The Care and Feeding of Warriors: The newly 85 warrior tank blues

Okay, so you leveled as protection. Let's assume you intend to tank on said warrior. Since you're now level 85, it follows that you should look up what the top raiding tanks are doing and do that, yes?
No.
Sweet candy-coated Garrosh clusters, no, you should not do that. Those guys are wearing gear you haven't even started to collect and are in 10- or 25-man raids that are composed of some of the best players in the world. You're just starting. You're most likely going to be tanking in pickup groups where the other four players are complete strangers who neither know you nor care one whit about your gameplay. In some cases, sure, you'll get a good group and everyone will work together and kill the monsters as a unit. That's great.
I'm here to write columns to help you out, and frankly, you don't need help with good groups. You need my help for the groups with the fury warrior in full Firelands gear who shows up in your heroic Deadmines run and does 28k DPS. (I said I was sorry.) You need my help for the ret paladin who doesn't know what his interrupt is called (Rebuke) or the mage who won't cast Polymorph because it's just going to break anyway when he starts jumping around casting Arcane Explosion constantly for no reason.
This week, we're going to talk about how to gear and play a tank starting out in normal level 85 instances and the first tier of Cataclysm heroics.
Hit and Expertise: Why they matter for you
You're going to hear a lot of talk about hit and expertise being useless. Ignore that talk.
I'm not telling you to ignore it because it's wrong but because it does not apply to you. When you start building a ilevel 353/359 tanking set to go into raids, you can start worrying about reforging away hit and expertise in favor for avoidance and mastery. This is because of several related facts.
- Raids are usually performed by groups who all have a reason to work together. Whether it's a pickup raid or a guild group, raids that don't learn cooperation and proper tactics, even with the recent nerfs to normal tier 11 raids, will not get that far.
- Raids usually have a leader or leaders who will enforce discipline. If there's a fury warrior who keeps pulling threat in a raid, it's reasonable to expect the raid leader or leaders will tell him or her to cool it down.
- As a result of 1 and 2, tanks in raids have time to let Vengeance stack up. Vengeance is a great ability, one that was originally aimed at helping tanks who geared for survival keep threat generation on par with DPS who geared for DPS. However, it's become a bit of a Band-Aid lately for tanks who strip hit and expertise off of their gear in favor of avoidance and mastery, especially in raids where the DPS can more often be counted on to give the tanks time to build some threat. A miss or two in a raid in the very beginning of a pull is much less of an issue.
But you're not tanking with a raid leader who will bellow at the DPS if they pull threat because they didn't wait to let you get it. You're not tanking with a group that even knows who you are, in some cases. You're tanking with complete strangers who want to burn this stuff down as fast as they can, grab their points, and dump you as fast as they met you. In a perfect world, you could do what the endgame tanks do and gear for avoidance and mastery.
It's my suggestion that you instead prepare for the world you actually live in and have at least some threat pieces you can swap into your tanking set in case you get a group that is less than patient. Again, if you get a group that doesn't go nuts, follows marks, and works with you, then by all means put on your maximum survival kit and enjoy your excellent PUG. It never hurts to keep some of the expertise and hit on a few pieces in your bags for when you need that burst threat at the very beginning of a pull.
Also, don't forget that you can use Retaliation in defensive stance now. This is an excellent ability for compensating for low threat stats on gear.
In the end, I'm not telling you that the prevailing wisdom on hit and expertise for cutting-edge, progression raiding content is incorrect. I'm telling you that if you just dinged 85, you're not in progression content yet, and you shouldn't try and gear that way right away.

One of the secrets behind why you should PVP as you level up is that your honor points are effectively a second set of justice points to fudge the cap. If you build up 4,000 JP by the time you're level 85, you can almost immediately buy the tier 11 legs and gloves, or chest and gloves, and have a nice jump on gear. If you also have 4,000 honor points, you can convert it to justice points after you've spent your cap and have another 2,600 or so JPs, enough to pick up your third piece of tier 11 and kick some points towards the tanking ring.
Likewise, reputation grinds are not just there to irritate you. Yes, there's nice gear in the Zul'Aman/Zul'Gurub tier of heroics, and yes, the JPs you get for running heroics can now buy you tier 11 gear, and yes, the valor points can be stockpiled toward getting you pieces of tier 12 and other epics on that level. But reputation gear can get you a leg up on getting into those heroics. And let me be frank here: Picking up a bunch of PVP gear and wearing it to tank in is always going to be suboptimal now because resilience doesn't work against NPC damage anymore.
In The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King, resilience worked directly against critical hit chance, making it kind of a poor man's defense for warrior tanks. With the removal of defense entirely and the change of resilience to simply reduce damage dealt by players, resilience is now a completely useless stat in PVE content. Sometimes, yes, a PVP piece will have so much more stamina than a PVE piece that you'll be tempted to make use of it as a tank. But in almost every case, you'd be better off with a ilevel 346 blue that has complete tanking stats than a ilevel 384 epic that dumps more than 200 points of rating on resilience. Worse is a tank who has gear that is simply not up to the instance but who uses his or her PVP set to fool the gear requirement check on the Dungeon Finder. A DPSer who does that hurts the group by providing less DPS than needed, but a tank who does that hurts the group by exploding and wiping everyone. Don't be that tank.
We've covered where to get reputation gear from the launch factions and the new Firelands rep and vendor gear as well. When you can easily assemble a fairly solid set of tanking gear purely by doing daily quests, there's no excuse to not do it before heading into instances. There are two ilevel 365 tanking rings, a 365 tanking trinket, tanking boots, and tanking bracers available via the Molten Front vendors, and you can pick up a 365 tanking cape via the Elemental Bonds quests. Don't get greedy and try and cheat with PVP gear.
To sum it all up:
- Do gear for threat as well as survival. Assemble multiple sets if you need to.
- Do collect reputation gear, and use honor points to buy justice points for JP tanking gear.
- Don't use PVP gear to get into instances you're not ready to tank yet.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, The Burning Crusade, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors, Wrath of the Lich King, Cataclysm






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Larka Aug 13th 2011 4:16PM
I'm an ol'bc tank, and one thing i learned is, you end up having to know not only your class but everyone elses not to yell and scream at them but politely point out "Hey pally can you please use your interupt?"....."yes you do its called rebuke check your spell book"..."np"
vocenoctum Aug 13th 2011 5:09PM
"Okay Druid, can you Hibernate that one?"
::30 seconds of silence::
"You have to find it in your spellbook, don't you?"
"haha, sorry"
(No one remembers paladin/druid CC, not even them.)
Matt Aug 13th 2011 11:03PM
@vocenoctum
As a druid, I'd like to point out that hibernate SUCKS.
It says "up to 40 seconds". In the times I've used it, I've never seen it last longer than 10 (and it still causes threat unlike the other CCs). Entangling Roots is a FAR better CC.
Sqtsquish Aug 13th 2011 11:09PM
Repentance and hibernate respectively- most of the people I come across play dumb about CC because they would rather you give up on CC and tank everything and let them blow their aoe.
zzrryll Aug 13th 2011 4:21PM
You forgot to mention Fireheart Necklace from Zen'Vorka; that is a fairly decent 365 tanking neck. It has expertise and mastery so it is pretty good for a newly dinged 85 tank.
vocenoctum Aug 13th 2011 5:07PM
While he mentioned the boots along with the other gear, it should be noted that:
The Amulet (meant for dps I assume) and Boots (straightup tanking) are available on Day 1 of the Dailies.
The rings, bracers, trinket are available 20-30 days later after all the dailies unlock stuff. It's good if you're mostly gearing an alt or only play sometimes, but if you're raiding, it's not as useful to wait that long.
And of course, if you can find it or build it, the tanking sword is nice also from Molten Front.
The necklace is expertise/mastery, I have one for my dps set and another reforged expertise into dodge I think, not as good as "dedicated", but still a nice piece for 70g :)
(and you'll probably make the 70g doing the leadin quests!)
Thayer Aug 13th 2011 4:38PM
Where would I go to buy sweet candy-coated Garrosh clusters? They sound gooooood.
Matthew Rossi Aug 13th 2011 5:02PM
There's an orc named Garrosh who sells them, downtown Orgrimmar. Bring 39 friends if you're Alliance.
Thayer Aug 13th 2011 7:40PM
I happen to be Horde. Thus, I will happily step five paces "that way" and watch you and your 39 friends, waiting patiently to claim some sweet candy-coated Garrosh clusters when you're done. Heck, I'll even cheer you on.
Angus Aug 14th 2011 12:18PM
I'll be next to Thayer, cheering. I'd dance naked, but that might distract them.
zubbiefish Aug 13th 2011 4:42PM
Oooh! I await next week with bated breath.
I've managed to flub my way through a bunch of instances at 85 (some even Zul,whathaveyous), but I'm far from comfortable.
A bit of advice from "The man of 1000 warriors" would go along way.
Jabadabadana Aug 13th 2011 4:46PM
This guide needs to read by a Lot of new tanks, of all the tank classes.
As content progresses, holding threat becomes harder and harder when you're new, as more people have a leg (or 2) up on you. In addition, there are more healers out there with more gear, who can keep you from splattering when you choose not to remove your hit/expertise. You can get a group with a low geared healer and tank, and it's going to suck, and you're going to have to take it very carefully, but they get rarer as time goes on.
Also, remember that until you're raiding, you're gearing for 87, not 88. You may find points left for avoidance/mitigation sooner if you don't gear for raids initially.
Ianmis Aug 13th 2011 5:27PM
Good article, especially the part about not cheating the system. Unfortunately, the people who need this advice don't read the site, no matter how many times I tell them about it. 8_(
Going into the Zs and finding people in multiple greens is just saddening. I find myself wondering why the first tier of heroics only provides half the valor points of the trolleroics. Sure, at first, it made sense but I feel we have passed that point with t11 gear being available with justice points. It seems like blizz is forcing people to run the tier 2 heroics even if they don't really have the proper gear to do so just to cap their valor.
Last night I had two dps that couldn't get too 10k dps and a healer that was out of mana on every pull and halfway through boss fights, despite having 10% dungeon finder bonus. If it hadn't been for my 20k+ dps (no bragging, just stating) and the tank being as geared and skilled as he was, we wouldn't have gotten as far as we did.
(btw, the tank was a prot warrior and my friend. So I felt it was okay to tell this story and ask the question here. Also, I'm leveling a prot warrior and I may be changing my main. Charge is so much fun. :D )
Ianmis Aug 13th 2011 5:30PM
sry, didn't explicitly say that I was in ZG for that "fail" group.
Ianmis Aug 13th 2011 6:06PM
Question time!
I was thinking about getting into pvp with my warrior, which is a big thing for me as I really just don't pvp and can't stand world (gank the lowbie or unsuspecting pve player who is senseless { http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Arelion%27s_Secret } flagged by a quest) pvp. I really want to do it as protection spec too. I like hitting mobs and people with my shield. Would anyone know some good sites to find tips for pvp protection playing? I realize prot is probably not a good killing spec but it seems like it would be great for causing confusion and messing opponents up so others can kill them.
Also, I could use some tips for pve and pvp prot warrior add-ons. ty
Pocky Aug 13th 2011 5:56PM
Ok, so as I mentioned before in a Warrior column a couple weeks ago, I'm an 85 Prot War who's never tanked and was looking for advice. However, I'm confused by something in this article:
1 "You're going to hear a lot of talk about hit and expertise being useless. Ignore that talk." - so I understand this to mean DON'T strip off hit and exp.
2 "The reason you will want to strip hit and expertise off of your gear in favor for dodge, parry and mastery is that you're starting instances as an undergeared tank, and you don't want to go splat." - so I understand this to mean I SHOULD strip off hit and exp.
3 "It's my suggestion that you instead prepare for the world you actually live in and have at least some threat pieces you can swap into your tanking set in case you get a group that is less than patient." - so I understand this to mean DON'T strip off hit and exp, since hit and exp are threat generating stats.
Huh? That's conflicting advice. So as a Prot war with mostly quest blues and some reg instance blues, do I or don't I strip off hit and exp for dodge, parry and mastery?
I'm confoozled.
Ianmis Aug 13th 2011 6:14PM
To put more simply, you will want hit and expertise for 5 man dungeons to ensure that you maintain threat on mobs and bosses since you are less likely to be coordinated with those in your group. You may look at the other players as uncontrollable guardian pets as you might have to make up for their random acts. (and fail hunters and rogues who refuse to use misdirect and tricks of the trade.)
For raiding, you will be less likely to need as much hit and expertise, as the other players in the group will be working with you to to make things go smoothly.
It should be noted that you will need less hit and expertise for 5 mans than raiding. I believe it is 6% hit and 23% expertise. Not 100% sure about the expertise, may be less.
Tolarindr Aug 13th 2011 6:30PM
He means both. If you have the ability have one gear set where your survivability is emphasized, and one where hit/exp is emphasized. If you have overzealous dps, stuff isn't really going to last very long to begin with, so survival shouldn't be an issue. What WILL be an issue is trying to hold threat against them.
Other way around. If you have patient or undergeared dps, they will allow you to generate threat even if you miss the first attack, so you can afford to lose hit/exp because stuff will be living longer, and defensive stats are better if the mobs are beating on you more.
Teaspoon Aug 13th 2011 9:46PM
The way I interpreted item number 2 was that you'll want to strip hit and exp in the sense of being TEMPTED to do so, but for 5-mans in particular you really really want to be hitting reliably. For attacking level 87s (ie, 5-man bosses and raid trash), hit and expertise are capped at 6% and 24 respectively, which are both 721 rating. Outside of reaching those caps, reforge everything possible to mastery and then what's left to dodge. You'll have much higher parry than dodge even after reforging as much as you can due to the free parry rating you get from the strength on your gear. Avoidance is better than stamina this expansion (in my opinion, anyway), so I recommend using your blue sockets for hit (I go the sensei's emerald for hit+mastery) instead of the stam that tanks traditionally go for, so that you don't have to reforge away as much of your avoidance to get hit-capped.
The reason I recommend piling on mastery is that a) you get 10 rage every time you block, so mastery makes sure you get some avoidance (or pseudo-avoidance) without missing out on rage, and b) critical block chance applies as a fraction of your block chance rather than as a fraction of all incoming swings so there's kind of some back-loading in terms of damage reduction there.
Arrohon Aug 13th 2011 10:52PM
He's saying that you should gear for survivability because your lower quality gear means you'll go splat more easily so you need to minimize that more now than once you've built a quality pre-raid set. However; if you notice that dps are pulling off of you and won't listen to you tell them to slow dps if their aggro gets too high (only 1% will likely listen... if that) put on a few pieces with hit and expertise so they don't pull anymore. Try to gear as much for survivability as you can while still maintaining threat is the basic message.