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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBreakfast Topic: How do you deal with self-entitled puggers?
by Christopher Fugate 
Aug 9th 2011 at 8:00AM
I pull hard and fast, so I don't want to hear about your drinking problems. Just keep up.
No, we're not doing that boss.
If you go in there, I'm not healing you.
Dude, I'm pulling more DPS than the other two put together, and I'm going for the achievement whether you like it or not.
Do any of those sound familiar? It's that one player in the PUG who thinks he's the star of the show and that everyone else is there to bow down to his demands. More often than not, this ends up being a tank, although anyone who thinks the group can't get along without them is prone to this sort of behavior. The tank thinks that DPS won't dare to kick him because of their long queue times (while they get instant queues). The healer refuses to heal anyone that he personally doesn't seem to like. DPSers can fall into this behavior as well, but this doesn't seem to be nearly as commonplace.
The same thing crops up when you down a boss, and suddenly someone just drops group. They didn't get their drop; therefore, they just leave the rest of you hanging. Has this happened to you? If not, consider yourself lucky (and brace for when it does). Or perhaps you've done it to groups you've been in; if so, remember, this is a group game, and those are four other people want their stuff just as much as you want yours. Be considerate. No single member of a PUG is irreplaceable, and the vote kick button is there for a reason.
How do you generally deal with self-entitled puggers?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics, Guest Posts
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 10)
Mamaryno Aug 9th 2011 8:09AM
Healer: "If you pull aggro, I wont heal you, you'll die, wipe us and then we'll kick you".
first boss, Healer pulls aggro, didn't self heal (because they forgot the could) he died, wiped us, we spent 5 min rofloao, and then kicked the healer.
relmatos Aug 9th 2011 8:42AM
Similar thing happened to me. Tank doesnt grab 1 mob, mob goes to healer. I grab the mob to protect the healer.
He then starts bitching that he will not heal me again if I overaggro again. So, I informed him that I would not pull mobs out of him again.
4 times he died that run. Every single time I told him "I could have saved you but you told me not to overaggro".
Hopefully he learned his lesson.
Also, when someone is being particularly rude, I votekick them out of the group right before the last boss.
exogenesis. Aug 9th 2011 8:35AM
I always threaten not to heal DPS if they pull, but that's only when they are being jerks and deliberately pulling. If I stop healing them and they die, hopefully they think twice before doing it. Or they bitch at me and leave, but either way it's a win-win situation. Unless they keep doing it...
Ice Aug 9th 2011 10:59AM
This is kinda offtopic but kinda similiar happened to me other week about healer.
I queue as tank and got group to last boss of ZG.
I pull but quickly notice that no one is doing anything, chains dont die, berserks dont die, ghosts dont die. I dont know how people manage that but in the end people whined to kick healer.
Since I found out they queued together and cant kick him that reason I gave him change once more.. But looking at his gear he had pvp gear, not enchanted, not gemmed (or +6 stamina? really? "I just pvp" doesnt allow you to do this)
So there I was "ok but next time you invite someone thro trade inspect them. You had so many ways to inspect, ask him, invite him, queue up but you didnt. No need to blame him 100% you are as much wrong as him."
So then I proceeded to kick him - which I never hardly do. I tend to give people change unless they are jerks.
So I put "vote kick" and write "fine".
Then my chat looks like this:
Votekick has passed
Healer has left the group
Dps has left the group
Dps has left the group
Dps has left the group.
So I just kicked whole group and they agreed to that.. I didnt know that was possible =D
BB Crisp Aug 9th 2011 1:59PM
I was with guildies and one lousy dps in ZG. They complained over vent about him, but nobody ever said anything to him in-game and one guildie made a passing comment about kicking him just before the last boss. I thought it was a joke at the time, until the vote was initiated about 45 minutes later. I caught some flak by declining, but it's not like the guy was being a jerk or causing any trouble. I'm not one to punish somebody just because they're bad. I'd be more inclined to give them advice to help them improve. Besides, if you're going to kick somebody for low dps, why not do it early in the run?
After we killed the boss, he thanked us for the run, never knowing that he was on the chopping block. I know I made the right choice.
Roguebert@Ulduar Aug 10th 2011 4:27AM
I rarely do full PUGs. I dislike having nobody to talk to on vent so I take along at least one person I know well. As soon as there is a majority of "us" and a minority of "randoms" it happens that my guildmates aggro on one of the randoms and initiate a vote-kick. I dislike going along with this except in the most extreme cases. I actually enjoy being around people who don't play perfectly. Hunters that pull are a challenge to me as a tank. Trash-talking kids or self-entitled know-it-alls are the salt in my soup. The most fun experience I had was after convincing my guild mates not to kick the mage in greens with the 12 seconds of latency. He would blink around the instance (shadowfang keep), fall off roofs and pull bosses and mobs without ever doing damage. It was great fun to watch him and save his ass. After we downed the final boss he thanked us wholeheartedly for not letting him die too many times and protecting him.
lornetc Aug 9th 2011 8:09AM
the group droppage happened to me 2 times in the same ZA run this morning before the realms went down for maintenance.
vocenoctum Aug 9th 2011 11:52AM
Yesterday I had the oddest thing, I zone in on my healer, I"m group leader, we're at the entrance of Heroic Deadmines. Tank moves up to wait for the cannon blast at the doorway but it doesn't arrive so we head in.
Instance is cleared up to Reaper, tank asks, I ask, but no one would admit to being from the "first" group. We finished the instance without a problem, but I don't know what happened!
vocenoctum Aug 9th 2011 12:00PM
Yesterday I also had the group droppage, bear tank left group after rolling Need on Anhurs' hymnal (hit + spellpower trinket) and losing the mage. What an odd game.
vocenoctum Aug 9th 2011 2:06PM
losing TO the mage...
Psycholips Aug 9th 2011 8:09AM
If I'm on a DPS class I just bite the bullet. If I'm playing a healer / tank alt, I don't usually have as much an issue, as I can "Control" the flow of the party by my actions.
I ran into something like this just last night. One of the DPS (Paladin) was in Holy Spec, queued and flagged as DPS, but using a Sword and Shield to melee.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10389482/WoWScrnShot_080811_205248.jpg
I understand that Blizzard has iLevel restrictions on later dungeons, but why is it that specific classes can LFG with specs they just don't have? A Holy only spec Pally shouldn't be able to queue as DPS, and a Resto / Balance dual-spec Druid shouldn't be able to queue as a tank. I realize in some cases certain mixes can do the other at an okay performance level, but the 1-80 range seems like the time people should be learning their class roles, not putting the rest of us through a rolling tutorial. :(
cj Aug 9th 2011 8:16AM
Some healers/tanks queue as as their spec but solo as DPS. It would be kind of hard to do that if they weren't aloud to change specs.
Scuac Aug 9th 2011 10:16AM
@cj
i think you misunderstood. The complaint is about a class queuing as a spec they don't have at all. A paladin that is dual spec in healing and dps should not be allowed to queue as a tank.
bandrules2006 Aug 9th 2011 10:27AM
I had the same thing happen to me while I was healing not too long ago (Note this was in a lower to mid-40's dungeon, can't remember which one). There was another priest in the same pug as I and was que'd as dps but was spec'd holy. Then towards the end of the pug the other priest told me to take a break healing so he can heal, and then proceeded to heal the group anyways.
Psycholips Aug 9th 2011 11:35AM
Yeah, the issue was in regards to players focusing on roles in which their specs do not allow. I can see this as being a smaller issue 1-30, but when Dual-spec becomes available to all, it's just mind numbing to see a Ret Pally spec'd and queued as a Tank, especially if their secondary is Holy.
It's not as if players go into a rage mode and leave, but I'm sure I"m not the only one who grumbles when a Shadow priest says they can keep the group healed, or when a Balance druid says they can toss up some HoT's in between DPS'ing when flagged as the healer, especially in the later dungeons of Old World content.
niko Aug 9th 2011 11:47AM
Have you ever heard of the Shockadin? They are Holy spec'd that dps just fine with a sword and shield equipped (although they spellcast more than melee).
He'd also melee to get mana back.
I see your screenshot does not have enough information to warrant such a claim of his nub'y-ness.
Psycholips Aug 9th 2011 12:02PM
I'm sorry the screen-cap didn't grab the reply. The point still remains though.
As I don't want this to turn into a pissing contest, my view on self-entitled puggers is that just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Yes, more often than not others have to deal with it, but it's annoying when you wait in a queue for some length just to have your healer show up as a Ret Pally with enough mana to survive a single trash pull. Or for your Tank to be a resto druid with virtually no stamina.
I'm sure there's a dozen holes that could be punched in these comparisons, and who knows if it could be implemented. It was just one of my frustrations that happened to coincide with the theme of this article.
Draelan Aug 9th 2011 8:25PM
This is a debatable topic. At higher levels, everyone should be queued up for rolls they're actually spec'd/geared for. At lower levels, it's a lot more flexible, though still a good idea to use the proper spec, especially for tanking or healing. However, there's no reason a more experienced player cannot perform well even if they're not spec'd right in certain circumstances.
For example, I have a Tauren Shaman on a different realm. He's by far my highest level toon there, and is only now gaining access to Northrend quests/dungeons. I leveled him as resto using the Dungeon Finder mostly, on those rare occasions I found myself playing this toon. Back before they lowered the level and cost requirement of Dual Spec (it was still 1000g, far beyond my means), when my shammy was in the late 40s, early 50s range, I queued up as Healer/DPS, despite only having a resto spec. (My thinking being that I could do fine as caster DPS, since I was at least reasonably geared towards it) Surprisingly, I got pulled into a fresh Sunken Temple run as DPS. One group member immediately called me on this. I explained to him that I understood that resto was not a DPS spec, and assured him that if I was unable to pull my weight, I would leave so they could get a real DPSer. He was still skeptical, but we continued. At the end of the dungeon, I had proven my worth by remaining being second overall in DPS and damage, and not far behind number 1. (Remember! Alt realm, so I had no heirloom, either!) He apologized for doubting me, and I assured him I was not offended, and so we parted on good terms.
Anyway, my point is, for an EXPERIENCED player, it's not such a big deal in the pre-60 levels. You merely need to ask if the player understands that what they're doing is not the normally accepted way of doing things, and that IF they did it on purpose and are unable to pull their weight, they should be willing to step down.
cj Aug 9th 2011 8:10AM
I quite enjoy the "complain and leave" puggers myself. The instance is over and everyone says "GJ" except for the one pugger who had something to say the whole instance and waited till the end even though it hardly mattered and then left... I salute you!
Lipstick Aug 9th 2011 8:11AM
I don't.
Depending on the hour, time, skill of the player. Sometimes a quick ignore does wonders, and I carry on with the dungeon content I will never have to see or deal with them again.
Other times I've been known to use the ready check feature to take a "vote" on what we're doing. In the event the majority wants something and the person is being difficult, a request is made of the person to drop group. If they refuse, a vote to kick follows.
Other times I've realized that my own demands in response to the other member's demands are an issue. If the entire group wants to skip a boss and I don't I'm given the option of forgoing the boss or leaving.
LFG runs are not a long term investment. If your not happy you have the ability to /ignore, continue on, or leave/ask them/force them to leave.
My biggest advice though is to suck it up. Honestly, one run of a dungeon where you don't get a chance at an achievement, you have to skip one boss, will not kill you. Just as working on an achievement you have no interest in, or doing all the extra bosses you have no interest in will kill you either. It adds a slight bit of time to your run certainly, but more than likely arguing about it will take more time than just doing it.
It wouldn't kill all of us to be a bit nicer to each other in LFG.