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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrama Mamas: Rivals for love
by Robin Torres 
Jul 29th 2011 at 1:00PM
Good friends vying for the attentions of the same woman -- it's a tale as old as time and certainly not new to WoW.
We also have an announcement: This is the last Drama Mamas column ...
... on Friday. (That was a total drama queen move, wasn't it?)
Anyway, we're moving to Mondays starting next week.
Dear Drama Mamas,
I'm part of a casual guild with some very pleasant members. This isn't my first guild I've mixed with and I have a feeling that this won't be my last. We are one of the largest guild on the server apparently and have some really sociable members and we like to have chats. There was even a real life meet aeons ago. This guild has helped through some dark times in the last few years with some great help and hope.
So, great people and great times but there's a girl, there's always a girl, lets call her S.H. I don't want to break her heart so i won't try but would give it to her within moments without hesitation. She's also half the world away and has very clearly stated that she doesn't want a relationship derived from the game. I don't blame her. I can see why and want to be able to find something in real life just as much.
So, she's single, cute and plays World of Warcraft, meaning every guy with a heartbeat that plays wants, which has caused a rift between me and a friend (lets call him D.T.). D.T. and I have a friendship that's always been open and honest and we make comments at each other a lot, some snide some not so polite either. We're all officers within the same guild. We all talk to each other fairly openly (perhaps too openly really) and share woes with our lives and give each other hope when all is lost.
Recently D.T. has taken the flirting too far. I have a feeling that S.H. has been trying to avoid D.T. but hasn't openly said. But when intuition tells me something is irritating her, it's usually right. Then recently D.T. and I had a minor argument during a raid which got extremely heated and out of hand very rapidly and rather childish. Then a few days ago, I mention that D.T. got one up'd in guild chat he comes at me and says don't make him look bad and try to stop making snide comments. I'll admit I am not the quickest or smartest guy to walk on this planet, but when a typically casual joke between us gets taken the wrong way because S.H. is online makes me feel like there's something very clear to my eyes which saddens me. I know we both would like a chance with S.H. but at the risk of destroying something greater than ourselves worries me.
I cannot thank you enough for this,
Does Not Stand a Chance in Hell
Drama Mama Robin: Chance, I've got two harsh things to say to you:- You don't really know when S.H. is getting irritated unless she tells you. Your intuition being "usually right" is not always right, by your own admission. It really seems like you are projecting your irritation on her, regardless of her real feelings. Also, saying that you know by intuition when she is irritated at someone's flirting with her is a little creepy.
- A person on the internet (and in the physical world) will often make a blanket statement like "I don't want a relationship derived from X" because she is specifically not interested in a relationship with you and doesn't want to hurt your feelings by making it more personal.
So you really need to think about your friendship with D.T. If you were to succeed with S.H., if he were to succeed with S.H., if Lolegolas were to succeed with S.H. -- would these outcomes affect your friendship differently? Is your relationship now irrevocably based on a not-quite-so-friendly rivalry for S.H.'s affections? If you don't think your friendship can survive either of you having success with S.H., you may want to morph your relationship from close-ish friends to cool acquaintances now. FYI: Banding together to hate Lolegolas, should he become S.H.'s S.O., is a recipe for guild drama, among other bad things. I don't recommend that as a basis for a friendship, either.
While you're thinking, there is one thing you can do to make things more comfy now:
Keep all possibly incendiary comments out of public chat. That means no more chiding, arguing (no matter how minor), joking at someone's expense, etc. If you have something funny to say to D.T., do it in tells. Regardless of whether S.H. remains single or not, your friendship is not going to survive sniping at each other publicly -- and I am certain it's bringing the rest of the guild down, too.
Drama Mama Lisa: All good advice, all good ... What I'm wondering, No Chance, is how you think you would handle a relationship with S.H.Let's look over the facts: She's made it clear that she's not interested in a long-distance relationship (whether that's with you or in general), and you state right off the bat that you "don't want to break her heart" so you "won't try." You also say that you can understand her feelings and are also looking for a relationship based outside the game world, yourself. Fair enough. Two nice people too far apart; wrong situation, wrong time ...
... So remind me again, why are you still sniffing around?
Thing is, No Chance, seeing ol' D.T. making his own moves doesn't change your situation in the slightest. You're out, so back off. You've got no dog in this hunt.
It sounds like the thing you're actually most concerned with is your friendship with D.T. Bingo! You've got the idea, No Chance, but let me spell it out for you in black and white: Quit harshing your friend's mellow. Let the dude get his shot at something that's not right for you.
Like Robin, I was equally irritated by your remarks about S.H.'s level of irritation. This is a girl who has already clearly, capably communicated her feelings about relationships with you. I sincerely doubt she needs assistance from you doing the same with anyone else. No princesses in need of saving here that I can see ... In fact, as far as I can tell, there's nothing at all to see here ... So move along, No Chance, move along!
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at robin@wowinsider.com.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
Darren Jul 29th 2011 2:47PM
60/40 is still relative scarcity.
AudreyR Jul 29th 2011 3:01PM
Nearly half is not any kind of scarcity.
eakin3 Jul 29th 2011 3:44PM
In China due to the unintended consequences of the one child policy, there was a period where 130 guys were born for every 100 girls, roughly. That's about 56/44. Presently, that translates to about 20-30 million young adult men who can't find girlfriends/wives.
Trust me, relative scarcity IS a big deal
AudreyR Jul 29th 2011 4:10PM
How did I know the population thing would come up?
Yes when dealing in situations where pairing is expected, then it is a big difference.
But in the situation of meeting a female player, it's not scarce at all.
Everyday, you've either run a heroic, raid, bg, traded with, chatted with, bought or sold something off the auction house to or from one.
The chances of not interacting with a female in any way, shape or form during the average session are about the same as not interacting with any males in the same amount of time.
Eirik Jul 29th 2011 2:58PM
I would ask "does that mean we get a new column in 3 days or in 10 days", but I will find out in three days which it is, won't I? :)
lisapoisso Jul 29th 2011 3:57PM
You will, indeed! :D
ZephyrSP Jul 29th 2011 3:24PM
Mammas, you win my entire weekend allotment of internets for leading with the RHCP / Bevis and Butthead vid. Also, dirty trick on the jump ;)
Tough, but not unnecessary, words for my man Chance - I'm one of the many I'm sure who identify heavily with him (don't have a similar experience IN wow myself, but most assuredly have in rl). Easy for guys like us to forget it's not our place to do a bit of nosing/butting in (including being The Defender of Fair Lady's Honour)...especially with ladies we're interested in.
All you can do is be a good friend and a good guildmate, right?
AudreyR Jul 29th 2011 3:31PM
Fantastic advice to the letter writer, but maybe a bit for the object of his affections is in order.
Next time, make your intentions clear. Just come right out and state that you're just not interested in them. You don't have to have an excuse. It's not your fault. It's not their fault.
Trying to spare feelings now can lead to much bigger drama in the long run.
Lirriel Jul 29th 2011 3:36PM
@strangerparadise - I get the same thing, and I expect many other female WoW players do too. Which begs the question: at what point do you say "I'm a girl, so pls stop with the 'dude' and 'bro' and oh, maybe the rape jokes too?" without being looked at as just another female gamer looking for attention?
Snuzzle Jul 29th 2011 3:56PM
Well, you can be male too and not okay with rape jokes. But if it bothers you to be called "dude" or "bro" then yeah speak up on it. If this is truly a guild you will mesh with, then they'll be respectful of it and won't make a big deal that "OMG GIRL ON THE INTERNET!"
If it's a PUG group then why do you care? They don't need to know what's between your legs. Report the rape jokes. But who cares if they call you dude, bro, man, etc?
I am female, and I call others dude on a regular basis. It grates on me when someone in a PUG pipes up "I'm not a guy, so don't call me dude!" What should I call you then? Chica? Dudette? Girlfriend? Or should I always only use your character's name and never refer to you with casual nouns? Seriously, it's just a colloquialism, it doesn't mean anything about your gender.
zubbiefish Jul 29th 2011 4:11PM
I'm a man and I don't like Dude, Bro, or rape jokes. Especially rape jokes.
strangerparadise Jul 29th 2011 4:35PM
lirriel, i'm inclined to agree with snuzzle.. i don't let the "dudes" or "bros" get to me, just let it roll of your back. i merely brought it up before as a chuckle, which is usually how i'll deal with it. i'll whisper another guildie who knows i'm a chick and say something like, "heheheehe, dude thinks i'm a BRO!" and that's about all the thought i give it.
there's nothing wrong with being bothered by rape jokes or any other kind of inappropriate language. i'm going to "me too" with snuzzle's take again and say that if people in your guild are saying things like this then either ask them to stop or find a new group to run with. you shouldn't have to listen to it, and if they're your friends they'll respect that. if they think you're trying to get attention you don't need 'em in the first place.
Kylenne Jul 29th 2011 7:33PM
The problem is that people with privilege don't ever like being called out on their privilege, and will resort to all kinds of bullshit Derailing for Dummies tactics to shut you up. No matter how "nicely" you say it, you'll get tone arguments. No matter how much you hem and haw and try not to take up space (just like women are socialized to do, because we're not supposed to make a fuss!). Even if you don't call yourself a feminist, there will always be some asshole that paints you as a member of the feminazi cooter patrol for wanting to be treated like a human being and they'll behave accordingly.
It's a hard pill to swallow, but it's the truth, and it doesn't matter if it's WoW or anywhere else that's dominated by douchebros on the internet. Once you understand that, it's almost kind of freeing. I have no issue whatsoever calling bros out on their shit, no matter what kind of -ism they're spouting and if it hurts their poor fee-fees to have an uppity woman ask for basic respect, then too bad for them. Aren't they always telling us to "lighten up, lol"? Heh. The way I figure, anyone who'd object to that isn't someone whose opinion of me I terribly care about.
(And the fact that you had to frame your question that way speaks volumes about how shitty gamer culture is with regards to entrenched misogyny. I'm 30 years old and have been involved in it since I was old enough to hold a controller, and I've been there done that.)
Khasper Jul 29th 2011 3:42PM
I *unfortunately* happened to fall in love with someone on WoW. She lived across the US from me, so there was nothing we could really do besides play together/text/skype. Long-distance relationships will turn into problems unless you actually meet in person eventually. You end up falling in love with the "idea" of the person, filling in the blanks of who they are with your own chosen parts. And, three months after we ended the relationship, I'm finally managing to get over her. We went seven months together lol, and it had more downs than ups. She's found someone else, also on the game, but meh. I've deleted her from real id, ignored her toons, I'm ready to move on.
My advice would be, if you're gonna get into something with a girl on WoW, keep it confined to WoW, keep it simple, do some flirting and whatnot...don't make it more than what it is. These long-distance things mess with your emotions, mess with your head. You end up daydreaming all the time about her, and you start losing focus on the real world (or maybe that was just me taking it too far :/ idk). Chances are that you will never see her, so best to leave out the complications. Because when you meet a wonderful girl IRL, you don't want something like this to get in the way
Bynde Jul 29th 2011 3:42PM
I personally know more females playing WoW than men.
But, I see more boys playing WoW than men.
At least it sounds that way from reading trade chat.
jfofla Jul 29th 2011 3:49PM
I have been to every Blizzcon.
First Blizzcon: OMG, was that a female?
Second Blizzcon: Dramatic increase in female presence. Maybe 15%
Third Blizzcon: Over 25% Female
Now: Blizzcon is close to 50-50
eakin3 Jul 29th 2011 3:52PM
After being trolled like that with the header and the jump. I regret to inform you both that I will no longer be reading your column
.... on Fridays
kevin.luang Jul 29th 2011 4:05PM
I love how often people on drama mama's seem to interpret these things wrong (don't get me wrong not trying to offend anyone). IMO this isn't as much a plead for help winning S.H. for himself as it is one for saving his friendship. The way I see it is that he cares about both S.H. and D.T. with all his heart and he is trying to protect them from each other, trying to keep her from being annoyed (although you can't say for sure, he has stated he's known her for years and after such a time you get to interpret someone's feelings just by the way they type and respond) and keep his friend from running head first into the brick wall that is 'No!'. Apparently his friend doesn't get his intentions which result in arguments over trivial matters.
Other than that I evidently agree with the given advice. If he's rude you should address that, nobody likes rude people, but stop messing in their matters. She's made up her mind and so has he. Support a friend who seems sincere in liking her, rather she's with a friend who you know you can trust to treat her well than with some random jackass.
On the topic of your argument. Invite him over and have a talk, he seems like a good guy who'll understand if you tell him how you feel about the situation. Work it out and continue to enjoy WoW together, it'd be sad to lose a close friend over a girl who's half a world away, no matter how heavenly she is.
P.s. I, for one, do believe that you can judge a persons mood via text just as well. If you know someone as long as he says he has over the internet you get to read their mood by the way they type and responses just fine. (Although never as accurate as IRL, I'll give you that much ;) )
kevin.luang Jul 29th 2011 4:19PM
Disregard the ps, i already put it in my post :S EDIT button plox.
vocenoctum Jul 30th 2011 1:41PM
I had a situation at work once, me (guy), other guy, and foreign girl on loan for a few months to the US. (Work program)
She was playful with both of us, I was not attracted to her, he was. So he had to do the whole macho display thing and try to "win" in front of her. I made it clear that his little displays needed to no longer include me or there'd be real consequences. (Not violent threats or anything, but it's way inappropriate for a business.)
The drama-mama's are correct, but I think they focused on the idea that he is jealous of the guy and doesn't want him with the girl. They glossed over that they're officers in a guild and that there is ensuing drama spilling into the raids and guild chats.