The Lawbringer: Q&A on Diablo's real-money auction house, page 2

Lobo wanted to know the feasibility of someone making a living off of a real-money auction house.
Hello Mat,
I was listening to the Podcast today and one question kept coming up in my mind about the side effects of having the two Auction Houses in Diablo 3. You were saying that the in game gold that would be sold still has to come from players putting in the work to get that gold. However, as you know, there is a growing group of people who are wildly successful at playing the WoW AH. (Basil, on your staff, included). These people can spend like 30 minutes a day making thousands of gold. Does this open up the opportunity for people to play the in game gold AH in Diablo 3 and make tons of gold and then sell that gold on the Cash AH? Does this new system open the door for a whole new type of online money making?
Keep up the great work!
Lobo - Worgen Druid Korgath
Many people make their living through online games, poker websites (less so in the United States after the great Poker Purge of the early century), and online entrepreneurial efforts. My prediction for Diablo 3's real-money auction house is that like most everything in society, there will be the outlying relatively few people who find a way to work the system for their own benefit and then everyone else who uses it sparingly.
See, the RMT auction house is going to cater to three distinct types of people: the average Diablo player looking for an awesome item sans the luck of the drop, the high-end AH maven who plays the market and finds a niche, and the organized gold seller who has a team of people who farm gold in-game, has a better luck spread to get better items, and so on.
There are three factors that make "becoming rich" off of the Diablo AH something of a rough sell. First, the auction houses are going to be regional, meaning everyone in the North American servers will be competing against each other, European servers will be competing against each other, and so on. The pool for competition is larger than the World of Warcraft local server economies, so supply will potentially be greater (or at least be closer to meeting) demand. Right now, you can oversupply or undersupply a WoW server based on general economic principles and warehousing certain goods. This will be a harder process in Diablo's region-wide auction houses.
Second, we do not yet know the frequency at which items become available. The only items on the Diablo 3 RMT auction house are from players and players alone. Blizzard has no intention of stepping in and putting up items, which means the supply of items on the auction house is completely dependent on the player. If the drop rate of the New Stone of Jordan is incredibly minuscule, there will not be many of them in the world on the auction house, and prices will reflect that. If the drop rate on great items is more lenient than in Diablo 1 or 2, we could see a more active economy with cheaper products. Market forces will adjust prices.
Third, gold sellers will be active on the Diablo auction house. It's a fact. At least now when you purchase gold, Blizzard gets a cut and seedy hackers won't steal your credit card. I count that as plus. The gold sellers who have made virtual currency a multibillion dollar business aren't going anywhere and are resilient to change. Players will be competing with them on the RMT auction houses, potentially bringing prices down further. You can only farm so much gold as one person. Hire a team of people, and your supply grows to a large degree. Prices for gold will reflect what these companies choose to do with their stockpiles.
So can you make a living off something like this? It's possible, but there are going to be many factors in the way, including the rate at which you get product that is good enough to sell. Will you become a millionaire off selling greens? Probably not. Can you try? Sure.

Hasteur asked about taxes.
Do profits made from the D3 RM-AH have to be declared on Income tax forms?
Most likely any money that comes to you via whatever third party Blizzard has set up will be classified as income since, well, that's what it is. You sold something and made a profit from it. It is up to person, not Blizzard, to report income for their annual income tax, as Blizzard is not an employer, just a facilitator of the auctions.
Money in the Battle.net wallet, however, might be a different story. You don't actually get that cash -- Blizzard stashes it away for you in the wallet-like store credit, for use on digital products at the Blizzard store or on more items in Diablo 3's auction house. While the money is still income realized, meaning it has manifested itself in some way, like purchasing a digital copy of StarCraft 2 or a companion pet in WoW. But then the argument can be made that there was no realization of income, since you just added virtual licenses to a virtual account. The case law in income tax realization line-drawing are vast. Really vast. It's a tough question.
Excitement
Jesse wanted to know why I get so excited about virtual currency.
Hey Mat,
You like to talk about the ways games make players purchase virtual currency and love talking about it. Where did the enthusiasm come from? It seems like a crappy topic for video gamers since, at the end of the day, it's costing us more money.
Jesse
I love virtual currency because I love seeing business models change and gameplay change as a result of it. Free-to-play models have become a staple in the industry when only years ago we would have lit these companies' buildings on fire if they even dared dream of charging us for certain content. Games as a service is a concept I like because there is player investment in their profile, account, and gameplay that is above and beyond what is usually in a boxed copy of a game that you play once and let sit.
Maybe it's just my personality, but I like evolution and growing and appreciate the innovations that have come from this style of game model. The free-to-play and virtual currency platforms are exciting to me because it's new, and I am of an age and generation that I've watched this thing happen and at the same time have the understanding of the thing. It's like watching the Berlin Wall fall when you were 8 years old versus watching it fall when you were 28 years old -- one doesn't understand the event but understands that it is important, and the other has the full scope of the event. Virtual currency, real-money transactions, and free-to-play model evolution are my moments that I "get" in video game history.
If you have any more questions about this sort of thing, send me an email to mat@wowinsider.com and I will try to answer the best that I can. Also, Twitter is a great way to ask me questions, since I am practically glued to it.
See you guys next week.






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Vitos Aug 5th 2011 2:16PM
To be honest, I'm still not sure why you think the system would be so great for WoW.
I mean, beyond gold selling, I don't think that there is much of a market for real money trading in game. While there is a strong trade going on the AH, would you shell out money for a rare gem? While it is possible that somepeople would spend money on peacebloom to level their alchemy faster, I believe it would be a very small portion of the population.
Additionally, since WoW is multiplayer in a sense that Diablo is not- you're not constantly interacting and competing with other players- this would be selling power. Something that Blizzard has said they're not going to do and something that most players say that they don't want in their game.
LandMineHare Aug 5th 2011 2:46PM
"I don't have time to farm gold in WoW because I'm spending my RealTime⢠farming RealMoniesā¢."
Now Mr. I-Work-Too-Much can spend his hard-earned REAL bucks on his fake not-earned welfare epics from the AH.
And the world rejoiced.
Sqtsquish Aug 5th 2011 2:48PM
In a situation like Diablo 3 where it would be worse than in WoW due to everything being BOE, but think about it this way- how would you know that raider you are with didn't just buy half his gear with his parent's paycheck, or even worse if it went just like Diablo, how do you know that your new raider isn't just some person that just bought himself a tier 12 hunter with his daddy's credit card?
I mean gear doesn't make the player for sure (despite, sole valid arguments saying otherwise, gear only enhances a player's potential), but since there is very little and mostly unreliable means of getting a hold of certain player's history you sort of have to go by their gear or do trial runs with them.
Getting gear by your own means, not just through buying it , gold or real cash, infers that you had to actually put effort, time, and cooperation with others in long enough for that selfsame gear to drop. Sorta part of the reason that some people out there do not like the idea of gear resets. If back raiding ulduar a hardcore raider saw my rogue with it's 213 dagger he would know that I had to have downed KT 25 man numerous times. With the game allowing you to simply buy boes off the auction house or with points for grinding heroics, you never actually see items that equate any personal achievement, and the worst part is you essentially skip content and the lessons it was supposed to teach.
In my opinion, it was a mistake to ever put tier gear on vendors, tier gear belongs on bosses, because in order to "get that special extra bonus" you need to be able to at least down a few of "last week's" bosses in order to have a chance against this next week's bosses.
Vitos Aug 5th 2011 2:53PM
Another issue with the RMT if it came to wow is that there is an end to the market. What I mean by that is if you buy a BoE from the AH for $5, you get it, you use it, you get an upgrade and you delete the old item.
With Diablo, you buy the item for $5, you get it, you use it, you get an upgrade, you send it to another toon who can use it, you get another upgrade, you put it back on the AH for $4 (because more people have progressed and items of its quality are more common). So instead of losing $5, you lose $1 and you get probably more than twice as much time with it.
Without that, pretty much everything in WoW would be a 1-time transaction, whereas in Diablo, a particularly good item could be shuffled around 10+ times before it gets vendored or scrapped.
loop_not_defined Aug 5th 2011 4:08PM
A cash AH in WoW doesn't necessarily have to match Diablo III's. It doesn't have to allow character trading, for example - although that would help diminish the powerleveling racket and accompanying scams/hacks. It also probably wouldn't allow trading of BoPs...which should be obvious.
Selling crafting mats probably wouldn't be financially feasible in most cases. Players likely wouldn't spend more than a few cents on a stack of something relatively common, meaning Blizzard's cut could make it not worthwhile (assuming there's a minimum posting fee).
If anything, people would use a $AH in WoW to sell super-rare stuff like the Vial of the Sands, epic BoEs, and tradeable TCG loot.
Aticus Aug 5th 2011 6:51PM
I have to agree with loop in that BOE epics and other high end gear is where people would be buying.
Take myself as an example: I have been trying for farm BOT for weeks now trying to find the ranking shoulders. Averaging 4 hours a week for the last 5 weeks, I've spent 20 hours in there for 1 piece of gear. Now, I go to my real job and make $4.20 every 10 minutes. I will damn well pay $8 for those BOE shoulders and complete the look of T10 on my light blue haired DK.
20 min for RealWork vs 20 hours + in GameTime. I'll take my 20 minutes and enjoy the ascetics of my character looking amazing.
Aticus Aug 5th 2011 6:54PM
*tanking
**T11
Gotta love Android's auto speller lol.
Windswept Aug 5th 2011 2:18PM
Let me get this straight. Right now, I am undergoing chemotherapy and unable to work. I sit around and play videogames all day long. With this new auction house, will I be able to play Diable and 'cash out' allowing me to earn money which I can spend on real world items, like say going on a date with my GF?
Portals Aug 5th 2011 2:34PM
yes
lsprof4 Aug 5th 2011 2:38PM
I think that's exactly what he's saying... God bless you with the chemo
Scomparsa Aug 5th 2011 2:40PM
In theory. Like Mat says, it all depends on the time commitment (seems like you have that part down) you're willing to invest, and your luck in terms of item drops. I'm looking forward to this system myself.
Also, I hope you are doing well, stay strong man. Stay strong.
Windswept Aug 5th 2011 3:39PM
Thanks for the answers and support. I can't wait!!!!
omedon666 Aug 5th 2011 2:22PM
Ok, I get that you're excited about the prospects of this coming to WoW, and I follow your logic, but...
What about the fact that WoW is BUILT AROUND a competitive mindset and competitive motivation... doesn't that... you know... lean away from "he who spends, wins" in a dollar (as opposed to gold) context?
omedon666 Aug 5th 2011 2:25PM
For the record, if bringing this into WoW means crushing the competitive mindset (on a PVE front, anyway), I'm all for it. I'm up for anything that will "devalue" the srs bsns player's view of their WoW time in a "you're wasting it" vein... but I don't see that ever happening.
Mathew McCurley Aug 5th 2011 2:30PM
I firmly believe the nature of MMOs have changed from a competitive game to a personal progression + other people thing. I don't think the competitive nature of guilds and raiding and other MMO staples, if they are even around in 5-10 years, would be adversely affected.
omedon666 Aug 5th 2011 2:33PM
Matthew, I thought I was alone on this love boat of personal MMO enjoyment. I am so with you on that, and have been preaching it for a long time. I am happy to see more folks "waking up" to this ethic!
You are my kind of people!
Shade Aug 5th 2011 2:36PM
It won't crush the competitive mindset. It'll just make it worse. Competitive guild applications will just add a field for "Are you able to spend as much money as is necessary to buy enchants, mats, and equipment, as needed by the guild?"
The Shannox fiasco with Stars was often commented on by people with the view that "They spent hundreds of dollars to earn that kill. It should be accepted by the community." I wouldn't be surprised to see high-end 25man groups pay thousands of dollars overnight to push world firsts. Whatever-replaces-maelstrom-crystals for fifty bucks a pop? I can see people buying it. BoE drops for hundreds? I can see people buying those, too.
omedon666 Aug 5th 2011 2:47PM
I'm not sure I agree, Shade. Or at least, I don't think that's the only potential outcome.
I play LOTRO, and the first, major difference I noticed, from WoW, is that there was this tangible but unspoken, refreshing understanding that PVE dick swinging was pretty much pointless when your neighbor can simply "buy a bigger dick" for real money. I personally shell out huge for cosmetics, but the fact that you can literally bump your stats up with turbine points doesn't bother me at all. So someone somewhere has it "easier", so what?
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not silly enough to think this mindset is coming to WoW anytime soon, if ever... but how many people will place value on being in that hardcore progression guild with a "spending requirement", when other people are also spending and gaining the same advantage?
If everyone can have "it", is "it" still a trophy?
I personally think "trophies" are outdated in MMOs, in the "I have it and you don't" vein.
Even in an execution based game, stats still offer a learning cushion, a leg up in the "race"... is the "race" still something to care about when people "without skill" can get those purchased advantages?
How long will we care about our neighbors' purchased "bigger dick"?
I can tell you that life on the other side of that debate, where it's been played out to a non-issue, is pretty calm and refreshing.
Sqtsquish Aug 5th 2011 3:02PM
For me the environment that you believe caters only to competitive play seems to do more than you believe. When gear is easy to come by the expectation is that progression for that gear is almost guaranteed. The fact that in WoW that you can get someone geared in current jp gear to power run you through instances, devalues the cooperation and in game skills you were supposed to learn in them. Do you for instance want a tank that learned how to down stonecore bosses through practice, or do you want one that outgeared it at the time, hit a few cds to survive it long enough for the dps to burn the boss down? Sure you cannot do that at the moment quite yet, but I'm sure next patch you can?
When you can outgear content before ever learning mechanics, you can essentially faceroll all the content all the way up to either beating the game with no effort or hitting a brick wall of difficulty because you never actually learned how to play.
omedon666 Aug 5th 2011 3:06PM
Sqtsquish:
So?
No really, how does it hurt anyone for that to be the case? Take out the competitiveness and look at it that way.
I dunno, maybe I'm just so outside the competitive bubble I just can't relate.
I compete every day, the real world is a rat race, I just don't want to "escape" into another, I'd rather "everyone wins" if they so choose.