Scattered Shots: Hunter reforging priorities

One of the most common questions asked by hunter is, "How should I reforge my gear?" Reforging is an elusive mystery, and if you listen to a lot of forum comments, you could quickly believe that reforging is the secret key to real ultimate DPS -- if you're not topping the charts, just reforge better to get those last few thousand DPS going your way. On top of that, we have tons of reforging tools available online, often offering contradictory reforging advice.
Happily, reforging is not nearly as complicated as it seems. Today we're going to go over reforging advice for your BM, MM, and SV hunters. I'm going to be giving you my thoughts and research conclusions but also the point of view of some other top theorycrafters. We recently did a Hunting Party Podcast all about stats and theorycrafting with Zeherah from Female Dwarf and Revulva from Ask Mr. Robot. Sadly, unforeseen technical difficulties prevented us from recording the show (we turned on the recording for the sound check, then hit record when it was time to go live, accidentally turning it off -- oops), but the gist of their advice will be included here.
Join me after the cut for everything you really need to know about reforging hunter gear.
Reforging Priority 1: Hit capping
The very first thing you want to consider for reforging is reaching the hit cap. It is better to reforge to the hit cap than to gem for the hit cap, since in the gem slots we could be getting agility, which helps us far more than any secondary stat. The only time you ever want hit rating on a gem is if it's worthwhile to use a purple gem in a blue slot (meaning the socket bonus is worth it -- usually an agility socket bonus).
Raiders need to reach 8% hit chance to be hit-capped against a raid boss, or 961 hit rating. Until we reach that point, hit rating will help us more than any other secondary stat -- and after we reach that point, hit rating is entirely worthless to us.
It's worth noting that the 8% hit cap applies only to raid bosses. If you only run heroics, your hit cap is 6%, which only requires 721 hit rating. For PVP, you'll probably want to pursue a 5% hit chance (601 hit rating), though various player abilities can still cause your to miss from time to time.
Online reforging tools are most useful for reaching the hit cap in the most efficient way possible.
Reforging Priority 2: Crit or haste
There's a lot of discussion about whether crit or haste is the best stat to pursue for reforging and even more discussion about when you want to chase one over the other. Here's the dirty truth: It doesn't really matter.
The one thing that all theorycrafters agree on is that the difference in DPS benefit from crit or haste is tiny. I mean, really small. Smaller than the effects of RNG (randomness) on your DPS. You are not going to see thousands of DPS difference from any kind of reforging between haste and crit. Not a thousand. Not 800. Maybe, maybe you might see a theoretical few hundred DPS.
Of all the specs, MM has the most interesting relationship with haste, with the most permutations of the base rotation. It can be argued that you need to reach some certain amount of haste as MM to really get going, but models suggest that with current gear, you'll be there anyway. If you want to pursue an Aimed Shot hardcast rotation, then stacking haste may benefit you more, but the difference doesn't appear to be that huge.
Ask Mr. Robot uses Simulationcraft and FemaleDwarf along with real (and different) gear sets to model stat weights. It has determined that always reforging for haste is the best route to go with only tiny, small exceptions. I've found in my math that you generally want to reforge based on your position in the haste plateaus. If you're past a soft plateau and before a hard plateau, reforge mastery into haste. Otherwise, reforge it into crit. More on the complexities of haste plateaus can be found here.
But again, Mr. Robot, Zeherah, and I all say that the difference is incredibly small. Really, if you have any significant preference, go that way. You won't notice the difference.
Sorry mastery, we get rid of you
For all hunter specs, mastery is the lowest priority stat. Reforge out of mastery whenever you can.
I know that a lot of hunters don't like this advice, and it strikes them as somehow counterintuitive -- particularly BM and SV hunters.The BM hunters say, "But mastery increases my pet's DPS, and I get a ton of my DPS from my pet!" The SV hunters say, "But mastery increases all my magical damage, and almost all of my damage is magical."
These are true statements, certainly. Mastery absolutely increases your damage. Mastery is good. The other secondary stats are better, is all. Take a look at crit, for example:
As BM, you can expect to get somewhere around 45-50% of your damage from your pet. Your mastery boosts that damage by 1.7% per point. On the other hand, your crit boosts that damage by about 1% per 1% crit, as well as all of the damage of your shots, as well as comboing with abilities like Killing Streak. It's just better. Every model agrees here.
As SV, your mastery boosts all your magical damage by 1% per point of mastery. This includes every shot except for Auto-Shot and Kill Shot. Crit, on the other hand, increases that damage by about 1% on average for every 1% of crit, plus your Auto-Shot and Kill Shot, plus all your pet attacks, and plus comboing with crit-based talents like Toxicology. Crit's just better. Every model agrees.
It's also worth noting that crit does not have diminishing returns, in the sense that every 1% crit will continue to net you the same amount of DPS, though the percentage gain decreases as your crit increases. But of course, mastery works exactly the same way. And we have no realistic chance of ever hitting the hunter crit cap.
That said, the difference between mastery and crit or haste is still not very large. One of the big changes with our stats in Cataclysm is the huge boost that agility got in DPS contribution. The effect of inflating agility so much means that the difference between the secondary stats is relatively smaller. And in a way, this is a good thing; this helps to make higher ilevel gear almost always superior to the lower ilevel gear, even if it doesn't have the secondary stats that we value most -- because the value of and difference between secondary stats is minimal in comparison to the mighty agility.
The reforging recap
If you want to optimize your reforging, first reforge mastery away to reach the hit cap, and dip into crit or haste if you have to. An online tool like Ask Mr. Robot is very useful in determining the optimal way to just hit that 961 hit cap.
Once you're at the cap, reforge any mastery left over into either haste or crit. Take your pick on which you want. If you're convinced one is better, then go for it. If you're hardcasting Aimed Shot, go for haste. If you're not or are BM or SV, then you really won't see the difference.
If you need those last few thousand DPS to top the meters, I'm sorry, but reforging is not going to get you there. As we discussed in the DPS value of skill, missing just a single shot or two in your rotation will cost your more DPS than your reforging between crit or haste.
When reforging you can listen to Mr. Robot, listen to me, or listen to FemaleDwarf; whichever way you go, you'll be doing just fine.
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Samuel Aug 18th 2011 1:09PM
For MM, it seems to me that the proper amount of haste is what you need to make this true:
Chimera shot cooldown = (time needed for 4 steady shots) + (time needed for enough other shots to burn your focus).
The problem is I never see it analyzed that way, and I'm too damn lazy to crunch the numbers myself.
kingoomieiii Aug 18th 2011 1:31PM
Frostheim has an article up on exactly this.
http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2011/03/mm-hunter-rotation-haste-plateaus/
Love the site!
Brad Aug 18th 2011 1:44PM
@kingoomieiii Unfortunately Frosts calculations in that article are flawed. First the article only did calculations with 2/3 pathing. Secondly, the shot recommendation used as the basis for the MM hard plateau 2 is horrendously focus negative.
@Samuel Whytefyst over at the hunter section of Elitist Jerks does analyze it that way and he posts is accurate findings in the Marksman thread.
FYI the amount of haste you want to fire 5 steady shots and 2 arcane shots in between Chimera shots without the T-11 4-piece, without the Chimera glyph and with 3/3 pathing is 1235.
Samuel Aug 18th 2011 3:25PM
5 steady shots? I always fire four between chimera shots. 2 sets of two to keep the haste bonus up.
SR Aug 18th 2011 3:46PM
Since the haste buff lasts long enough to weave in shots, it's not always necessary to cast 2 SS in a row 100% of the time. Doing that might result in skipping out on a GCD that you could've either used Chimera Shot or Aimed Shot proc.
Martin Aug 18th 2011 4:42PM
I agree with SR. If you're sticking to a hard and fast 5 steady shots then I bet you're a couple seconds off using Chimera Shot on CD or letting an Aimed Shot! proc linger.
In my opinion if you have Aimed Shot! proc'd and you're doing any steady shots before using it, that's potentially wasted DPS (the exception being if Improved SS is going to drop if you don't). Same thing goes with letting Chimera Shot sit off CD for too long.
Brad Aug 18th 2011 1:33PM
There's a better rule to follow Frost and it is to make sure every piece of gear has crit on it. Then take the remaining pieces of gear you have (ones that already have crit on them) and reach the hit cap with those.
The easiest way to do this is to use wowreforge.com. Wowreforge is a simple to use reforging calculator. The calculator already knows what our hit cap is and if you know what your haste plateau is you can input that as well. It will then calculate everything and give you the best result.
Matt Aug 18th 2011 4:19PM
If you really want to optimize, I focus on squeezing as much Crit (or Haste) out of my gear as I can, while ALSO remaining hit capped. Here is the method I use:
1) reforge EVERYTHING YOU CAN into Crit (or Haste, whichever you've decided is "best").
2a) having done this, you will likely be below the hit cap. The next step is to reforge as much Mastery as you can into hit.
2b) If you're STILL below the hit cap, then reforge as much haste (or crit, whichever you decided was "second best") into hit as you need to reach the cap.
2c) This should usually be more than enough to help you get hit capped. If, however, you still can't, then you're forced to start turning some of that crit into hit.
3) Once you're hit capped, the last step is to turn any remaining mastery into either Crit or Haste if you can.
If you want to try and also get as close to the hit cap as possible, there's some extra tweaking that needs to go on, but it's largely impossible to spell out at that point. Just do your best to adhere to the above set of steps while also reforging numbers that will get you as close to that 8% as possible.
Forward Aug 18th 2011 1:46PM
I returned to my hunter recently that's been languishing at 82 for months and went this route after studying posts on elitist jerks and Hunters union and it's absolutely solid. My hunters pretty much as geared as I can get it outside of raiding as i've not had a chance to take her in yet but working the proper survival priority and capping hit while reforging out of mastery wherever possible has given me more than acceptable numbers. I'm crunching what I can do with my Mage and i've not really fine-tuned it yet or got the raiding epics to really boost it up.
iceveiled Aug 18th 2011 1:52PM
This article confirms I've been reforging correctly, so thanks Frost!
Don't overcomplicate it folks. As frost said, min/maxing your reforging isn't going to suddenly make you do thousands of more dps. That's what practice, experience, cooldown management/stacking and training dummies are for.
Thiron Aug 18th 2011 2:02PM
Personally, I just reforge to be around hit cap - since I use Fluid Death, it means reforging FROM hit.
The difference from other reforges is so small, I don't bother with it. Even with mastery. Although, I kinda like crit-heavy BM, so I might do it.
Jacques Aug 18th 2011 2:22PM
Another tool that can really help with reforging to get just exactly where you want to be with respect to various caps / plateaus is the reforgenator addon. One click and it'll show you what to reforge to what right in game, and give you the ability to drag items from that window into the reforging window.
Matheus314 Aug 18th 2011 2:53PM
As a player that lives far away from a server (I'm brazilian) and with a crappy internet connection, my latency is (at average) around 300~400 ms. This made me feel that the more haste i get on my shots makes them harder to be shoot at the perfect timing, rising the value of slower, high damage, shots over quick shots. So I always reforge all my haste into crit and mastery whenever I can (after the hit cap, of course).
This raised my DPS in about 10% at the first time I made it.
machungoloa Aug 18th 2011 2:56PM
Reforge Lite (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/reforgelite.aspx) does everything for you with a few button clicks.
I've run it then logged out and checked AskMrRobot. AMR tells me I'm optimized. It's very niiiiice.
stanek.luky Aug 18th 2011 4:04PM
hmm, it says haste and crit is better than mastery, but it doesnt say exactly why? .)
cuz i think for mm its good to hit first haste cap around those 428 haste and then reforge to mastery ? :)
Micaello Aug 18th 2011 4:01PM
Hmmm, I am interested in why MrRobot says me to enchant my Flamewaker's Gloves with Mastery and not with Haste (as I did all the time) =-/
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/drak'thul/micaello#v1
Boobah Aug 18th 2011 6:36PM
Because while haste is better than mastery, it's not 30% better than mastery. You can only get +50 Haste while Greater Mastery gets you +65.
jrb Aug 19th 2011 3:45AM
following mr robot for me reduced my dps on dummies, and in fights. dont swear by it as the holy bible. If you need haste to reach some form of cap (e.g. getting more haste than crit to have hungerer proc haste) then use the haste enchant over the mastery one.
revulva Aug 19th 2011 9:42AM
Once again, we would really appreciate it if you provided us with your example where Mr. Robot lowered your DPS. The website is very customizable and easily updated if there is a problem with the optimizations. We need examples where it is not performing as intended, though! Obviously the examples we have tested all work well, or it wouldn't be set up the way it is.
tordenflesk Aug 18th 2011 5:36PM
http://reforgecalc.de/
That is all.