Shifting Perspectives: Comparing T12 boomkin gear against T11
Every week, WoW Insider brings you Shifting Perspectives for cat , bear , restoration and balance druids. Balance news comes at you every Friday -- learn how to master the forces of nature, and know what it means to be a giant laser turkey! Send questions, comments, or something you'd like to see to tyler@wowinsider.com.
Last week, I allowed the unthinkable to happen: I allowed myself to be out-DPSed by an elemental shaman. It was a terrible day, one from which I don't think I shall ever recover. It happened the day that I had finally gotten my new, shiny four-piece bonus. I was eager to try it out, estatic that I finally got myself out of that god-awful dress. Then something just fell through. This week was more of a redemption, but I will still never forget losing out that one time. If anything good did come of it, at least you could say that it got me thinking.
Upgrading from tier 11 to tier 12 should be a pretty big deal. The set has more and better itemization, the set bonuses are pretty spectacular -- so what could possibly be the issue? This week, we'll be talking about how tier 12 is great but not the bundle of roses that you might think it is. Depending on the encounter in question, which tier is actually better can change on you. Given that, should you ever go back to your old tier 11?
T12 bonuses
First we'll look at the tier 12 bonus itself -- both of them. The two-piece bonus, which allows you to summon up a fiery treant from casting Wrath or Starfire, is a lot better now than when it was first released. The original AI for the treants was beyond buggy; it was flat-out broken. Half the time, they would do nothing. They wouldn't chain cast their spells at all; you were lucky if you got half their potential casts off from every summon. If it wasn't for the old four-piece being completely gutted, it hardly would have been worth using at all. A later hotfix changed most of that. The treants aren't perfect, but they are miles ahead of where they used to be.
Suffice it to say that the current two-piece bonus is worth taking over the old four-piece by a long shot. Although it is the raw DPS of the T12 bonus that's better than T11, the main balancing act comes from how they both function. Both are systems that rely upon following the normal Eclipse rotation. If you're out AOEing in Solar, then you aren't switching Eclipse procs, making the T11 bonus useless -- but you also aren't casting Wrath or Starfire, making the T12 bonus useless. Since both bonuses are useless in roughly the same situations, they balance each other out.
The T12 four-piece bonus is not quite as lucky. The bonus increases the amount of Eclipse energy that is generated by Wrath and Starfire while outside of Eclipse. Essentially, this bonus results in needing one less cast in order to reach your next Eclipse proc. Without the bonus, it will take a maximum of five Starfire casts to reach a Solar Eclipse; with the bonus, it only takes four. No matter how you tweak the Energy via Starsurge casts, it will always end up with the same reduction.
Reducing the amount of casts required to reach an Eclipse has a rather strange impact on our DPS. What it does is change three different areas of our rotation. First, it alters the balance of Eclipsed spells to non-Eclipsed spells. Balance druids are balanced upon the notion that you will always have X number of Eclipsed Wraths followed by Y number of non-Eclipsed Wraths. This number cannot change outside of a Euphoria procs; you will always have the same amount of casts. By reducing the number of casts outside of Eclipse, the system shifts more toward the side of Eclipsed spells, allowing for a higher percentage of them in the rotation.
Look at it this way. Ignoring Starsurge, it would take five Starfires to leave a Lunar Eclipse plus an additional five Starfires to reach a Solar Eclipse, making it a 1:1 ratio of Eclipsed casts to non-Eclipsed casts. With this bonus, you would still take five Starfires to end Eclipse, but it would now only take four to reach the next proc. The ratio now changes to 1.25:1.
Increasing the ratio of Eclipsed casts to non-Eclipsed casts, however, is a fairly trivial affair. Overall, the impact that it is going to have on your rotation isn't all that stellar; instead, it is the other two principles that are far more impressive. Balance druids operate on a very strict rotation; within that rotation are our DOTs. We want our DOTs to be up 100% of the time, but we also want for those DOTs to be Eclipsed 100% of the time. The shorter the time between each Eclipse, then the less often we have to refresh our DOTs. Our DOTs only last for 18 seconds, give or take a second due to haste, so you have to reach the next Eclipse within that timeframe, which normally can only be achieved by additional haste. In reducing the number of casts needed to reach Eclipse, it helps to boost our uptime -- or rather, it helps to reduce the number of times we have to overwrite our DOTs.
Last but not least is Nature's Grace. Many balance druids seem to forget this keystone talent is still there. Every time that you hit an Eclipse, Nature's Grace is reset and you are allowed to proc it once again. That's 15 seconds of 15% haste every single Eclipse. Now, outside of a Bloodlust, you really aren't going to hit a time where you'll have 100% uptime on Nature's Grace, but this is a part of why haste is so important to us. More haste means more haste. The faster you transition from Eclipse to Eclipse, the higher the uptime on Nature's Grace, which in turn gives you more haste. The T12 four-piece bonus has a really good impact on the uptime of Nature's Grace. It doesn't add in any raw haste, but the effect of needing one less cast per rotation is the same.
Issues with T12 and T11
The problem that we see is that both of the T12 bonuses rely on a single thing, or rather two things: Wrath and Starfire. Both of the bonuses only effect these two spells, so any time that you aren't casting them, you aren't benefiting from them. Normally, that wouldn't be much of an issue. You want to be casting these spells as much as you possibly can anyway -- but there is one little snag. Balance druids don't always follow their standard rotation. During AOE phases, we don't cast Wrath or Starfire; we stand around casting Sunfire, Insect Swarm, and Wild Mushroom instead.
Further, when preparing for an AOE phase, we'll be casting the "wrong" spell, generally Starfire, while sitting in a Solar Eclipse. This isn't bad in the sense that it's wrong, but this does prevent you from benefiting from the T12 four-piece, which is a rather significant loss to its usefulness. If you aren't going to be going through a normal rotation for half the encounter, you aren't going to be gaining anything form having four-piece T12 during that time, so what's the point of using it? Normally, it would be a non-issue. Not gaining the most out of a set bonus isn't anything new to any class, yet we hit something of a snag.
T11's two-piece bonus increases the critical strike chance of Moonfire and Insect Swarm by 5%, which is really awesome when you're multi-DOTing like crazy. In fact, it is so awesome that using T11 for AOE is actually a rather significant DPS increase over using T12. When you consider that you multi-DOT for four of the seven encounters within Firelands, it can be a little tough to support why you should even be using T12 for a majority of the current content.
As an example, for phase 1 of Beth'tilac, I never leave Solar Eclipse, ever. Phase 1 is also far longer than phase 2, which means I spend most of the fight getting absolutely nothing out of wearing T12. On the other hand, I would actually gain a significant amount of DPS by wearing T11. Most players that upgrade from T11 to T12 actually don't see any DPS increase on this encounter, and that's because you don't get one. You gain nothing from T12 and quite a lot from T11 during phase 1, which is the bulk of the encounter, more than making up for the ilevel difference.
This is the huge flaw in set design that balance druids actually face right now. T11 is far better for AOE than T12, yet T12 is miles ahead when you actually have to follow a rotation. In many cases, the DPS difference from upgrading to T12 is totally drowned out by the fact that you no longer have the bonus from T11 and you're gaining nothing from the newest four-piece. It's rather sad that druids can upgrade their gear and yet end up not seeing any change in their damage potential.
The end result
All of that being said, there is still no reason that we should be using T11 over T12. Despite the fact that T11 can offer higher DPS in multiple situations, T12 offers more DPS in the situation that it most counts -- against the boss. Phase 1 of Beth'tilac is relatively easy; your damage potential isn't going to matter so much that losing what part of it that you do doesn't really matter. Further, the chances of wiping on Phase 1 are relatively low and won't be due to missing out on a 5% crit chance on your DOTs. The most significant part of the encounter is phase 2, when you have to kill Beth'tilac as quickly as you can before she overwhelms the raid and kills you all. In that situation, T12 far outshines T11, and that's the only part of the fight that really matters.
This same principle is repeated over and over for every single other boss encounter. There is only one boss encounter that you might be able to make a case for wearing T11, and that would be Lord Rhyolith, purely because his health is so unnaturally low that his falls over before Bloodlust even drops.
Conflicting with ourselves
While the battle between T11 and T12 might be slightly one-sided, it shows a huge flaw in balance druid design. We are at war with ourselves just as much as we are with our rotation. We want to follow Eclipse. We want to push that little meter back and forth as much as we possibly can. Yet there is still a significant amount of time when we simply don't -- we can't. Propping balance druids up via Wrath or Starfire is only a fraction of our damage; the other part of the time, we totally ignore those spells.
No other spec works the way that we work. No other spec has so much planning and effort and alterations to their rotation due to AOE. A hunter may pull energy, but for how long? 10 seconds max? We have to think of our rotation up to 20 seconds ahead of time. If I break Solar now, do I have time to get back? What if I have to move from something?
The best solution would be for Blizzard to fix this horrible flaw that we've been dealing with for the entire expansion, but the short-term fix is that the itemization team needs to understand us as well. The T12 set bonuses show it all rather clear. They understand our rotation, they understand the principles of how we work, but they don't actually understand how it operates in reality. Blizzard seems far too stuck in its theory of how it wants Eclipse to work and not spending enough time actually watching balance druids and seeing how it works in the game.
Every week, Shifting Perspectives: Balance brings you druidic truth, beauty and insight ... from a moonkin's perspective. We'll help you level your brand new balance druid, tweak your UI and your endgame gear, analyze balance racials and abilities, and even walk you through PVP as a balance druid.
Last week, I allowed the unthinkable to happen: I allowed myself to be out-DPSed by an elemental shaman. It was a terrible day, one from which I don't think I shall ever recover. It happened the day that I had finally gotten my new, shiny four-piece bonus. I was eager to try it out, estatic that I finally got myself out of that god-awful dress. Then something just fell through. This week was more of a redemption, but I will still never forget losing out that one time. If anything good did come of it, at least you could say that it got me thinking.
Upgrading from tier 11 to tier 12 should be a pretty big deal. The set has more and better itemization, the set bonuses are pretty spectacular -- so what could possibly be the issue? This week, we'll be talking about how tier 12 is great but not the bundle of roses that you might think it is. Depending on the encounter in question, which tier is actually better can change on you. Given that, should you ever go back to your old tier 11?
T12 bonuses
First we'll look at the tier 12 bonus itself -- both of them. The two-piece bonus, which allows you to summon up a fiery treant from casting Wrath or Starfire, is a lot better now than when it was first released. The original AI for the treants was beyond buggy; it was flat-out broken. Half the time, they would do nothing. They wouldn't chain cast their spells at all; you were lucky if you got half their potential casts off from every summon. If it wasn't for the old four-piece being completely gutted, it hardly would have been worth using at all. A later hotfix changed most of that. The treants aren't perfect, but they are miles ahead of where they used to be.
Suffice it to say that the current two-piece bonus is worth taking over the old four-piece by a long shot. Although it is the raw DPS of the T12 bonus that's better than T11, the main balancing act comes from how they both function. Both are systems that rely upon following the normal Eclipse rotation. If you're out AOEing in Solar, then you aren't switching Eclipse procs, making the T11 bonus useless -- but you also aren't casting Wrath or Starfire, making the T12 bonus useless. Since both bonuses are useless in roughly the same situations, they balance each other out.
The T12 four-piece bonus is not quite as lucky. The bonus increases the amount of Eclipse energy that is generated by Wrath and Starfire while outside of Eclipse. Essentially, this bonus results in needing one less cast in order to reach your next Eclipse proc. Without the bonus, it will take a maximum of five Starfire casts to reach a Solar Eclipse; with the bonus, it only takes four. No matter how you tweak the Energy via Starsurge casts, it will always end up with the same reduction.

Look at it this way. Ignoring Starsurge, it would take five Starfires to leave a Lunar Eclipse plus an additional five Starfires to reach a Solar Eclipse, making it a 1:1 ratio of Eclipsed casts to non-Eclipsed casts. With this bonus, you would still take five Starfires to end Eclipse, but it would now only take four to reach the next proc. The ratio now changes to 1.25:1.
Increasing the ratio of Eclipsed casts to non-Eclipsed casts, however, is a fairly trivial affair. Overall, the impact that it is going to have on your rotation isn't all that stellar; instead, it is the other two principles that are far more impressive. Balance druids operate on a very strict rotation; within that rotation are our DOTs. We want our DOTs to be up 100% of the time, but we also want for those DOTs to be Eclipsed 100% of the time. The shorter the time between each Eclipse, then the less often we have to refresh our DOTs. Our DOTs only last for 18 seconds, give or take a second due to haste, so you have to reach the next Eclipse within that timeframe, which normally can only be achieved by additional haste. In reducing the number of casts needed to reach Eclipse, it helps to boost our uptime -- or rather, it helps to reduce the number of times we have to overwrite our DOTs.
Last but not least is Nature's Grace. Many balance druids seem to forget this keystone talent is still there. Every time that you hit an Eclipse, Nature's Grace is reset and you are allowed to proc it once again. That's 15 seconds of 15% haste every single Eclipse. Now, outside of a Bloodlust, you really aren't going to hit a time where you'll have 100% uptime on Nature's Grace, but this is a part of why haste is so important to us. More haste means more haste. The faster you transition from Eclipse to Eclipse, the higher the uptime on Nature's Grace, which in turn gives you more haste. The T12 four-piece bonus has a really good impact on the uptime of Nature's Grace. It doesn't add in any raw haste, but the effect of needing one less cast per rotation is the same.

Issues with T12 and T11
The problem that we see is that both of the T12 bonuses rely on a single thing, or rather two things: Wrath and Starfire. Both of the bonuses only effect these two spells, so any time that you aren't casting them, you aren't benefiting from them. Normally, that wouldn't be much of an issue. You want to be casting these spells as much as you possibly can anyway -- but there is one little snag. Balance druids don't always follow their standard rotation. During AOE phases, we don't cast Wrath or Starfire; we stand around casting Sunfire, Insect Swarm, and Wild Mushroom instead.
Further, when preparing for an AOE phase, we'll be casting the "wrong" spell, generally Starfire, while sitting in a Solar Eclipse. This isn't bad in the sense that it's wrong, but this does prevent you from benefiting from the T12 four-piece, which is a rather significant loss to its usefulness. If you aren't going to be going through a normal rotation for half the encounter, you aren't going to be gaining anything form having four-piece T12 during that time, so what's the point of using it? Normally, it would be a non-issue. Not gaining the most out of a set bonus isn't anything new to any class, yet we hit something of a snag.
T11's two-piece bonus increases the critical strike chance of Moonfire and Insect Swarm by 5%, which is really awesome when you're multi-DOTing like crazy. In fact, it is so awesome that using T11 for AOE is actually a rather significant DPS increase over using T12. When you consider that you multi-DOT for four of the seven encounters within Firelands, it can be a little tough to support why you should even be using T12 for a majority of the current content.
As an example, for phase 1 of Beth'tilac, I never leave Solar Eclipse, ever. Phase 1 is also far longer than phase 2, which means I spend most of the fight getting absolutely nothing out of wearing T12. On the other hand, I would actually gain a significant amount of DPS by wearing T11. Most players that upgrade from T11 to T12 actually don't see any DPS increase on this encounter, and that's because you don't get one. You gain nothing from T12 and quite a lot from T11 during phase 1, which is the bulk of the encounter, more than making up for the ilevel difference.
This is the huge flaw in set design that balance druids actually face right now. T11 is far better for AOE than T12, yet T12 is miles ahead when you actually have to follow a rotation. In many cases, the DPS difference from upgrading to T12 is totally drowned out by the fact that you no longer have the bonus from T11 and you're gaining nothing from the newest four-piece. It's rather sad that druids can upgrade their gear and yet end up not seeing any change in their damage potential.

The end result
All of that being said, there is still no reason that we should be using T11 over T12. Despite the fact that T11 can offer higher DPS in multiple situations, T12 offers more DPS in the situation that it most counts -- against the boss. Phase 1 of Beth'tilac is relatively easy; your damage potential isn't going to matter so much that losing what part of it that you do doesn't really matter. Further, the chances of wiping on Phase 1 are relatively low and won't be due to missing out on a 5% crit chance on your DOTs. The most significant part of the encounter is phase 2, when you have to kill Beth'tilac as quickly as you can before she overwhelms the raid and kills you all. In that situation, T12 far outshines T11, and that's the only part of the fight that really matters.
This same principle is repeated over and over for every single other boss encounter. There is only one boss encounter that you might be able to make a case for wearing T11, and that would be Lord Rhyolith, purely because his health is so unnaturally low that his falls over before Bloodlust even drops.
Conflicting with ourselves
While the battle between T11 and T12 might be slightly one-sided, it shows a huge flaw in balance druid design. We are at war with ourselves just as much as we are with our rotation. We want to follow Eclipse. We want to push that little meter back and forth as much as we possibly can. Yet there is still a significant amount of time when we simply don't -- we can't. Propping balance druids up via Wrath or Starfire is only a fraction of our damage; the other part of the time, we totally ignore those spells.
No other spec works the way that we work. No other spec has so much planning and effort and alterations to their rotation due to AOE. A hunter may pull energy, but for how long? 10 seconds max? We have to think of our rotation up to 20 seconds ahead of time. If I break Solar now, do I have time to get back? What if I have to move from something?
The best solution would be for Blizzard to fix this horrible flaw that we've been dealing with for the entire expansion, but the short-term fix is that the itemization team needs to understand us as well. The T12 set bonuses show it all rather clear. They understand our rotation, they understand the principles of how we work, but they don't actually understand how it operates in reality. Blizzard seems far too stuck in its theory of how it wants Eclipse to work and not spending enough time actually watching balance druids and seeing how it works in the game.
Filed under: Druid, (Druid) Shifting Perspectives







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
styopa Aug 19th 2011 4:50PM
"Every week, WoW Insider brings you Shifting Perspectives for cat , bear , restoration and balance druids."
Really? Essentially 4 possible specs/article subjects.
Out of the last 30 articles:
BALANCE 13 – 43%
RESTO 4 – 13%
FERAL 11 – 37%
(and if we condense multi-part articles to single-counts)
BALANCE 13/26 – 50%
RESTO 4/26 – 15%
FERAL 7/26 – 27%
When you consider that it should be at least 33/33/33 or maybe 25/25/50, or even more biased in favor of Resto/Feral (considering what I could find of class/spec populations seemed to suggest that Boomkins were the least-chosen spec, although I doubt that’s necessarily still true now with 4.2) it seems your coverage is..out of whack.
So really it’s more like WoW Insider brings you Shifting Perspectives for Balance Druids…and perhaps Feral, but really, only about 1/6 of the time are we going to cover anything of interest to Resto. That just seems odd, considering your (apparent) reader base.
I love druids. I have 3 endgame druids, and enjoy all 3 specs. I wish SP covered them much more evenly in regards to application.
The last two pages of SP article titles:
BALANCE Shifting Perspectives: Comparing T12 boomkin gear against T11
RESTO Shifting Perspectives: Gearing a restoration druid in patch 4.2
BALANCE Shifting Perspectives: What to do once you've hit level 85 as a balance druid
BALANCE Shifting Perspectives: Murmurs' moonkin Twitter feed!
BALANCE Shifting Perspectives: Letting go of DOT-based AOE
FERAL Shifting Perspectives: Gearing a bear druid in patch 4.2
FERAL Shifting Perspectives: Feral cat strats for the Firelands, part 1
BALANCE Shifting Perspectives: How to kill Shannox as a balance druid
FERAL Shifting Perspectives: Firelands gear for the feral cat
RESTO Shifting Perspectives: Developer Q&A touches on resto druid issues
BALANCE Shifting Perspectives: How to raid as a balance druid
(All) Shifting Perspectives: The druid personality test
BALANCE Shifting Perspectives: Balance druid gearing from Firelands
RESTO Shifting Perspectives: Haste and you -- a guide to not wanting to kill yourself
BALANCE Shifting Perspectives: Patch 4.2 impressions as a balance druid
(All) Shifting Perspectives: Faction rewards for balance in 4.2
FERAL Shifting Perspectives: Analyzing patch 4.2's feral DPS changes
RESTO FERAL Shifting Perspectives: Guide to patch 4.2 for bear and tree druids
BALANCE Shifting Perspectives: Building a better AOE balance druid rotation
FERAL Shifting Perspectives: Why the tank Q&A sucked
BALANCE Shifting Perspectives: Building a better balance druid rotation -- gaming Eclipse
BALANCE Shifting Perspectives: Why there are moonkin in the world
FERAL Shifting Perspectives: Revisiting the disappearance of the bear
BALANCE Shifting Perspectives: How raid progression affects balance gearing
(All) Shifting Perspectives: Examining the tier 12 set bonuses
BALANCE Shifting Perspectives: DOT changes for balance druids
Neodarkmatter Aug 19th 2011 5:01PM
Certainly not the first time this has been brought up and probably not the last.
Tyler Caraway writes purely Moonkin articles every Friday.
Allison Robert writes Feral and Resto druid articles on Tuesdays. Allison rotates between Feral and Resto articles and then between DPS and Tank feral.
That is why there seems to be more articles about Moonkins.
Arrohon Aug 19th 2011 5:10PM
Chase Hasbrouck seems to be the kitty writer. Honestly, if you have a complaint send it to a senior editor. They control when and what articles come out. Complaining to the boomkin/warlock columnist isn't going to get you anything but downrated. Use the contact us link at the upper-right of the page or send an email.
Allison Robert Aug 19th 2011 5:24PM
@Styopa
We have dedicated columnists for both the balance and feral (cat) specs, Tyler Caraway and Chase Hasbrouck respectively, so those specs will tend to be slightly overrepresented in comparison to feral (bear) and restoration, which I rotate between. Unfortunately, I have on occasion missed weeks of coverage due to some unavoidable family issues as a caretaker for two quite elderly grandparents.
Otherwise, I try hard to make sure that the Tuesday Shifting is equally balanced between bear and restoration topics, although the column does ultimately follow whatever's most recently in the news. For the first few months after Cata went live, this meant a plurality of restoration topics; subsequently, the column's been slightly biased toward bears as the developers have turned more attention to tank mechanics.
If there's any restoration or bear topic you'd like to have me cover, just send me an email at allison@wowinsider.com.
Alaron Aug 20th 2011 10:44AM
Seeing this late...
Yes, I write the feral DPS column as a semi-permanent guest columnist. My current real life obligations means I have to take off a week here or there, so you see a new column from me every 1-2 weeks. Echoing Allison above, you can always email me at alaron@fluiddruid.net (or hit up my forums there, you'll probably get a quicker response)
TonyKP Aug 19th 2011 4:55PM
Been saying it for weeks - someone needs to print out a copy of this column every time a new one posts and staple it to the front door at Blizzard. Shifting Perspectives consistently show a much firmer grasp of how balance druids work than the developers do, and tops it off with a willingness to tell it like it is that can be lacking elsewhere on this site.
Neodarkmatter Aug 19th 2011 5:03PM
Nice writeup on the pros and cons of the tier bonuses.
Once question I have is in regard of when people are giving up their set bonuses.
Currently I am holding onto my T11 2-piece and T12 2-piece until I can replace my last 2 pieces to get my 4-piece T12 bonus.
Is this what everyone else is doing or is the benefit from the gear worth giving up the T11 2-piece bonus until I get the 4-piece T12 bonus?
Tyler Caraway Aug 19th 2011 9:14PM
There's really nothing worth giving up for 2 piece T11 except 2 piece T12, no. The bonus is really solid, particular with the amount of multi-DOTing that we do in this tier.
Now, 4 piece T11is easy to toss away; I got rid of mine within my first week because of some lucky drops.
Extaminos Aug 20th 2011 7:54AM
So Tyler, what gear will you be sporting when transmogrification goes live?
Arrohon Aug 19th 2011 5:16PM
What is the cause for the boomkin/shadow priest rivalry? I understand the warlock/mage rivalry. Also, is it more than a coincidence that you are part of both? I support both mages and shadow priests in the rivalry (mages because they are awesome while I hate warlocks. priest because of Fox while I have nothing against boomkins) but I need to have the background info to better participate.
Matthew Aug 19th 2011 5:32PM
Mage vs Warlock is to Batman vs Joker as Boomkin vs Shadow Priest is to Robin vs. the Penguin.
It's a relatively new one, with off spec rivalry for two multi-purpose classes.
Where does this leave elemental shaman? They're the ugly kid watching the fight on the sidelines.
Tyler Caraway Aug 19th 2011 9:17PM
Honestly, I'm not entirely sure -where- balance vs shadow came from. It rather spawned off my go between with Fox, but I'm not sure how the fire was fueled beyond that point. Fox and I had our spat, I attempted some witty comments that vaguely referenced him (because mentioning his name directly means I have to link to him and I'm loathe to do that) which become construed to mean I hate all shadow priests.
Recently, however, my guild has run into a dry spell of warlocks. We went form having three to four every night to sometimes not even having a single one log in. I'm in a constant battle with our shadow priest over who gets DI. It isn't pretty.
Arrohon Aug 19th 2011 9:31PM
Funny how you said that Shadow Priests should get it most of the time yet you're arguing that you should get it as a boomkin (unless you're both arguing that the other should take it which would be weird) over a Shadow Priest. tut tut tut
Gritiron Aug 20th 2011 10:11AM
I think most of SP vs Boomkin rivalry comes from warlocks actually, or Dark Intent to be specific. Pre DI-nerf there was a lot of competition to get the DI buff, with SP coming out ahead on paper (although really you want to give it to your most proficient multi-dotter).
Matthew Aug 19th 2011 5:17PM
Thats cuz Tyler Rocks the Casbah.
Siaperas Aug 19th 2011 5:42PM
I think an interesting question to ask Blizz would be: what does work and what doesn't work about the current eclipse system for druids? What would they change if they could do it all over again?
I admit that I only play balance as an alt, and I like that playing it doesn't feel like another caster. Personally, I think having to choose your spells is fun, and maximizing those spell choices feels great, but screwing up on those choices feels very punishing.
Leonix Aug 19th 2011 5:45PM
is it my imagination or blizz is blind to boomers?
abladore Aug 19th 2011 11:20PM
So the issue here is that there is a decision-making process when choosing a set of gear as opposed to blindly equipping the one with the highest item level? And the second issue is that you have to think about the fight as a whole when planning your rotation? Really?
Maybe the developers are aware of these moonkin problems... and want to move the other classes toward us, rather than move us to them.
Who knows. I'd probably be unhappier if we didn't pull amazing dos...
Borgthor Aug 19th 2011 8:15PM
This. After playing a boomkin at 85 recently, the constant articles about Eclipse (which is fair enough since that's what boomkins are about) come off as a little too negative.
Yes, it's not simple to game Eclipse, but the payoff is the best AoE in the game. That's a lot of fun for me. You don't need to add MORE to the best AoE in the game, so it's not surprising that the T12 bonuses are geared towards single target DPS. Can't we just be glad that the 4 piece gets us back to solar quicker? With all the gaming for AoE, isn't it nice that Blizzard is offering something that enhances and encourages the single target rotation?
Tyler Caraway Aug 19th 2011 9:36PM
@abladore It isn't quite that simple. To ask for gearing complexity in this day and age is ludicrous. There is only a single caster leather belt, only one caster leather wrist. There is no choice involved, there can be no choice involved. This same thing occurs with every single other spec. The only players that have any true gearing options are priests and plate tanks. A plate tank can technically take an item that's hit/exp instead of a more traditional tanking item, while priests get the benefit of cloth being the only armor class that gets two options of the same variety and can make use of them -- spirit cloth/non-spirit cloth.
Using this type of set up, you cannot have gearing complexity in the game. It simply isn't possible.
Gearing complexity is -not- whether you should use out-dated itemization or not. This type of design stagnates gearing for the player and it wrecks absolute havoc on a number of game systems. In fact, Blizzard knows this! The 4-piece T11 bonus was nerfed to uselessness because it was better to keep using Heroic 4T11 than it was to upgrade to T12. A major issue of this is damage stagnation. Even though it yields higher DPS to use the older gear, your DPS isn't going up while other classes will. They are getting better, newer gear, you aren't because your older, weaker gear is actually better than the new stuff.
I'm not sure how better I can explain it.
@Borgthor
I'm fairly certain that the point kind of went over your head. :\
Gear is not meant to be a platform for correcting spec weakness. If you have a weak spec, using gear to correct those issues only causes more problems in the end; more so than that, it really highlights the flaws of the class's design.
Balance druids have way too strong of AOE, yet our single target prowess is barely holding it together. When you look at single target encounters, such as Baleroc, you find that balance druids, either at the top of their game or on the average, don't compare to a majority of other specs out there. To be fair, we wind up neck and neck with a few other hybrids, which isn't bad off; I'm not calling us useless by any means, but it's our ridiculous AOE that props us up on most encounters.
It's more of a matter that the core of the balance druid fights against itself. Shannox would be the best example of this. 2T11 is better than 4T12 on that encounter because of the multi-DOTing damage. In fact, the bonus from 4T12 is virtually worthless because you'll pretty much always have to cast two rounds of DOTs on every target no matter how much haste you have. 4T12 highlights our problem, but it does nothing to fix it.
The problem: we don't want to leave Eclipse. Eclipse is so much damage that we feel utterly weak without it, so much so that we do everything we can in order to avoid losing it. 4T12 helps with that, it focuses on our not wanting to be out of Eclipse and helps us reach the next Eclipse faster; that isn't good enough for us. In theory, it looks at a problem that we face and attempts to fix it, but the reality is we don't care about it. There just isn't a case were we say "Oh you should be doing this unless you have 4T12 in which case this is better." That's because the bonus just isn't enough.