Scattered Shots: Yes, beast mastery can raid

Beast mastery hunters suffered on the DPS charts for the majority of Wrath of the Lich King. By just about any measure, hunters were giving up a lot of DPS by playing the BM spec -- around 20% behind the leading hunter spec at best, one of the worst three specs in the game in Wrath. That's a heck of a lot of DPS loss for a raid leader to swallow.
This is not the case any longer. Take heed, raid leaders: BM is a viable hunter raiding spec!
I get a lot of emails from poor BM hunters whose raid leaders tell them that their beloved spec does far too little DPS to raid, without even giving the BM hunter a chance to prove them wrong. A lot of this is leftover knowledge from Wrath, when hunters took a huge DPS hit by speccing BM. I imagine this comes from raid leaders' sporting bell-bottoms and giant, poofy '80s hair, because these people are woefully out of date.
Join me after the cut as we take a look at the numbers and see where BM's DPS stands and why we can't trust the top 100 parses in this case. (Hint: It's math that tells us not to trust it.)
Female Dwarf's numbers
First let's take a look at how the hunter specs are performing in the Female Dwarf theoretical model. While no model is a perfectly accurate reflection of any given fight (boss mechanics, randomness, and player skill screw that up), they do give us an excellent qualitative guide to the relative performance of the hunter specs.
For this quick test, I'm going to assume something pretty close to a best-in-slot Firelands normal-mode gear set, including Arathar, the Eye of Flame as our ranged weapon. Here is the theoretical damage output of each spec (using an Aimed Shot hardcast rotation for MM):
- Beast Mastery 30,208
- Marksmanship 33,373
- Survival 30,202
But now compare BM and SV: Their theoretical single-target DPS is nearly identical. Let me say that again: BM and SV in the same Firelands gear do about the same damage. If you've got a problem with BM, you'd better have a problem with SV, too.
The numbers in practice
In practice, BM continues to lag behind on the top raiding parses, but is that because BM's DPS is bad or because raid leaders of leading guilds won't let their hunters raid as BM? And how far behind is BM? This is where we look at the data that argues against BM.
Here are some numbers from Raidbots (always looking at median DPS):
For all parses from 10-man normal:
- BM is 7.6% behind MM.
- BM is 6.4% behind SV.
- BM has 2,452 samples in the dataset, compared to 21,362 for SV and 46,655 for MM.
- BM is 8.6% behind MM.
- BM is 2% ahead of SV.
- BM has 1,287 samples, compared to 11,257 for SV and 45,540 for MM.
But here's the very important thing about these numbers: They are not statistically relevant. The problem with this is that the BM representation in raids is so incredibly low (less than 1%) that the data being pulled from World of Logs can't be trusted. It's kind of like flipping a coin twice and having it come up heads both times, so you declare that your testing shows that coins always come up heads. You haven't done enough testing to verify that claim, and BM hasn't done enough raiding WoW-wide in for the logs to be a viable representation of their ability.
This is, in fact, the reason that Raidbots automatically hides BM data and flags it with an exclamation point, warning that "the values may not be statistically reliable."
BM needs to be buffed
I've been singing this song since a few months into Wrath -- for years, in other words -- but BM needs a DPS buff. Gone are the days of the one-button BM rotation macro. BM now has an engaging rotation involving a goodly amount of cooldown management. It may not be to your liking, but at least it's not the mage rotation. There's no excuse for holding their DPS back.
Looking at theoretical numbers makes it clear that BM's DPS output is a bit on the low end, and they need some love to bring them back up to par. Part of this is due to the recent pet focus bug fix in patch 4.2; it used to be that hunter pets had their focus restored to full every time the hunter's stats changed, causing pets in raids to be nearly always above 50% focus, which in turn let them do a lot more damage with Wild Hunt. When the bug got fixed, all hunters saw a DPS loss, and BM more than the rest.
Note that Female Dwarf never modeled the bug, so the numbers both before and after the fix reflect the current fixed pet focus.
To me, what is far more telling than DPS models and my own testing showing BM lagging a bit behind is that it has less than a 1% representation in raids. That above all should shout that BM needs a buff.
Can BM raid?
Yes, BM is a perfectly viable and competitive raiding spec. It needs a buff, but it's just not that far behind. If you're okay with SV, you should be okay with BM.
There isn't any statistically viable log data, but the data from testing and from Female Dwarf supports the theory that BM's single-target DPS is about on par with survival's and a bit worse than MM's, on average. Both BM and SV are a chunk worse than MM in the MM dream scenario. BM has excellent burst AOE but overall has worse AOE than SV. On the other hand, BM has better burst DPS for burn phases, something SV sorely lacks.
While we still have MM maintaining its DPS lead (note: not growing it, just maintaining, despite the higher ilevel), both BM and SV are viable and competitive raiding specs. If you're shooting for world-first kills, you probably mostly want MM hunters for most fights. But if you're okay with SV, then you should be okay with BM too.
So quit telling BM hunters that they can't raid. Tell your raid leaders that it's Cataclysm now, not Wrath anymore. BM can both raid and top the charts.
It's also worth noting in closing that I have no dog in this fight. I will happily play whatever spec brings me the highest DPS, and right now, that is not BM. I'm not interested in emotions or preferences, just the numbers, and the numbers say that BM just isn't that far behind. A couple of years ago, I wrote a column here about how horrible BM's DPS was, that raiding as BM was akin to raiding without pants or gems. (It really was that bad.) This is no longer the case; now the DPS loss of raiding as BM is more akin to sneezing violently and borking your rotation for a few seconds.
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Basil Berntsen Aug 4th 2011 2:12PM
So we need some high caliber hunters in raid groups capable of generating top 100 parses to convince their GMs to let them go BM. Maybe on farm content at first to prove it... that's the only way to get out of this chicken and egg loop where people get told to respec because none of the high end raids use BM.
Kheldul Aug 4th 2011 4:36PM
-10% is a pretty tough pill to swallow isn't it? I don't think there will be too many high level parses for it.
I only flip to SV on fights where I'm AoE'ng like mad. Beth'tilac comes to mind. In those cases SV isn't -10% like BM. SV is in the odd case where it's 30-40k dps for each wave of spiderlings. It is true that some single-target high-movement fights may favor BM. But I find that more rare than fights asking for potent AoE.
The last thing going against BM is that kill command is more difficult to manage to get off than other talent tree's defining shots.
Joe Aug 4th 2011 4:42PM
Actually, to wash the Wrath-era stigma that BM still carries in non-hunter minds, maybe Blizzard could deliberately over-buff BM for just one patch cycle.
If BM were clearly ahead of MM and SV for just one raid tier, people would accept it again. Then, at the next major patch, Blizzard could say "oops, looks like BM is too high" and give it a small nerf to bring the 3 specs back together.
But, short of that, where BM is just "okay" but not "top", I'm not sure we'll ever get most raid leaders to accept it again.
(And yes, I know that raid leaders who have problems with BM are dumb, but we have to deal with the world as it is. I'm just suggesting something Blizzard could do to erase the stigma.)
Basil Berntsen Aug 4th 2011 5:31PM
BM has more raid buffs/debuffs though, and some fights don't allow marks to stand still the whole time, reducing their lead considerably.
Artificial Aug 4th 2011 5:31PM
Well, the fact that there's even a "top 100" category, and that people look at it, proves how bad people are at math.
Suppose Spec 1 has 5000 logs, and Spec 2 has 500 logs. Take the average of the top 100 of Spec 1, and you're taking the average of the top 2% players, take the average of the top 100 of Spec 2, and you're taking the average of the top 20% of players. What does the result number tell you? It tells you which spec is more popular, which you already knew. It tells you that players in the top 2% of their spec generally do better than players who are only in the top 20% of their spec, which is bloody obvious. It doesn't tell you anything else, and if you think it does, you're really, really, really bad at math and shouldn't be in any position that requires you to make decisions. :p
The fact that the category even exists demonstrates how bad people are at math. It's not a valid indication of anything at all. There's no reason anyone would even want to see those numbers unless they really don't understand math.
Basil Berntsen Aug 4th 2011 6:20PM
"Suppose Spec 1 has 5000 logs, and Spec 2 has 500 logs. Take the average of the top 100 of Spec 1, and you're taking the average of the top 2% players, take the average of the top 100 of Spec 2, and you're taking the average of the top 20% of players"
I think the top 100 logs are actually the top 100 raid parses for a boss. If BM isn't in enough of those top logs, then it has no statistical significance.
VeldrinVelve Aug 5th 2011 6:52AM
Hi,
My guild is 4/7 Heroic and i'm raiding as a BM on most fights (see VeldrinVelve in WOL). We do not have DPS issue but recruitement issue that slow our progression.
I have to say the BM rotation is far more simple than MM (see EJ forums) but it's DPS is still competitive. Spec is interesting because of it's buffs and talent like Intimidation.
The Key of a good BM DPS is the Bestial Wraith management.
The main problem with this spec is pet that have the same disadvantage than melee dps. I'm also very afraid by T12 4pc with our "simple" rotation.
A solution ? like it has been said before BM should have a real signature shot instead of Intimidation.
Ian Aug 4th 2011 2:16PM
I think BM is also held back by the fact that it looks like the most difficult to play correctly. I have a BM spec for kicking around and soloing, but I stuck with Survival for raids because it suits my play style and ability (read: it's easier).
Noyou Aug 4th 2011 3:25PM
It goes back to "bring the player not the class". It is probably harder to find good players that play BM. If you know someone who plays BM and they are a good person and try to do whatever they can to better themselves aren't they worth taking even if they maybe a few % of on their dps vs another player who has better DPS but is kind of a ______? Plus with all the CC involved now and different buffs from pets I would think most 10 mans would want a BM spec in there.
Gendou Aug 4th 2011 2:17PM
That's what I've been trying to tell our hunters, who insist they can't bring BM buff pets to 10-man raids because it will hurt their DPS.
Hopefully they will hear the clarion call of the BM off-spec so as to give us more options.
toddmcb Aug 4th 2011 3:42PM
Gendou, BM pet buffing probably isn't that big of a deal, with scrolls and drums out there. Only a very select few buffs are BM only. The exceptions are the class buffs, not the pet buffs. Each class brings a very specific buff, that if no one else brings, then the hunter could be asked to swap specs just for his class buff.
WoogieNoogie Aug 4th 2011 4:25PM
I'm gonna put in a small correction here. Still stop them from bringing in non-ferocity pets. A tenacity pet can lose a few thousand DPS, which isn't worth it for that one minor buff.
Gendou Aug 4th 2011 5:08PM
Our small, casual raid group is often over-represented in some classes, and under-represented in others, leaving us with an occasional need for certain buffs on certain fights (Bloodlust / Time Warp / Ancient Hysteria on P3 Nefarian, for example). Having one of our hunters have the ability to swap specs and pets for those fights would be fantastic, which is really all that has been asked.
wutsconflag Aug 4th 2011 6:24PM
If the raid DPS increase is greater than the loss of personal DPS for the Hunter, then the Hunter should be bringing the appropriate pet buff which is missing from the raid.
Raid DPS > Personal DPS, after all.
Sara Aug 4th 2011 2:17PM
When I used to play my hunter, I will say that I stayed BM, even through Wrath. I fiddled with hybrids, MM, Surv, and in the end, every time I raided as something that was non-BM, I was miserable, started dreading raids, and spent half my time practice on dummies in Org. Part of this, I'll admit, was my love of spirit beasts, but it was mainly due to the fact I found BM to be fun, I knew a lot about it, and, to be frank, it's what I was comfortable and confidant with. I was able to always pull my weight in raids and never turned away by a raid leader--even when I told them I was BM spec! I'm now leveling a druid and tending to focus more on that, but my 85 hunter (still BM :P ) could probably use some attention as well :)
wow Aug 4th 2011 2:20PM
Speaking as a BM Hunter, we can indeed raid. :) I guess I've been lucky lately, coz I have been in a few raids already. :) I love my BM Hunter. Yeah, my numbers my statistically lower than say, MM, but I pull my own weight. :)
Shinanji
(cutaia) Aug 4th 2011 2:28PM
/slowclap
Skarn Aug 4th 2011 7:05PM
Buh?
Downrated for applauding Frostheim?
Whu?
Hal Aug 4th 2011 2:43PM
So, how would you buff Beast Mastery to make it more attractive?
I mean, besides Stampede. That would be awesome, but what else is there?
Frostheim Aug 4th 2011 2:51PM
Keep in mind that BM is very close to the other specs in DPS potential, so it would not need a huge buff -- just one or two minor ones. I'd start by buffing the BM mastery, which is among the worst of the hunter specs, though mastery remains the least attractive stat for all hunter specs (by a small margin). But a nice BM mastery buff alone could move them a couple percent.
I would then consider some ways of enhancing BM pet focus regeneration to enable them to better make use of two ranks of Wild Hunt -- basically a way to counteract the dps loss from fixing the pet focus nerf for BM.