Scattered Shots: Hunter pet changes -- QQ or HTFU?
Today's header video is a sneak peek at the hunter class in patch 7.3, after the implementation of dual wielding and after minimum range is finally removed from the game. It also looks like we get a melee disarm, which I agree would be nice. Pillar humping is clearly still a vital arena strategy, however. This look at the awesomeness to come should help soften the pain of the unpleasant subject of today's column.
The hunter pet stance changes blow.
There's just no sugarcoating it; the changes to pet stances simply make our lives worse than they were before. If you want to hand me a petition to repeal the changes, I will happily sign it. However, it seems likely the changes are something that we're just going to have to put up with, like ads to buy gold online, fake sparkle pony phishing emails, and the continued existence of elves. So, too, must we apparently suck it up and deal with increasingly unruly pets that need a stronger guiding hand.
Join me after the cut as we discuss the changes in more depth and ask the question of what is to be done about it. Do we hunters try to wail up a paladin-like storm of QQ in hopes of effecting a change, or is it something deliberate and we just have to HTFU?
I have to say, I spent a lot of time messing around with the stance changes and trying to figure out what the intent of them was. Normally, even if I strongly disagree with a Blizzard decision -- like minimum range -- I at least understand it. But the pet stance changes have me a bit baffled still. For a while, I was holding off writing about this certain that some kind of hotfix or at least explanation would be forthcoming, but that isn't looking like the case.
So let's start with a quick recap of what has changed and why that change is bad for hunters.
Hunter pet stance changes
- Aggressive stance Gone entirely. For PVE, this is mostly a good thing, since aggressive stance was mostly a way for hunters who didn't know any better to wipe their 5-mans. For PVP, many hunters used aggressive stance to try to break rogues and druids out of stealth (though based on my conversations with PVPers who know far more than me, that's not something the top hunters ever used in PVP, anyway). They had macros to break stealth and wanted to control where their pets went. I think aggressive stance was probably fair game.
- Assist stance This is our replacement for aggressive stance. While in assist, your pet will attack things that attack you just like defensive stance, and they will attack things that you attack. The new thing with assist is that your pet will change targets if you do. The downside is that your pet waits a few seconds before changing, which means it waits before engaging, too. In AOE situations, your pet gets confused and spends most of its time running around helplessly. People are still reporting various assist bugs, but so far I'm not seeing anything replicable outside of AOE.
- Defensive stance This is the brutal change. I mean, if assist sucks, then we can ignore it like we did aggressive -- except that when in defensive stance, your pet will now only attack when you get attacked. It will not run out to attack what you're attacking the way it did before.
- Passive stance Unchanged.
Ultimately, the effect of this change is we lose the ability to just ignore our pets most of the time and let them do their thing. On the average boss fight, we used to be able to just DPS, and our pet would run in and DPS with us. It would attack the first thing we attacked and stay at it until it was dead or we told it otherwise. This reduced manual pet control to occasionally forcing the pet to change targets and to managing its health.
Assist stance sounds good, but it really doesn't do the same thing that the old defensive stance did. To begin with, we have to manually send our pet in to attack, or it will just hang out for a few shots before joining. Then I often find that I'm changing targets when I don't want the pet to change targets, but with assist, the pets runs after. And of course, AOEing in assist is just silly.
The solution, of course, is just to do what we did back in vanilla: Keep our pets in passive stance and manually control everything they do. Back in vanilla, the pet AI was horrible (you new guys have no appreciation for how much better it is now), and we had to manually send our pets out and call them back for every attack or risk chaos.
I know assist stance sounds like a minor change, but in practice, playing with it just doesn't work and forces manual pet control as the best option.
It's worth noting that yes, you can macro your pet attack into your shots -- but then your pet always attacks what you're targeting, and that is part of the problem with assist stance. I want my pet to attack what I tell it to, and if I don't say anything, then to attack whatever I'm attacking and not stop until I tell it to switch.
I want the old defensive stance.
Is making it harder the point?
After finally realizing that yes, Blizzard intends pets to work the way they're working now, I thought that perhaps the plan was to make pet management harder. After all, you can make an argument that pet management should be harder.
To some extent, having the pet AI handle itself, especially for SV and MM specs, was tantamount to just adding a couple of thousand DPS to our class without our having to do anything at all. Sure, the melee folks get the same thing with their auto-attack, but we also have an auto-attack in addition to the pet.
The only danger with the pet is that it could die and thus drop our DPS.
Perhaps the point of the change is that we have to pay for those extra thousands of DPS with some additional portion of our attention. I could understand that point of view, though it certainly punishes BM a bit more than the other specs.
But is that the point of the change?
It seems like assist stance was, in concept, a way to make pet management even easier. With assist, if you switch targets, your pet automatically switches too. To me, assist stance sounded like a great thing for new hunters -- the crutch stance while you're still leaning all there is to learn about our complex set of tools. When you aren't worried about optimizing your DPS, assist stance is a great beginner's stance.
Assist basically allows you to ignore pet control entirely, though in practice it happens at the cost of some DPS. But if assist's design goal is to make pet control easier or more intuitive for newbie hunters, that clashes with the idea that the stance chance is supposed to be a deliberate move to make pet management more difficult.
What I'd do
Honestly, my best guess is that the design decision around the pet stance changes was to make things easier and more intuitive for new hunters. I don't think the point was to make us pay more to get the toughest and coolest-looking DOT in the game. Particularly with the push to acquire new players via free-to-play until level 20, this seems targeted at making life easier rather than harder. I suspect the actual implementation just had unintended consequences ... but then, why haven't we seen a fix yet?
If it were up to me, I would actually keep assist stance. I'd keep it working just like it does now (and keep pursuing those bug reports to see if we can track down what's really happening there).
I would change defensive stance back to what it was before. Sure, you could argue that it's more thematic that the pet just defends you when in defensive stance, but mechanically, that's doing the exact same thing that assist stance does, only without the attack. Right now, I don't see any practical situations in which you'd want your pet in defensive stance but not in assist.
If thematic concerns are important, you could change the name of defensive stance to attack stance. When in that stance, your pet attacks the first thing you attack and keeps attacking until it's dead or you call it off. Heck, if you really wanted, you could even remove the defending aspect from the stance -- though I wouldn't.
QQ or HTFU?
So we're left with the two possible theories on why the pet stances changed the way they did. Either forcing manual pet control was an accidental casualty, or it was a deliberate way of making us have to pay more attention to get our pet auto DPS.
This makes the solution to either QQ or HTFU. Either we can complain and scream and reason with Blizzard and beg for a return to the old defensive stance functionality, or we can suck it up and start manually controlling our pet's every move the way we did back in my day.
Despite the negative connotations, I don't mean to imply that QQing is a bad thing. I just wrote an entire column complaining about this, and you'd better believe that part of it is in hopes of attracting attention to the issue. But I know a lot of people have been complaining very loudly for a while now with no change in sight.
Personally, what I'd really like is a blue post telling us what the design goal was behind the change, so we know one way or another.
Okay, what I'd really like is a hotfix changing it back; but like minimum range, I can be content with manning up if I was told that the whole point was to make me man up.
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots
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Reader Comments (Page 5 of 5)
Zabrah Jul 29th 2011 10:12AM
I think that Warlocks and Unholy DKs need to unite with our Hunter brethren and drown Blizzard in a deluge of Forum posts of "WTF?"
Previously, in a dungeon or raid setting I kept my kept my pet on Passive and manually controlled it. Usually not a problem. In BGs, I'd put it on Defensive, and only occasionally gave it manual orders.
Today, I still operate the same in dungeons or raids, but the unpredictable bugs keep you on your toys. You never know WHAT your crazy pet/minion/undead thrall will do next. BGs have become MUCH more of a hassle. Many times, my succubus runs willy nilly all over the BG, slapping herself and spasmodically casting CC. Not that it isn't hilarious the first time or two, after a while it gets old.
To me, the real bugs show when soloing. If I ask the pet to attack, and instead it plays with itself, runs away, or attacks other random mobs, there's a problem.
Those of you who said "Oh, I don't know what the problem is, I just do what I've always done"; that's all well and good if the pet actually responds to your commands. The point though is that as the game moves forward, things shouldn't become more complicated. They should become more streamlined.
I never had a issue with pet-management before. Now I do. It's broken, it's slow, and the pets have a mind of their own at times.
sckeener Jul 29th 2011 11:10AM
Just curious if anyone has done these two tests on the training dummies with their pet on assist:
1) With nothing targeted AoE one end of the training dummies and see what the pet does
and then try
2) target one training dummy on the end and then AoE the other end of training dummies.
For #1 I was wondering if the pet would do anything at all. I suspect it would get confused and either do nothing or randomly attack targets in the AoE.
For #2 I was wondering if the pet will continue to attack the targeted dummy and ignore the AoE.
NecroSen Jul 29th 2011 11:30AM
Honestly, I barely noticed there was a change at all, at least for a while. I've had a Hunter's Mark/Pet Attack macro since I started in Wrath, and always had my pet in Defensive. The only time I had to (or still have to) change anything is when I want the pet to STOP EVERYTHING, in which case I hit Passive.
(Of course, during Wrath that macro also switched my Tracking to whatever the targeted mob's type was, so I kinda had to get used to using it if I wanted to keep my DPS on top.)
The changes are pretty stupid, I'll admit, but for anyone looking to completely ignore what Blizzard's trying to screw up for us, I suggest making just such a macro and keeping the pet in Defensive. Boycott Assist Stance and control your pet the easy way!
/cast Hunter's Mark
/petattack
Neothanos Jul 29th 2011 12:05PM
I dont have a problem with the assist Stance but I also think that defensive should go back to the way it was.
Dreadbeard Jul 29th 2011 2:02PM
Screw all of this...I'd just be freakin' happy if they'd fix the damn low health spawn crap on pets. I can relearn to manage the stances, but not if the friggin' pet is dead every time I get jumped in combat.
whitewolf9024 Jul 29th 2011 2:08PM
What I think the WoW devs were going for was an AI similar to Guild Wars. Assist acts almost exactly like Defensive in GW, except that in GW they'll attack immediately if they're idle. Further, in GW you still have Aggressive, which serves both the "attack what I tell you to" and the traditional "aggressive stance" functions, plus a 4th focus target button so you can focus and keep it in "assist". All the WoW devs need to do to fix everything you mentioned in this article is get rid of defensive, give back aggressive, and fix the AoE and delay issues with assist.
whitewolf9024 Jul 29th 2011 2:10PM
WTB edit button...
"Assist in WoW acts almost exactly like Guild Wars' "Defensive Stance"..."
Pinochet Jul 29th 2011 2:39PM
#showtooltip
/cast (shot name)
/petattack [@pettarget,exists][@target]
Won't switch your pet's target until it is dead, will automatically send your pet at your target anytime your pet is attacking nothing (i.e. is sprinting back to you halfway through a pull). Stick the /petattack line in your cobra/steady, arcane, and aimed/explosive, then wipe hands on pants.
Did this really need its own column?
Michael Jul 29th 2011 3:18PM
I understand where you are coming from MadMac10. It is just that it is hard to create a hunter than fits well with the Farstriders or the Sentinels. Current in-game content does not allow for that. Small additions would of course help that, such as a tabard/reputation with those specific groups. Or heck, if they added glaives as a weapon choice would be wonderful, such as the Sentinels and Blood Elf guards usually carry.
But realistically in WoW (...real in a game?...w/e) there are not much defining features for hunters. Instead of a guardian character that the Night and Blood Elves have, or even the artillery weapon makers the dwarves utilize; we are left to be that nomadic "ranger" type. Basically Aragorn when we first meet him as the Strider in Lord of the Rings.
Cole Jul 29th 2011 5:00PM
Agro useless in PvE ? I remember the old times rp-ing and hunting with my pet. Pet on agro, sniffs in the air, smells the prey and runs to it. I following my pet, mark the prey and kill it. While looting and skinning my pet has found another prey.
You got 2 type of hunter dogs, those who rush to the prey and those who pick up the prey.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_dog) . Now if blizzard could make that the pets would loot the corpses :). Corpes never lay at your feet.
Anyway I have used the macro's a long time and they work fine.
Some examples
/petattack
Attacks a target even if you don't have a target. Kind of aggresive stance
/petattack [@target]
Attacks always my target (kind of assist but faster)
and my best one
/petattack [@target,group] [nogroup]
passive in group, aggresive in no group
Elvgren Jul 30th 2011 2:52PM
I believe the proper term is "buggier than shit!"
The stance changes were not even close to thought out before implementing and then, implemented badly.
We had the vanity pet issue. I had the Atramedes bug and believe I've seen the opposite of it twice on the trash in BWD on the way to Atramedes. The dragon just simply attacks the group, which is far far away, without anyone doing anything ... not even targeting ... said dragon. Pet didn't move. Dragon still went for pet.
This was a stupid change specifically for PvP. While good pvp'ers may not use the pet like that plenty did. And folks cried.
I'm getting very tired of the "C Team" on WoW.
dlaiyre Jul 30th 2011 9:14PM
A Macro can replicate part of the old defensive stance.
/petattack [@pettarget,noexists]
This will send the pet to attack your current target ONLY if the pet has no target.
kelindre Jul 31st 2011 3:40AM
I haven't liked the new pet stances since implemented. And yesterday, i spent most of my time on my hunter and my warlock cursing the whole time. The delay from when you tell you pet to attack to when he actually gets around to it so very frustrating because I want him to agro the mob far enough out in front of me. The Assist command is infuriating while doing the Molten Front dailies. With such large numbers of mobs running around, killing mob #1 then moving to #2, my pet is off doing something else god knows where after #1. Sometimes half way across the area because one of the big rock guys hit me with a rock at some point during the encounter with #1. Defense is lame as well. Having to click the Attack command every single fight. The new pet changes are VERY LAME Blizzard!!! If the changes were to make using the pet easier to use for new players, you just F'd over everybody else. Nice going.