Scattered Shots: Hunter pet changes -- QQ or HTFU?
Today's header video is a sneak peek at the hunter class in patch 7.3, after the implementation of dual wielding and after minimum range is finally removed from the game. It also looks like we get a melee disarm, which I agree would be nice. Pillar humping is clearly still a vital arena strategy, however. This look at the awesomeness to come should help soften the pain of the unpleasant subject of today's column.
The hunter pet stance changes blow.
There's just no sugarcoating it; the changes to pet stances simply make our lives worse than they were before. If you want to hand me a petition to repeal the changes, I will happily sign it. However, it seems likely the changes are something that we're just going to have to put up with, like ads to buy gold online, fake sparkle pony phishing emails, and the continued existence of elves. So, too, must we apparently suck it up and deal with increasingly unruly pets that need a stronger guiding hand.
Join me after the cut as we discuss the changes in more depth and ask the question of what is to be done about it. Do we hunters try to wail up a paladin-like storm of QQ in hopes of effecting a change, or is it something deliberate and we just have to HTFU?
I have to say, I spent a lot of time messing around with the stance changes and trying to figure out what the intent of them was. Normally, even if I strongly disagree with a Blizzard decision -- like minimum range -- I at least understand it. But the pet stance changes have me a bit baffled still. For a while, I was holding off writing about this certain that some kind of hotfix or at least explanation would be forthcoming, but that isn't looking like the case.
So let's start with a quick recap of what has changed and why that change is bad for hunters.
Hunter pet stance changes
- Aggressive stance Gone entirely. For PVE, this is mostly a good thing, since aggressive stance was mostly a way for hunters who didn't know any better to wipe their 5-mans. For PVP, many hunters used aggressive stance to try to break rogues and druids out of stealth (though based on my conversations with PVPers who know far more than me, that's not something the top hunters ever used in PVP, anyway). They had macros to break stealth and wanted to control where their pets went. I think aggressive stance was probably fair game.
- Assist stance This is our replacement for aggressive stance. While in assist, your pet will attack things that attack you just like defensive stance, and they will attack things that you attack. The new thing with assist is that your pet will change targets if you do. The downside is that your pet waits a few seconds before changing, which means it waits before engaging, too. In AOE situations, your pet gets confused and spends most of its time running around helplessly. People are still reporting various assist bugs, but so far I'm not seeing anything replicable outside of AOE.
- Defensive stance This is the brutal change. I mean, if assist sucks, then we can ignore it like we did aggressive -- except that when in defensive stance, your pet will now only attack when you get attacked. It will not run out to attack what you're attacking the way it did before.
- Passive stance Unchanged.
Ultimately, the effect of this change is we lose the ability to just ignore our pets most of the time and let them do their thing. On the average boss fight, we used to be able to just DPS, and our pet would run in and DPS with us. It would attack the first thing we attacked and stay at it until it was dead or we told it otherwise. This reduced manual pet control to occasionally forcing the pet to change targets and to managing its health.
Assist stance sounds good, but it really doesn't do the same thing that the old defensive stance did. To begin with, we have to manually send our pet in to attack, or it will just hang out for a few shots before joining. Then I often find that I'm changing targets when I don't want the pet to change targets, but with assist, the pets runs after. And of course, AOEing in assist is just silly.
The solution, of course, is just to do what we did back in vanilla: Keep our pets in passive stance and manually control everything they do. Back in vanilla, the pet AI was horrible (you new guys have no appreciation for how much better it is now), and we had to manually send our pets out and call them back for every attack or risk chaos.
I know assist stance sounds like a minor change, but in practice, playing with it just doesn't work and forces manual pet control as the best option.
It's worth noting that yes, you can macro your pet attack into your shots -- but then your pet always attacks what you're targeting, and that is part of the problem with assist stance. I want my pet to attack what I tell it to, and if I don't say anything, then to attack whatever I'm attacking and not stop until I tell it to switch.
I want the old defensive stance.
Is making it harder the point?
After finally realizing that yes, Blizzard intends pets to work the way they're working now, I thought that perhaps the plan was to make pet management harder. After all, you can make an argument that pet management should be harder.
To some extent, having the pet AI handle itself, especially for SV and MM specs, was tantamount to just adding a couple of thousand DPS to our class without our having to do anything at all. Sure, the melee folks get the same thing with their auto-attack, but we also have an auto-attack in addition to the pet.
The only danger with the pet is that it could die and thus drop our DPS.
Perhaps the point of the change is that we have to pay for those extra thousands of DPS with some additional portion of our attention. I could understand that point of view, though it certainly punishes BM a bit more than the other specs.
But is that the point of the change?
It seems like assist stance was, in concept, a way to make pet management even easier. With assist, if you switch targets, your pet automatically switches too. To me, assist stance sounded like a great thing for new hunters -- the crutch stance while you're still leaning all there is to learn about our complex set of tools. When you aren't worried about optimizing your DPS, assist stance is a great beginner's stance.
Assist basically allows you to ignore pet control entirely, though in practice it happens at the cost of some DPS. But if assist's design goal is to make pet control easier or more intuitive for newbie hunters, that clashes with the idea that the stance chance is supposed to be a deliberate move to make pet management more difficult.
What I'd do
Honestly, my best guess is that the design decision around the pet stance changes was to make things easier and more intuitive for new hunters. I don't think the point was to make us pay more to get the toughest and coolest-looking DOT in the game. Particularly with the push to acquire new players via free-to-play until level 20, this seems targeted at making life easier rather than harder. I suspect the actual implementation just had unintended consequences ... but then, why haven't we seen a fix yet?
If it were up to me, I would actually keep assist stance. I'd keep it working just like it does now (and keep pursuing those bug reports to see if we can track down what's really happening there).
I would change defensive stance back to what it was before. Sure, you could argue that it's more thematic that the pet just defends you when in defensive stance, but mechanically, that's doing the exact same thing that assist stance does, only without the attack. Right now, I don't see any practical situations in which you'd want your pet in defensive stance but not in assist.
If thematic concerns are important, you could change the name of defensive stance to attack stance. When in that stance, your pet attacks the first thing you attack and keeps attacking until it's dead or you call it off. Heck, if you really wanted, you could even remove the defending aspect from the stance -- though I wouldn't.
QQ or HTFU?
So we're left with the two possible theories on why the pet stances changed the way they did. Either forcing manual pet control was an accidental casualty, or it was a deliberate way of making us have to pay more attention to get our pet auto DPS.
This makes the solution to either QQ or HTFU. Either we can complain and scream and reason with Blizzard and beg for a return to the old defensive stance functionality, or we can suck it up and start manually controlling our pet's every move the way we did back in my day.
Despite the negative connotations, I don't mean to imply that QQing is a bad thing. I just wrote an entire column complaining about this, and you'd better believe that part of it is in hopes of attracting attention to the issue. But I know a lot of people have been complaining very loudly for a while now with no change in sight.
Personally, what I'd really like is a blue post telling us what the design goal was behind the change, so we know one way or another.
Okay, what I'd really like is a hotfix changing it back; but like minimum range, I can be content with manning up if I was told that the whole point was to make me man up.
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
raukgorth Jul 28th 2011 2:34PM
Have you tried the move command?
If the pet was attacking something and it died and then you told the pet to move somewhere it will simply ignore the command and return slowly to your side. After that the pet would slowly move to the targeted location.
There are more bugs with the move command while in combat.
Molarahm Jul 28th 2011 3:15PM
^ this. So irritating. Why are you bringing all the mobs back to me?! I told you to run further out!
Gaurisk Jul 28th 2011 6:18PM
Aggressive stance did exactly the same thing, IIRC. Fluffy would finish demolishing one mob, then run back to me before looking for another target.
I imagine it was a way to keep Aggressive pets from running off and murdering their way across whole zones while the Hunter wondered where they had gone to, but I see little excuse to keep that part of the old AI now.
Draelan Jul 28th 2011 8:42PM
The issue with the pet returning to it's commanded location/returning to the hunter's side before finding a new target while in Aggressive Stance would have been simple enough to fix just by adding a priority. Something like:
1. Pet fights current target until it's dead.
2. When current target is dead, pet checks for other enemies that it or the hunter are currently in combat with, and attacks those. (unless they're CC'd. Also, prioritize targets nearest to the pet, first, unless commanded otherwise)
3. If there are no other in-combat targets, return to commanded location/hunter's side.
4. Search nearby area for new target to attack, since it's in Aggressive stance.
Simply by adding a check for nearby in-combat targets before the return action, the pet wouldn't be dragging additional mobs into the Hunter's melee range before picking a new one.
Pwnzoar Jul 28th 2011 10:59PM
Yes....The problems with the move command are particularly noticeable when I'm FD'd right before a wipe and my pet insists upon attacking the AoEing boss/mob right on top of me despite my repeated commands to GTFO.
dumaal Jul 29th 2011 7:11AM
I think for the average hunter the new stance is all right. For top PvE hunters though, any of them were not good enough, not now, neither before. I'll explaing why:
When you move your pet, you want it to move fast, so a top PvE hunter will choose spending 1 pet talent point in Dash/Dive (+80% moving speed). Boar's Speed and Charge are either not good enough or their points can be spent much better with other talents.
When attacking that +80% moving time translates into DPS, and when retreating, it translates into less damage for the pet (i.e. no dying for moving to slow out of crap). The problem with Dash/Dive is that they are on CD and poping it every 30 secs automatically is not helpful at all. So...you have to macro it, micromange it at a certain level, both when you send your pet to attack a new target and when you call your pet to you to save him. Pet movement macros are therefore a must if you aim for top performance.
Another thing which we can make great use of is the fact that we have the Serpent Sting refreshing itself on every Cobra or Steady Shot. That means that ideally we shot 1 serpent sting for every mob or boss we kill. A Serpent Sting macro seems the ideal place to manage pet attack as well. That macro should include apart from SS, Dive and PetAttack as well.
All the above are mostly irelevant to the stance changes in the last patch, though I whould agree with Frostheim that Assist stance was of better use before.
iceveiled Jul 28th 2011 3:26PM
Absolutely frustrated by the new stances. I just put my pet on passive and manually send him in to attack now.
Whoever thought the new stances were a good idea needs to get their head checked.
Noyou Jul 28th 2011 6:24PM
Yeah. I liked aggressive stance more for world pvp when the enemy would come back and rez your pet would tell you when and where they were before they could get away or sneak back on you. It was also nice if defending a flag. Defensive stance used to work fine for me. Now, as many have said it seems to take a hit or 2 for your pet to react to it. The other thing not really brought up is how they broke pet travel again when you are mounted. Especially for locks and mages who have cooldowns or use resources to re-summon. It's almost like the developers got euphoric giving us all these nice quality of life changes then suddenly lost their minds.
furrama Jul 28th 2011 8:07PM
But, for me anyway, this doesn't seem to work on boss fights. I can put him on passive, but he'll still switch targets for some reason when I shoot at something else. It doesn't happen when I have time to experiment, just when there's fire on the ground and a dot on my head and I don't know what's wrong.
Honorshammer Jul 28th 2011 3:53PM
I've noticed odd behavior where the pet will just stand there doing nothing. Like at the start of Beth. I'm not sure what stance I was in.
Astoreth Jul 28th 2011 4:14PM
I'm a warlock, and my felhunter does the same thing. I will be HAMMERING my petattack macro and he'll just sit there with his tongue lolling out.
I think he's doing it on purpose.
b.pothier Jul 28th 2011 4:31PM
The reason is because Beth'tilac starts the fight off with that stupid AOE spray crap. Your pet then targets beth and stares longingly at a target it can't reach.
I usually spam call my pet to me and then once the spinners start dropping and REAL targets are acquired, things sort themselves out.
Csilla Jul 28th 2011 7:05PM
Assist or Defensive, both make your pet attack what is hitting you (beth's aoe spray), but your pet cant go upstairs alone, so he stands there gawking at the boss. I leave my pet on defensive in that fight, and stick him on the Drones while I aoe the spiderlings as Surv.
I found a bug I had not noticed before with Assist just this morning during Hyjal dailies.
I was attacking 2 mobs, one was very low hp, the other full hp. I switched to the healthier mob before finishing off the weaker mob, leaving my pet/dots to kill it. My pet swapped to the healther target before killing the mob, so I switched back and killed it with one shot. Here's the bug: My pet still switched target to the dead mob, ran to it, and attacked the corpse.
Matt Jul 28th 2011 4:04PM
The funny thing is: I've NEVER used anything other than Passive. Even the old defensive stance was terrible, in my opinion. There were times when I'd wanted my pet to simply stand by as I fought. This happened to me primarily during soloing, but situations like this crop up during raiding too - pulling Staghelm in Firelands is an example I can think of. Likewise, there were many other similar little situations where defensive just wasn't good for a raiding situation.
Truth be told, I'm not sure any stance can offer the flexibility and level of control over your pet as Passive stance with macros for Pet attack, follow and move. If you want my opinion, any good hunter has their pet on Passive 100% of the time and knows how to properly micro manage it.
VioletArrows Jul 28th 2011 5:50PM
That's only a good solution when the macros work. I'm trying my best to micro-manage, but when the targeting bugs thwart that, where do you go from there?
Noyou Jul 28th 2011 6:18PM
I had a simple and awesome macro pre-shattering. And I don't use many macros. It allowed me to cast Hunter's mark, fire a shot (not spell just regular shot) and have my pet attack. Haven't got this to work since cata but my hunter is not my main.
Skarn Jul 28th 2011 6:18PM
GOOD pet stances have options. If pet stances were well-designed, there would be a proper time to use Passive, Defensive and...whatever else we have. I liked the recently-departed Defensive. Most of the time it did exactly what I wanted. My pet attacked when I attacked, it attacked things that attacked me, when it's current target died it would pick a new one and best of all, it would STAY on it's target until I told it otherwise. It was my favorite stance!
Sometimes I'd want the pet to NOT attack unless I specifically told it. Nef was one situation, Maloriak too. In those situations I would use Passive. It was a good option sometimes. So I disagree. A good hunter knows how to use his tools...if those are any good. Defensive was such a tool. It was very useful. Now...not so much. I can deal, I did for years, but it's annoying.
MusedMoose Jul 28th 2011 7:40PM
@ Noyou -
I use the following macro on both my hunters, and it works like a charm:
/cast Hunter's Mark
/petattack
I simply target my, erm, target, hit the macro, and it's marked and my faithful bundle of teeth and claws is on its merry way to wreak havoc. Granted, I haven't played my hunters a whole lot since the change, so it's entirely possible that I just haven't done enough to fully realize the impact of the stance changes. But I wanted to share what works for me.
Squid Jul 28th 2011 11:26PM
I keep my pet on Passive 90% of the time, and I also have a /cast Hunter's Mark /petattack macro. I just hit it and my pet switches right over without any problem, dashing and everything if that is available. That's after 4.2, and it still works perfectly.
Shadda Jul 28th 2011 4:07PM
On the other side of the spectrum, I did Atramedes the other night and our hunter pets actually charged in as soon as the boss became active. I was in assistance stance (can't speak for the other hunters in the raid. I've never seen this happen before, but it could be quite troubling if 5 pets attack before the tank has time to position the boss/establish threat. I may go back to my /pet attack macros. >.>