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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBreakfast Topic: Did changing factions change how you play?
by Matthew Rossi 
Aug 19th 2011 at 8:00AM
Ironically, although I was somewhat negatively inclined towards Garrosh Hellscream, it wasn't until I switched factions on my main to play Horde with a new guild (and an excellent one, to be sure) that I started really, really hating the Horde. Every quest I've gotten so far on my main or my two leveling alts Hordeside has involved murdering people and stealing their land simply because I could (or because a guy using an axe I outgrew 15 levels ago says I should).
But it's done more than make me dislike the faction I'm playing. Paradoxically, it's made me fight really, really hard for that faction. I PVP a lot more now than I ever did when I was playing a worgen personally offended by what happened to Gilneas. For some reason, being in the Horde makes the semi-military feel of battleground PVP seem more like it has a point to me, as if I'd expect to find myself there. I'm more aggressive as a Horde player. My paladin has run through Desolace and now Feralas with abandon, thinking nothing of doing quests that massacre entire Alliance settlements for the crime of trying to continue to exist. For all that I often decry the Horde and its current Warchief, I'm certainly also part of the problem, because I'm the one doing the quests. I am the unprovoked fist of the Horde, crushing innocents and stealing their homes. Granted, I'm not known for my stability, but I have to wonder if anyone else has experienced this.
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 6)
troy_stoltz Aug 19th 2011 9:39AM
Alliance is the good guys. Horde is the bad guys. Where have you people been? FOR THE ALLIANCE!!
MattKrotzer Aug 19th 2011 10:09AM
I'll upvote this, because otherwise, it'll be buried.
raingod Aug 19th 2011 10:15AM
As it should be.
Hurbster Aug 19th 2011 1:29PM
Nah, he's pretty much right. Not so much before Cata but after it the Horde are pretty much just bastards.
teejmorrison Aug 19th 2011 9:44AM
This article may explain why its so slow to level using PvP as an alliance lol
Telwar Aug 19th 2011 9:53AM
I've been playing my goblin warlock* and trying to level through PvP, and finding that people on both sides are just as juvenile, immature, and hateful. Hell, I never got random insulting tells from Alliance players on my Alliance toons, and I've gotten those out of the blue on my goblock from Horde players.
Sinthar Aug 19th 2011 10:08AM
Yep I quite agree mate- both sides are about as mature as a 3 year old having a temper tantrum.
robsmith77 Aug 19th 2011 9:57AM
No, the motivations and history of each faction has never been important to me when playing WoW. I just can't get angry/emotional/involved with anything that one faction may have done to the other.
Shoryl's comments above are a good indication of what I'm trying to say:
"The Alliance is losing *everywhere* (except maybe Southern Barrens). Ashenvale, Stonetalon, Gilneas, SOUTHSHORE!"
I'm like, well so what? Alliance simply happens to be the faction that my main character belongs to, I don't personally feel any injustice as to what the Horde has done, or is doing, and it's the same when I'm on my Horde characters.
Sinthar Aug 19th 2011 10:07AM
Horde were the underdogs?
From what I understood was they left their homeworld after being persuaded that there were rich pickings in Azeroth. They came in and instantly started invading lands, to occupy and destroy their opponents. Never were they considered to be peaceful, nor underdogs. They left a trail of wanton destruction, to weaken their foes - the alliance.
OFC this is from the alliances point of view. Im sure that the horde think of themselves (and probably with some justification) as the poor outcasts. But if you think of it, if alliance were all namby pamby do gooders, then why did the horde start a war cos they were poor and homeless. The alliance being do gooders the horder portray would have fed and homed them in that case.
This is all Blizz's fault really - as they tell one bit of the storey to one side, and another to the other side. Im sure that their talents would be greatly in demand during say - a war - where propagander would be valuble.
Oh yes I do expect the 'horde 4 life'ers to vote me black, and various vehenement answers.
Mitawa Aug 19th 2011 10:24AM
The problem is that there are two different Hordes.
You're talking about the Old Horde. The demon-controlled Horde that swept in from outland was Bad. Yes.
...And then they were put into internment camps, nearly became extinct, and Thrall came riding up out of nowhere and rescued them from themselves.
The New Horde is what players are in. The New Horde came to Kalimdor, were freed from demon influence, and returned to their shamanic roots with help from the Tauren. The New Horde are underdogs, endlessly persued and persecuted; living in inhospitable territory and trying to eke out a new way of life.
Garrosh's Horde is different yet, but at least we now have a clear distinction between "The Horde" and what came through the Dark Portal, yes?
fudge Aug 19th 2011 10:37AM
The problem with that is, that there hasn't been enough time between the new Horde and the old Horde. Even in the third war did the Orcs slay the demigod protector of the Night Elves while chopping down their sacred forest.
And it's not like the first and second war are a thing of the distant past, many of the villains of the old Horde are valued members of the new Horde as well. They even named their capital city after one of the biggest butcher.
As long as there is no clear break, no atonement, no apology for the atrocities of the past, it's hard to see the new Horde as all that different from the old.
Murdertime Aug 19th 2011 10:58AM
Now, there's a lot of things the new Horde has done that you can hold up as crimes. But the natural end result of the time the Night Elves jumped Grom Hellscream completely out of the blue and then when that didn't work set a God on them probably isn't one of them.
I think Cenarius doesn't bring it up in game because everyone involved is trying to pretend it didn't happen.
Daniel Whitcomb Aug 19th 2011 11:06AM
If the "New Horde" is trying to distance itself from the Old Horde, they're doing a pretty crappy job of it, what with revering many of its chief generals as heroes and naming capital cities, landmarks, and outposts after them all over Azeroth.
Also, committing all those atrocities.
mingdi9 Aug 19th 2011 11:15AM
Actually, it is kind of interesting looking at the difference between Thrall's Horde and Garrosh's Horde, which is primarily in their opinion of the Alliance.
Let's use Mitawa's post as a starting point, with the New Horde having settled down in inhospitable territory and built new cities only a couple of years prior. When this Horde, primarily the orcs in it, interacts with the Alliance, the human attitude is much like Sinthar described: "You Horde are barely civilized savage murderers that invaded and killed us without reason or warning!"
Thrall's attitude is basically "They're right. It may not have been us, specifically, but we still need to make up for the crimes of our people and prove to them that we have changed." So even if the Horde needs resources, as they did pre-Cataclysm, Thrall wants his people to suffer through it because the alternative would be to go to war with the Alliance, and Thrall doesn't want that because he wants peace with the Alliance and the orcs, as the Old Horde, have already done much harm to the humans. This attitude basically sends two messages to his people: that they need to suffer penitence to prove themselves to the Alliance, and that they shouldn't take pride in being orcs, because, just by being an orc, they share responsibility for the crimes of the Old Horde.
A large part of the reason Thrall is so concerned with the Alliance here is because he really wants to make peace with humans and the Alliance. However, Garrosh doesn't see any benefit the Horde would gain from peace with the Alliance that they wouldn't get from war with the Alliance - in fact, trying for peace is already causing the orcs to suffer from trying to prove to the Alliance that they have changed. And since Garrosh sees no point in making peace with the Alliance, he sees also no point in any suffering the orcs are going through for the sake of the Alliance, and therefore is also telling the orcs that they don't have to be ashamed of being orcs. Yes, the Old Horde did terrible things, but they aren't the Old Horde; they don't need to pay just for being born an orc.
This is where Garrosh's popularity as a leader (as opposed to a warrior) comes from; not only does he say the Horde doesn't have to suffer from lack of resources anymore, he also says that they can take pride in being orcs again.
Here's a speech Overlord Krom'gar gives to his soldiers in Stonetalon occasionally, and while Krom'gar turned out to be the worst kind of orc, I think it's interesting to see why he respects Garrosh and what, precisely, he evokes to try to rouse up his soldiers:
Overlord Krom'gar says: Grunts, ATTENTION!
Overlord Krom'gar says: I am perplexed. Troubled by what I witness...
Overlord Krom'gar says: How has our revered Warchief failed you?
Overlord Krom'gar says: Your families no longer starve.
Overlord Krom'gar says: Your loved ones live with shelter over their heads.
Overlord Krom'gar says: You may walk through the streets of Orgrimmar with pride!
Overlord Krom'gar says: We are the new Horde, and under Warchief Hellscream, we are masters of our own destinies.
Overlord Krom'gar says: WHY THEN, have we failed to take Stonetalon Mountains?
Overlord Krom'gar says: How have the Alliance been able to halt the great Horde war machine?
Overlord Krom'gar says: From this day forth, failure is no longer an option.
Overlord Krom'gar says: Under Hellscream's watchful guise, live or die, we take Stonetalon.
Overlord Krom'gar says: Do not falter, for Hellscream's eyes are upon you all!
Luotian Aug 19th 2011 11:28AM
@mingdi9
10000x yes! What I dislike about Thrall, always have, is his view that the orcs have to pay for what their parents did. He's got human envy, really. But there is nothing wrong with being born where you are and trying to make things better. You shouldn't have to pay for it.
Which is why I defend Garrosh tooth and nail, even if the boy makes it difficult for me. Because he at least has pride. He cares about his people enough that children starving to death when there is a forest just over there seems horrible to him, instead of somehow justified for crimes those children had no part in.
I started Alliance, but the more I learned about the leaders the more I disliked it. With the exception of Varian, who I love for his flaws, they all seemed wishy-washy and lacked any real sense of pride for their people. They didn't seem to even *care*. I switched to Horde to see what the blood elves I was always so hard on were like, and only looked back long enough to roll a dwarf shaman for the lolz.
Murdertime Aug 19th 2011 11:38AM
@Midig
Yes.
And I think Garrosh can do take the position he does because when other people bring up the old horde, he can honestly say that no, he didn't have a part in it. He's not demon tainted, he wasn't involved in the old Horde war machine as he was a toddler with the plague trying to avoid having his skull smashed in by Ogres and Broken. If anything, the existence of the old horde screwed him over.
He's not peacable, but he is free from the metaphorical original sin and thus he's in a position to wonder why he and his people should still be atoning for the sins of their fathers and grandfathers.
mingdi9 Aug 19th 2011 12:03PM
Actually, let's not forget that Thrall himself also has nothing to do with the Old Horde. The only difference is that Thrall's green skin recalls the taint of the demon blood, while Garrosh's brown Mag'har skin does not.
Thrall thinks that he still has to pay for the crimes of the Old Horde, even if he didn't have anything to do with it. Actually, looking at his 4.2 questline and Twilight of the Aspects, it's possible that Thrall just has a habit of overburdening himself and considering himself responsible for everything.
ShadowPriest Aug 20th 2011 11:13AM
Meet the new horde, same as the old Horde.
......Won't get fooled again.
Halvan Aug 19th 2011 10:00AM
I'm an Alliance for Life kind of player. I started as Alliance and that's where my friends are. I never take my Horde alts seriously, but the ones I have played to 85 have made me feel a little of the Horde mentality while playing them. I still don't like the Horde, but it is pretty fun to play while not raiding on my Alliance mains.
raingod Aug 19th 2011 10:17AM
Tried playing Alliance several times but they just plain suck.