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8-17-2011 @ 2:05PM
The larger part of the silhouette theory is that you could tell friend vs foe very easily. That remains in tact and it's also the greatest argument against a dual faction race.
8-17-2011 @ 2:16PM
I don't know if I buy the cross-faction silouhette argument. My Orb of the Sin'dorei has yet to save me from being killed in a BG or world PvP. People know that it's dead if it's red. Doesn't really matter if it looks like a Tauren or a Human.Beside, Arenas and RBGs already allow you to fight the same faction, and I have yet to hear any widespread complaints about people not knowing who their teammates are.
8-17-2011 @ 2:15PM
I am still of the mindset that the color of the name and character plate is enough for me to tell friend or foe.Color-blind? Friends don't have a health bar above their heads, and your cursor doesn't turn into a sword when you mouse over them. I believe these are even quicker ways to identify a character. You can determine if it is aggressive first, and then in terms of PvP, still have a shot to guess it's class from a distance, because we still won't get Paladins dressed in Mage gear.The concept that you -need- the use the gear profile to determine if someone is Horde or Alliance has always been a bit silly, in my view. The races look different enough as it is, and the inclusion of items that turn people into pirates or skeletons or etc has been used to circumvent this anyway, forcing people to rely on the health bars or cursor change options.As soon as I first saw the picture of the Transmogrifier, I was very hopeful this meant I could make use of old armor sets, that we were getting rid of the silhouette theory, and that yes - we may just get cross-faction Pandaren to play. Quite glad I have not been alone in this TFH theory pondering, at least.
8-17-2011 @ 2:27PM
First, let's be honest - silhouette recognition only matters in PvP, anyway. And to be more specific, only in world PvP and in battlegrounds, since arena can pit you against a team from either faction. The only reason battlegrounds haven't been altered to the same philosophy (for rated battlegrounds) is that the maps are designed as faction vs. faction. Wouldn't it be weird to be an alliance team defending an orc?Honestly, the whole silhouette recognition only matters if you're zoomed way in. From the distance most people set their camera, it's not as significant, and with all the movement and effects flashing around, you have to rely on the other indicators (the red health bar, the sword cursor, the ability to tab target) to locate the threat in time. You're not going to sit there saying, "okay, that's a tauren, that's a forsaken... aha, I see a gnom- wait, no, that's a goblin with a hood..."I'm thrilled they're offering Transmogrification, and if they want to start utilizing bi-factional races, I won't argue.
8-17-2011 @ 2:39PM
To be honest, I never EVER watch at silhouttes in PvP. BGs are generally madness and chaos unless you have a premade, even more in TB or AV. I just watch the life bars and the color of them. If it is white is a priest, if it is deep red, is a Death Knight, etc (I use Threat Plates). From there I can figure out what to do.But I don't really care if they are in full S10 Glorious Conquest or are wearing blues, they'll get their face mangled just the same.
8-17-2011 @ 2:57PM
I can tell that the dude over there is an enemy because he has a big red nameplate floating over his head. Don't need a silhouette to tell me that.
8-17-2011 @ 4:07PM
I've never really "understood" the silhouette idea.For one, the only races I can truly identify by shape are the tauren and dwarves (and sometimes orcs), at least know that we have two diminutive races (goblins & gnomes).Secondly, I never used it. Honestly. Never once have I had to look far into the distance and judge by shape whether a player was Horde or Alliance. Not once.In BG's, red name is bad. Same for arenas. Same for everything, in fact. But even discounting that, by the time that I truly NEED to know which side a guy is on, he's already close enough for me to positively ID him based on the fact that he's tall, blue, and has tusks."Oh, well, that must be an elf," I think.No. Wait, I actually think that its a troll. Because it is. My point is that the main argument against the silhouette idea is maximum cast distance. Are their truly any classes that have spells with such a long range that they have to be able to identify a little tiny silhouette on the horizon? No. And even if their were, all they'd have to do is look at the cursor.So good move, Blizz. Now I can wear all those old sets that I saved in the (apparently not so) vain hope that I could wear them again./salute
8-17-2011 @ 4:48PM
Just to name a couple cases. Rated BGs are the end game of PvP, along with arenas, and in both cases there can and will be Horde vs. Horde and Alliance vs. Alliance matches, and it doesn't change anything nor anyone complains, as Mr. Whitcomb stated. If it mattered in the least these matches would be unplayable. People tab target / bar-click their enemies, never caring if it looks like a gnome or a tauren. If you are uncertain about this, go to TB and find a safe spot to Mind Control an enemy during a chaotic brawl, you'll see that enemy lose health instantly, or die, killed by his own allies.And about the 'power' an enemy holds. Be sure that when you go into an arena people do not wait for their enemy shoulders to be visible to decide which target to kill first. The health pool happens to be a clear distinction between a geared and ungeared player. Wanna try it out? equip the biggest meanest shoulders in the game and adjust the rest of the gear to get 90k HP, and see how 4 out 5 times you'll be the very first target to be attacked*.* Might depend on compositions, so for experimental procedure team with your same class.
8-17-2011 @ 5:43PM
There is one silhouette I want my enemies in the Horde to see. A double-headed big sort of bloke with a massive great stick. In short, I want an Ogre Warlock in Alliance colors.Come on, Blizzard, you know it makes sense.
8-17-2011 @ 6:26PM
@Daniel WhitcombAfter I read your post I made this.http://imgur.com/uoUIh
8-17-2011 @ 6:48PM
Whitcomb for president! I so agree with you. I notice enemies by the color of their names, not by silhouettes. Sometimes when a player is far, you couldn't tell what it is, but you still can see the color of their name. In close-range, my V is always on so I see the healthpool-bar of the bad guys on the screen.
8-17-2011 @ 7:30PM
Yeah, I don't necessarily buy the whole silhouette notion either. Good grief, sometimes it's hard to tell the gender of a fully geared up character (obviously this affects some races more than others....BE's...I'm looking at you).I correctly called what Transmogrification was for, but I'm still skeptical on the whole playable pandas idea. While I wouldn't be opposed to playing a panda, I do NOT care for the idea of a SINGLE bi-faction race--a race that would essentially be embroiled in a civil war.Now, if Blizz decided to make it so that any race could choose their faction loyalty and align themselves via gaining rep...that would be a different story.
8-17-2011 @ 7:45PM
Tidy Plates/Threat Plates has made silhouette recognition obsolete. You are also much more likely to look at the unitframe of your target for his health and mana raw number and/or percentage than look at the player himself. You can actually tell a lot more about a player by looking at his unitframe - a paladin with a high amount of mana, for example, would have to be holy. A death knight with a lot of health would be a blood DK. Also if you can see their buffs - the difference between an elemental shaman and a resto shaman can be seen if they are using lightning shield or water/earth shield.
8-17-2011 @ 8:00PM
I'm not saying silhouettes are really NEEDED or that I'm in favor of them, but I think all these people saying they never look at silhouettes to figure out class/race are sort of missing the point of the silhouette. You're not supposed to have to actually stop and look to see what class or race the other person is. The entire point of a silhouette is so that once you see the person, you automatically know, "Hey, this is an orc so I should kill him, and he's a DK so that will affect my strategy." I think silhouettes are very effective in that regard, as evidenced by the fact that a lot of people don't even realize they serve a purpose. It's not supposed to be something you think about.Now, if silhouettes go away will that be terrible? Probably not, but it will definitely change the feel of WoW.
8-17-2011 @ 11:28PM
I find it a bit depressing that so many players prefer their game interactions to be determined by static UI elements over immersion.
8-17-2011 @ 11:33PM
Also, Arenas and Rated Battlegrounds pit same factions against each other? Did I miss something, or is this just referring to the War Games feature? I was fairly certain regular queueing didn't pit you Alliance vs. Alliance, but it's been awhile for me.
8-18-2011 @ 11:35AM
Silhouette recognition is mainly effects average players- people who mainly look at the action on the screen, not so much bars, numbers, etc. Red is dead for the most part, but from far away, you can't tell sometimes, especially if you don't have your plates up. My troll rogue got a lot of PMs from other horde telling me that they thought I was a NE, and that was the point. I had chosen small tusks and NE colors so that confusion would occur, and it did for certain players.If that isn't enough for you, look into a little game called Darkfall Online. The game allows for Free For All pvp (read: no faction boundaries for language or grouping), but there are some mild indicators for soft factions (you can attack anyone, but the game slightly discourages killing of racial allies, which players can actually choose to ignore). When the game was released, many people relied on silhouette recognition and (sometimes) "red is dead." That is, if you were a wolf man, and you saw a human, you would attack the human. The problem was that sometimes you didn't notice the human was in your alliance (groups of guilds that share a chat channel) or maybe even your party. Large battles where you relied on silhouette recognition could end up with a lot of team frags, so players had to find other ways of identifying enemies (unless they were willing to get close enough to read what guild the other guy was in, at which point it may be too late to avoid a fight).Eventually this changed so that your allies (chosen by players, not the game devs) were "green" and anyone who declared war on your guild was "red." Team frags still occurred at certain distances for some guilds (ones made up of many different races and mixed allies), but more "racially pure" guilds still relied on silhouette recognition... often to their disadvantage. Silhouetting is a newbie friendly mechanic, not for advanced players. If you think most players look at enemy buffs, hp, etc, maybe you haven't hit a pug BG in awhile. Try it out and see how often people keep attacking the biggest target, closest player, etc, rather than the squishy healers, gnome rogue that's killing everyone, etc. ;P
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