The new tanking threat paradigm and you

- Threat generated by tanks has been increased from 300% of damage dealt to 500%. What this means in practice is if your tank is doing 5k DPS, you'd need to do over 25k DPS to pull threat off of him or her. (You need to do roughly 110% of tank threat to pull once he or she has aggro, so you'd actually need to do 27.5k DPS to pull off of a tank doing 5k DPS.) This change was hotfixed in, so if you're noticing your tank is suddenly doing a lot more threat per second, that's why.
- The way Vengeance stacks is going to be streamlined. Vengeance currently ramps up somewhat slowly. In the current model, every time you take damage as a tank, you gain 5% of the damage you take as attack power. So if you're hit for 20,000 damage, you gain 1,000 attack power. As you take more and more damage, this stacks up to a maximum of 10% of your health, so for a tank with 165,000 health, this caps at 16,500 attack power. In the new version, when a tank takes that 20,000 damage, he or she will gain one-third of the damage of the attack as attack power immediately, or 6,600 AP. This is more than six times as much attack power gained as in the current model. Vengeance will otherwise work the way it does now.
This is really groundbreaking stuff, and it means that patch 4.3 will see the complete dismantling of the legacy of vanilla WoW tanking design. Once, gaining and keeping threat was the most important role of the tank, more important even that survival, and many endgame tanks were warriors 31/5/15 specced into Defiance in the protection tree to ensure threat. These changes can be seen as driving a final nail into that kind of tanking's coffin.
Getting threat to matter to tanks didn't happen
What's really interesting here is that these changes effectively admit that tanks simply don't choose threat stats on their gear, even when it might have been necessary to hold threat. Undergeared tanks in 5-man dungeons can choose to pick up gear with a mix of threat and avoidance/mitigation, and die, or pick up as much pure avoidance/mitiagtion as possible and reforge what threat stats remain as much as they can, and possibly live. More interesting is the admission that tanking still suffers to some extent from an inherent scaling limitation caused by threat. Vengeance was created to keep tanks scaling as well as DPS when tanks choose avoidance and mitigation while DPSers choose stats that will, of course, increase their DPS.
Vengeance does its job just fine in raids or instances where the tank is comparably geared to his or her DPS. A tier 12 tank can hold threat against her tier 12 raid. The troubles begin when a tank in gear just good enough to get into a Zandalari pickup group gets a DPSer who simply outclasses him or her to degrees that Vengeance simply doesn't currently stack fast enough to overcome. In a situation where a trash pack of four mobs is going to eat a burst of pure DPS coming close to 70K in 4 seconds, there's very little a newcomer tank can do. With these changes, it'll be a lot less likely for highly geared DPSers to rip threat off of a tank, because the tank's 12k DPS will count for 60k threat per second.
If threat doesn't matter, will tanks matter?
With threat design now attempting to eliminate DPS throttling -- or at least greatly minimize it -- allowing undergeared tanks to hold threat in Dungeon Finder groups and removing the debate over threat stats on tanking gear (essentially saying to tanks, "We have heard you -- you don't want hit or expertise on gear"), the challenge becomes one of keeping tanks involved in their ability choices. At present, good tanks using their complete toolkits can hold aggro very effectively, but the fear is that with these changes, poor tanks will seem like good tanks and good tanks won't have anything to do but wait for huge damage spikes to use their cooldowns. The discussion then becomes one of what tanking will be like, and it's fascinating to consider just how far the changes could go for some classes.
Long-term changes
You could argue that once threat is very easy to manage that a warrior tank could just go AFK. In reality, given today's boss encounters, an AFK warrior would end up standing in the wrong place, missing a tank transition, or otherwise do something or fail to do something that wipes the party or raid.
That said, we ultimately don't want tanking to be just standing there soaking boss hits and we would like to have more stats on gear that tanks care about. To solve those challenges, we want to shift more tank mitigation to require active management. We'll still give all the tanks emergency cooldowns like Shield Wall and Survival Instincts. However, we want to move the shorter cooldowns like Shield Block, Holy Shield and Savage Defense so that they work more like Death Strike. Blood DKs have a lot of control over the survivability they get from Death Strike, but as part of that gameplay, they have to actually hit their target. The other three tanks will get similar active defense mechanics. This doesn't mean everyone needs to use the DK model of self-healing, but they can use the DK model of managing resources to maximize survivability.
You could argue that once threat is very easy to manage that a warrior tank could just go AFK. In reality, given today's boss encounters, an AFK warrior would end up standing in the wrong place, missing a tank transition, or otherwise do something or fail to do something that wipes the party or raid.
That said, we ultimately don't want tanking to be just standing there soaking boss hits and we would like to have more stats on gear that tanks care about. To solve those challenges, we want to shift more tank mitigation to require active management. We'll still give all the tanks emergency cooldowns like Shield Wall and Survival Instincts. However, we want to move the shorter cooldowns like Shield Block, Holy Shield and Savage Defense so that they work more like Death Strike. Blood DKs have a lot of control over the survivability they get from Death Strike, but as part of that gameplay, they have to actually hit their target. The other three tanks will get similar active defense mechanics. This doesn't mean everyone needs to use the DK model of self-healing, but they can use the DK model of managing resources to maximize survivability.
Right now, resources generally generate threat. Using a protection warrior as an example, as rage comes in, it's spent to use Shield Slam, Revenge, Devastate, Thunder Clap, Shockwave and Rend, Cleave or Heroic Strike. These abilities all cost rage in most cases (Shield Slam can be free with a Sword and Board proc), while big tanking cooldowns like Shield Wall and Last Stand do not. Shield Block costs rage, but it's a fairly trivial amount; it still means that Shield Block works somewhat like the Death Strike example listed above already. If Shield Block could miss, cost more rage, and was more often active (at present Shield Block is a 1-minute cooldown that can be talented down to 30 seconds with full Shield Mastery), then it could serve in a similar role as an active mitigation ability.
The active mitigation model and its problems
Of course, the problem with the current DK model is that, just as most tanks will sacrifice threat stats to increase survivability, it's very compelling for DK tanks to hoard their resources (runes and runic power) to use Death Strike over and over again. In short, giving tanks the model of managing resources to maximize survival while also making threat effectively trivial means it is very likely for tanks to hoard their resources and only use the survival ability. The biggest threat of a system that combines resource management for survival and a complete loss of threat mechanics is if that system doesn't have significant options that will make tanks have to make decisions. Even now, DK tanks often spam Death Strike every single time the runes allow, and that's not choice any more than the old days of warrior tanks hitting Shield Block every 6 seconds to push Crushing Blows off the table was choice. It's not choice if you never decide not to do it. That design was admittedly not compelling or fun, and neither is spamming Death Strike.
One possibility is to give each tank two or three ways to increase survivability, perhaps keying these options into current offensive moves. At present, a warrior tank has three major debuffs that increase her survivability and/or threat (Demoralizing Shout and Thunder Clap reduce the enemy attack power and attack speed respectively, while Devastate applies Sunder Armor, reducing enemy armor and increasing the party or raid's damage) while also managing his or her threat moves. In order to retain the complexity of the warrior rotation, you could easily imagine extending the system already in place, where offensive moves like Thunder Clap or Devastate also provide survival. Shield Slam, for instance, could provide the warrior with an increased chance to block after it lands, while Revenge could boost parry similarly.
Instead of having one ability like Death Strike that fills every niche, spread the survival out amoung several and make it so the tank can choose which he wants to use for the situation. By using current attacks to provide specific kinds of survival boosts, the tank could choose between using them in order to increase his or her chance to endure specific kinds of damage. Making Spell Reflection provide direct magic damage reduction and a chance to reflect some damage back to a tanked target versus using Shield Slam to increase your block when tanking a fast swinging physical mob would be a way for a good tank to distinguish himself or herself.
This is just one possibility, of course. What we know is that we'll need to watch all four tanks to determine how their redesigns play into this new active mitigation model. Feral druids could become a particular sticking point for a couple of reasons. One, their gear is already DPS leather; they don't have nearly as many options to dump threat stats as the plate tanks do and end up taking a survival hit. Two, they could end up generating ridiculously higher amounts of threat for the same reason. It's not impossible to imagine ways to design around it, but it's just one issue out of a great many that this new approach to tanking design will bring to the fore.
If you're a tank or considering becoming one, patch 4.3 promises to be interesting indeed. Get ready to relearn tanking again.
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Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Warrior, Death Knight






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Gaurisk Aug 17th 2011 8:10PM
I'm listening to your commentary on the podcast while I type this. Let me ask you this, do you think it's fair to characterize the new threat changes as just the latest attempt to make the busted Rage mechanic work?
Matthew Rossi Aug 17th 2011 8:11PM
No, it's far more sweeping than that. FAR more sweeping. Paladins, druids, warriors and even DK's will see significant changes in 4.3, there's no way they'll leave DK's spamming DS over all else.
Sqtsquish Aug 17th 2011 9:24PM
Personally I think the system works well for dks because of the current "runic tetris" they have to play in order to optimize DS usage, while still keeping up diseases, and managing other cds (imo Lichborne healing should be more active yet strategic as well). Now since most other tanks have more simplistic resource systems, it would be prudent to have multiple tanking cds that use large chunks of resources.
JattTheRogue Aug 17th 2011 11:17PM
@Sqtsquish: The problem is you don't really need to keep up diseases. You have a baseline of 50% up-time with Outbreak anyway, so there's not a huge incentive to sacrifice a Death Strike and two GCDs to keep you diseases up 100% of the time. And the T12 2-piece set bonus, lackluster as it is, means you have even less incentive to put diseases up anymore. That cuts out the "runic Tetris" almost completely since you then basically have two sets of runes: your Unholy and Frost for your Death Strikes and your Blood for Rune Tap and keeping Blade Barrier up. Throw in Blood Tap to immediately get a free Death Rune whenever you need it and DKs don't have a very hard time keeping their runes in line. Sure, you still manage cooldowns and all, but every tank does that.
Karcharos Aug 17th 2011 11:42PM
Matt, once we know start to know more about what's going to change with 4.3, you should get together with the other tanking class columnists and do a couple of joint articles. Even a podcast or two would work.
From the sound of it, this is going to change the game significantly.
*sigh*
I really don't want to have to redo my bars and macros again. What a PITA.
Sidenote: Any 5-man tanks dumping threat stats completely for mitigation? I think I'm sitting at like 4% hit and 12 or 16 expertise with 2T12.
Sqtsquish Aug 18th 2011 1:09AM
Tier bonuses can be very easily redone, as Mr Rossi mentioned in the podcast, things that are considered "necessary debuffs" can easily be retooled to be considered a true survival tool instead of just a optional perk of the class or spec you have chosen.
JattTheRogue Aug 18th 2011 2:29AM
Sure, tier bonuses can be redone (though even without the tier bonus diseases aren't very important), and yeah, optional perks can be retooled, but I'm discussing things as they are right now, as were you in your previous comment. I don't know what things that "could" happen have to do with anything. They "could" let DKs start using a shield and rework Death Strike. But I prefer to discuss what's actually happening.
Dimmak Aug 18th 2011 2:49AM
I do find myself prioritizing DS almost over any other attack. The survivability and damage combo just makes it too tempting. What bothers me is I am not often compelled to use heart strike unless I have nothing else to do or need to refresh my 6% damage debuff. (talking single target) But all in all I feel comfortable where DKs are.
Maintain two diseases to reduce physical damage and attack speed, maintain self damage reduction buff, DS for self heals and threats with runestrikes at higher than 50% runic power. In a troll dungeon I will output 15k dps on a boss ( but thats with a 15% roullet bonus, so in reality its more like 12k ). That's 5 choices on my single target attacks alone.
Now to throw into the mix all our cooldowns: Runetap/Bloodtap for health and rune management.; Ice Bound Fortitude our big cooldown, Vampiric blood our smaller cooldown, maintain bone shield another smaller cooldown, anti magic shields for magic burst, and finally lichborne for that big self heal.
That's 6 more choices and we are not even getting into trinkets ( I use two cooldown trinkets mind you ).
So at this time I sit with a dozen choices to make at every global cooldown as a DK tank and I really enjoy it. I have a bear tank and paladin tank and I don't actually feel I have any choices. Yes, DK is a bit more complicated, but its a lot of fun for me.
While I like the idea of tying different abilities we already have quite a few, though I would like to see Blade Barrier proc whenever HS is used.
Here is a recap of our abilities that are tied to survival for those who don't know DKs
Icy Touch = melee slow debuff 20%
Plague Strike = physical damage debuff 10%
Heart Strike x2 (or any 2 blood runes) = 6% damage reduction buff
Death Strike = Self heal and a physical shield
Rune Strike = possibly refreshing other runes.
Death knight is in a good place right now, and well designed in my opinion.
Sqtsquish Aug 18th 2011 10:32AM
@ Dim
I agree, To many DK tanking seems too easy or all about the DS, which it is to an extent, but given the number and relative shortness of our tanking cds, we spend far more time than many tanks trying to ration CDs according to current incoming damage, the current time remaining on other CDs, the synergy in some of our CDs, and possible future "oh crap" moments, all while making sure we keep a steady influx of DS shields and healing.
If anything we could use a fix for our DS scaling issues, less burst healing from Lichborne in exchange for shorter CD, and more strategic use of DS based on burst damage instead of always spamming it.
gobuywow Aug 17th 2011 8:22PM
Anyway, I like the new threat changes as a paladin tank
Arrohon Aug 17th 2011 8:24PM
Cue the Jaws theme!
Siaperas Aug 17th 2011 8:28PM
I think the tanking changes will be interesting. Active mitigation promises to be fun, or it could be too challenging. It will be interesting seeing how Blizz navigates that potential minefield.
I'm a little concerned about the Vengence stacking/scaling. Theoretically, if the stacks cap too quickly, a tank could prioritize stam as a mitigation/threat stat. Vengence in pvp could make tanks hit too hard too quick as well, which might be an issue. However, I like vengence as a mechanic. Doing meaningful damage in pve feels fun. It's nice when the dps are bragging about their spots on the charts that I'm still contributing meaningful dps to bring the boss down versus Wrath where tank dps was barely noticeable.
I'm sure they'll work out kinks on the PTR though. It's promising some big changes for tanking so far.
MikeLive Aug 17th 2011 8:36PM
I think making active tank gameplay (i.e., general rotation and what you're doing most of the time) centred around survival just makes the older gameplay look really dumb in comparison. A healer heals. A damager damages. A tank should soak up damage.
Not impressed Aug 18th 2011 9:16AM
Exactly, amen!
mdspurrier Aug 17th 2011 8:46PM
As a feral tank I'm very interested in how this whole "new way to tank" will work. If they make make savage defense an actual button push, costing rage, I'm all for it. I can definitely see a redesign of abilities like mangle and maul to increase survivabilty possible.
Kallix Aug 17th 2011 8:56PM
At least as a warrior, I'd love to see a model where our normal rotational abilities like devastate, revenge and shield slam cost rage, and then we had several abilities that costed rage that did different things. For example, Shield Block would increase our block percentage for x amount of seconds, spell reflect would decrease the amount of magical damage we take for x seconds, demo shout would reduce the enemies AP for x seconds, enraged regen self heals for x seconds etc.
That way we could build our rage up with our normal abilities, and then choose an ability to spend it on every 20 seconds or so. Would certainly be more interesting than what we have now at least.
VSUReaper Aug 17th 2011 9:24PM
@ Kallix
Except that's more or less how they already work...
Shield block will increase our chance to block by 25% (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=2565) as well as increase our crit block.
Spell reflect will obviously reflect the spell back at the caster (except bosses) and if you spec for Shield Mastery (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=84608) then you already get the magic reduction. I agree that spell reflect should be the ability providing the spell damage reduction, but it was attached to shield block so that warriors would have an "interesting choice" to make: block the swing, or reduce the magic damage.
Demo Shout and Enraged regen.... you basically described them already.
Demo Shout used to reduce AP, but was changed to reduce physical damage b/c it was becoming OP and scaling horribly in PVP.
Enraged Regen regens roughly 30% health over 10 seconds... exactly what you said.
What I would personally like to see is an ability like WOG or DS that warriors and druids get (druids technically have it already in the form of LOTP, but its a proc and not an on-demand ability) where they can get on demand heals that is not on a really long CD. Enraged regen and frenzied regen are great, but on a 3 min CD means that you cant really affect your own survivability, you can just help the healer catch up on healing the group and you/take the pressure off the healer.
I have no idea what a druid would hit, but what I would like to see for warriors is impending victory become something that we can hit when ever we want (on a CD naturally) or something that proc's off of devastates, and has a small internal CD (so we cant get lucky and spam it like crazy). I think that ability being only usable in the execute rage kills its usefulness, and while I have been using that ability (just out of curiosity), its basically useless 95% of the time. Giving warriors that small boost to self survivability will make all the difference in the world.
Kallix Aug 17th 2011 9:35PM
@VSUReaper
You missed my point entirely. At the moment, we use those abilities differently - Shield block and enraged regen as cds, demo shout we keep up at all times etc. What I meant was that every time we've built up enough rage with our core abilities, we have to make a choice - do we want to block more for the next 20 secs, do we want to reduce inc magical damage etc. You would build up rage and only be able to use one ability to spend it every 20 seconds or so.
bean Aug 17th 2011 8:56PM
I think this will lead to great things. When I tried paladin tanking after raiding on my DK, I was amazed how little control I felt I had over my survivability.
While the "spikiness" of DK tanking isn't great, I welcome the main rotation abilities of other tanks having more of a direct affect on mitigation/survival.
TankadinC Aug 17th 2011 11:24PM
How little control you had as a pally tank? What are you talking about? Holy Shield, GAnK, WoG, Divine Protection, Blessing of Protection (with a cancel aura macro) aren't enough control for you? You can survive much better as a pally tank then as a dK spamming Death strike ever could.