a GM. The guild took a long time to die- slowly the officers trickled away, and then within about a 1 month period GM jumped multiple times, with the old GM returning and trying to get things back to their former glory, etc. It just didn't work, though; you have to be willing and able to put in an ENORMOUS amount of work for this to work and we just didn't have that anymore. Our original GM transferred servers, a few people left the game for other things, there was guild-bank drama, and eventually I ended up with GM. After about a month we closed it down; got together, had a goodbye party with the remaining members, and divvied up what was left in the gbank amongst everyone.
I still miss it, but I also know that closing down was the right choice for me and for everyone else, because we've since been able to move on and find new friends and such, even if I'm still searching for that "perfect" guild.
Tri Jul 18th 2011 9:34AM
Convince whoever still plays in guild A to join you in guild B :D (if at all possible)
dengarsw Jul 19th 2011 1:23AM
I'd go with this. If you wanna get guild A back up at a later date, do it.
The biggest problem I'm seeing from folks hoping guilds these days is the "I like this guild, but it's dying" problem, and more often than not, that player isn't part of the solution. No one likes hearing it, but if your guild is worth anything, there should be a way you can help them out, even if it's something small like asking the GM how they want recruitment handled and what you can do to help.
You'd be surprised at the little things that can really help a guild out. I recruited for a guild in another game during school breaks. 5-10 minutes 3-4 times a day doing interviews or reviewing applications helped bolster our ranks and get us some new blood.
People who don't wanna do the work often make up for it by guild bouncing. I only changed guilds once every few years as they died under me, but having to prove yourself all over again, again and again and again, re-earning raider slots, reputation with guildies, etc... takes a lot more time than simply chipping in a bit.
Sanguinal Jul 18th 2011 9:37AM
I'd suggest letting guild A die as well. I took over a guild that had a terrible leader because I had friends in it, and while we've plodded along nicely I truly do not like being a guild leader. I can't escape either, because my officers have decided I do a good job and none of them are daft enough to fall for my repeated ninja promotions to guild master.
So unless you actually want to try your hand at running a guild I'd suggest legging it as fast as possible. If you take it over out of a sense of responsibility you'll get trapped by it. Once you've invested time and effort into it you'll not likely want to drop it into the hands of the first person to accept the promotion, and in my experience the ones who are best suited to running the guild after you are totally against clicking that damn accept button.
MattKrotzer Jul 18th 2011 10:01AM
"Once you've invested time and effort into it you'll not likely want to drop it into the hands of the first person to accept the promotion, and in my experience the ones who are best suited to running the guild after you are totally against clicking that damn accept button."
This can't be said enough.
relmatos Jul 18th 2011 9:43AM
I think the choice is simple.
If you think you can get enough people you trust to get guild A up and running, go ahead and do it.
If you doubt you can, no point fooling anyone and just explain things to those who care and move to guild B. If possible, also try to bring those to the new guild as well. Hopefully people will understand.
Strawder Jul 18th 2011 9:49AM
My wife and I were recently in a guild after having not been in any guilds for about 8 months. The guy seemed really nice and friendly, etc, and he sold us on the ideas he was pitching for the guild.
So we joined up, and almost immediately (within a week) he wanted to make us Officers in the guild. It was a small guild and just beginning, but there were plenty of other possible candidates and he assured us we were the best choices. I tried to talk him out of it, but he was having no part of that, so we reluctantly accepted. He was on quite frequently, and we figured the three of us would have no problem, especially since the GM was so active, running things.
And then he disappeared. He would log on every few days onto a lower level character, never really move from the place he logged in at, check whatever e-mails I'd sent him about guild activity, etc, reply to them via e-mail and then he was off again for several days. This went on for weeks.
About that time, we had some good connections going from both within his guild and outside of it, and my new characters were pumping XP into his guild while I leveled up, but I was beginning to have my thoughts as to what was really going on.
I got the impression the dude was using us to level his guild, and run it for him while he played on other servers, etc. He was part of a multi-game clan, I found out, and I knew from his own admission he was single with no kids and not many responsiblities. So why, as the GM, could he only get on about once a week, when someone like myself, who was married with two young children, manage to be on several times a week, and all night on my nights off?
Long story short, we formed a new guild of our own for part-time players, and left his guild and began pulling our characters out slowly. Almost as some kind of irony, he logged back in about this time and saw we were leaving, and majorly flipped his shit. I got several e-mails asking me why I was leaving, etc, etc. Together, I replied that things just weren't working out and we were going to join a small, family and friends guild.
That set him off big-time. I finally got an e-mail telling me he'd lost all respect for me and to never bother him again. I wasn't the one sending pissy e-mails in-game. That really irked me, so I told him just what a no-show GM he was, and the real reason we were leaving, that I wasn't going to put all that work into something that the real owner couldn't even be bothered with.
It was a big messy thing, and I was ticked off for days about the whole thing, but I don't regret one minute of it now. The new guild is doing great and we keep slowly adding new parents and professionals to the guild, and guild chat is both lively and mature. Plus, all the work that's being done to the guild is helping out all of us, and I take the time to verbally point out and thank the contributors in Guild Chat. They all know my schedule and when to expect me online.
Take from all of that what you will, but my point is sometimes you just got to do what your gut tells you.
Door Jul 18th 2011 10:05AM
I'm in a similar situation. The guild I ran to took a crash in attendance after Cata was released and real life started to intervene, so we moved to a more active guild. THat guild leader had a melt down and nerdraged/gkick all/faction change. We decided to rebuild the guild we ran prior to the merge and we gave everyone an open invitation.
Some came, some went, but now we are stuck with about 7 active players with nobody willing to step up to the plate and raid lead. Recruiting is very difficult right now-especially if you aren't a level 25 guild (only 13 right now).
Don't split yours toons. You would drive yourself mad. Choose one and stick to it. I would suggest moving to Guild B and letting others lead. If you have the time and desire to run a guild, go for A, but keep in mind, its a big commitment that takes a lot of time to manage- especially if you plan on raiding.
imsplittoo Jul 18th 2011 10:29AM
I will tell you being split between 2 guilds is very tough! I currenlty have my main in a raiding guild and my "new main" and alts in a more social guild. The raiding guild is great I have a lot of friends there, but I am not found of the new raid leader and don't want to raid much anymore because of that. I also really love my main, so I kinda want to pull that toon out and bring it back to the social guild but I don't at the same time because if I do choose to raid more in the future I want to raid with them, with the exception of the new raid leader. But yes, scheduling things between the 2 guilds is tough because you don't want to "double book" yourself by accident. Also, finding a good middle ground between the 2 guilds is also tough, and one week you spend more time on one toon and not the other, then you feel as tho you neglected the other toon/guild. So in my opinion from my own experience, I would have to say choose one guild and put your all into it! That way your game stays fun and you have less stress over a game that is supposed to be a fun past time, no since in ruining it for yourself! Good luck for both of us!
AudreyR Jul 18th 2011 10:20AM
The bit of advice I have is to stop trying to hold on to the past. It's gone. Regardless of what decision you make, things aren't going to be the same.
Even if you're wildly successful in rebooting guild A, things will be different. There'll be a different managerial style. New faces.
It's not a bad thing.
Given that, while others are suggesting to let A go, your actions sound like you're still anxious to see it succeed, but are afraid that you may not be up to the challenge.
I suggest taking Scott's advice, but with some addendums and slight changes.
The very first thing you need to do is get your priorities in order. Which is more important in the short term and what would you like to happen in the long term. You know this is a big deal.
If raiding and atmosphere is more important now and in the future, then cutting leaving guild A is the way to go.
Note that this doesn't mean cutting ties. You can still keep in touch and run heroics with your friends from the guild.
If, however, improving guild A is more important, them this choice is obvious, as well.
Things you can do to alleviate your concern over your ability to lead for interim are simple. Make sure you can contact the permanent leader when they can't log into the game.
If you don't want to get personal with texts, you can set up e-mail accounts for this purpose.
Next both of you should work on a plan of action. Before you can regrow the guild, you need to know what your goals are. Create a Mission Statement so that current and new members, as well as officers, can get on board.
Create your rules as soon as possible as well as consequences for each. This will be invaluable in helping to take care of the nasty part of guild leading while you concentrate on early recruiting and other guild building business.
Get a plan going. Make sure it's flexible and realistic. Nothing can hurt morale like a plan that fails.
Either way, keep in mind there may be some hurt feelings. Those that were listed in the article.
renork Jul 18th 2011 11:06AM
Is guild A on Hydraxis? SFT by any chance?
If it is I hate to say it but give up Guild A and move over to Guild B.
Trisnic Jul 18th 2011 11:12AM
The idea posted by some here to speak with Guild B about people from Guild A possibly joining is a very good one.
I've restarted a dead guild. It's tough. You might as well be forming a brand new guild because it's the same amount of work, and the amount of work in this is also insane. Splitting your time between resurrecting a dying guild and raiding with another is just too much work and will often lead to burnout. The advice in this article about picking one guild and sticking to it is spot on. The advice from others about talking to Guild B about bringing in the Guild A players is also spot on. The most important thing that any player in this situation should think about is what will make them the happiest, ultimately and truthfully.
We have a few raiders with our guild who also raid with a second guild (without mention of this when applying but it has slipped out). We also have several guild members who have alts in other guilds. Generally people tend to pick one guild after some time has passed.
Gimmlette Jul 18th 2011 1:39PM
I think that while it's admirable that you wish to preserve Guild A, that's not what should be done here. It's going to be hard but unless you are fully, completely and totally committed to making A work, you will only be banging your head against the proverbial wall.
What do you want Guild A to be that is going to attract people? You need a clear idea and vision for how Guild A is different from every other guild on your server or you'll never attract and hold people. Guilds pop up every week on my server, so you are competing with those as well as Guild B where you are happily raiding.
My advice would be to talk to your officers in B. Ask if they would have room for people you know from A who would fit the culture of B. If B will take people, then ask those active people in A if they would be interested in coming with you to B. If you do wrest control of A from the current GL, use it to clean up the guild bank. but resist the urge to empty it out before you leave. Send everyone not going to B an in-game letter explaining why you are leaving. Attach something, like a green item or a potion or something that will cause the letter to come back to you after 30 days. You'll have an idea of just how often those stragglers actually log on. Once you've done all of that, repromote the former GL, turn out your light and head over to guild B. I think you'll be happier.
I've been through the demise of a guild and even tried to save it. I have wonderful memories of what we did and the people I knew, but I am so much happier where I wound up. Guild are fluid. You should be in a place that makes you happy and, given what you've said in your letter, running a guild probably isn't going to make you happy.
Good luck.
uglyview Jul 18th 2011 3:34PM
There's no rule that states a guild must be a raiding guild. At one time your Guild A was but it seems that in the world of WoW, every guild has an inevitable life span. Some disband, some become dormant and some simply morph into a quiet place for those players who like to solo or pug. There's no reason to choose guilds. You can be in both and if someone in this guild A wants to step up and try to rebuild it to raiding level, let them. If not, let the guild know that it's a social guild with no effort for raiding. People who want to raid will leave, people who want to simply play at their leisure will stay.
cnjgame Jul 19th 2011 4:23AM
I have been a couple of times in your situation. It took me many, many months letting guild A go.
If the guild only has you as the driving force to keep the guild going, then you become a slave of your guild. If you are not on, others slowly and gradually feel less compelled to stay on. If you do not initiate and manage activities reguarly and ensure they commence, others do not feel to commit to new activities and to come on. Then, slowly and gradually people log less and less, start playing on other servers, other games or RL.
Guild recruitment is very hard for a low activity guild. Most people want to be able to raid at least 1-2 times a week. At least people expect some activities each week and that they do commence. If they can not find it, they move on. People who just join your guild do not feel any commitment to stay. They left their old guild because they where not happy with it, usually to find one who can answer their desires, so their expectations of a new guild are high.
If you do not have the fun, the drive or the skills to initiate and manage activities and the guild, then you have to find 1-2 people who do, very fast. Those people are very rare and usually enjoying being in bigger guilds where there are enough people to answer their initiatives. If you are able to attract such a person and that person is excited to bring the guild back to life, then that person might get dissapointed very fast if he can not get the guild in the same gear and excitement level that person is. This result in dissapointment and the urge to find another guild who reward his initiatives.
I have seen many GM's staying in their dying guilds for months and months, for the soul reason they like the people in it and / or feel responsible to keep it alive. Some even stay because they see it as a failure not being able to resurrect their guild. Some of them end up quiting wow because they do not have fun anymore. Others getting revived and their fun back in joining new guilds.
The best thing I have done in WoW is to leave the dying guild A and find another guild B with a similar feel and people. About 6 of my old guildies ended up joining my new guild over a period of one year (!!) And guild B was even on another server! They make the new guild even more feeling like home.
So, I suggest you consider the same.