Does the Rise of the Zandalari dungeon tier serve a purpose?

Patch 4.1 shook things up, and although patch 4.2 introduced a new raid, the same basic system that debuted in 4.1 is still with us. The Zandalari heroics not only dropped epic gear, they allowed non-raiders to collect twice as many valor points, a grand total of 980 valor points. It also allowed players to run heroics in a less limited fashion; you had up to seven in a week and you could run them once a day, all seven at once, or at any other rate you liked until you'd run your seven in a week's time. This was, overall, a positive change and one that allowed non-raiders to collect the tier gear available on vendors faster. Patch 4.2's change to the valor cap (reducing it to 980 in a week) meant that the Zandalari heroics could supply non-raiders with as many VPs as raiders got from raiding.
Now here we are, a couple of months into patch 4.2, and for the most part everyone's run the Zandalari heroics enough to be as fully geared as valor points make possible. Any pieces not available to non-raiders will have been picked up from the ZG/ZA loot table. I'd hazard a guess that a significant fraction of people go from leveling up straight to the Zandalari heroics, carried by justice point tier 11 epics that put them over the ilevel cap as soon as they hit 85, especially when they can also bank honor points and trade those for JPs or spend them on PVP weapons as good or better than the Zandalari items.
At this point, the Zandalari heroics are used to grind out valor points, then grind out justice points for supplemental items or heirlooms for alts. Yet the Zandalari heroics still give twice as many VPs, and when you're capped on VPs, reward twice as many JPs as the launch heroics. With the recent announcement of patch 4.3 coming with three new 5-man dungeons, we're moved to ask: Why not open up the heroics we have to more people?

Opening up the other eight heroics to the 140 VP/JP reward for completing them would basically be saying, "At this point, it's not the gear, it's the points" -- and frankly, that's exactly the case. With ilevel 365 gear available through dailies and crafting and ilevel 378 gear in the AH from Firelands farming, most players are farming up the valor pieces and items they can get and filling the holes they can't with JP purchases. With this as the case, it's simply not necessary to bestow special status on the Zandalari heroics at this point.
ZG and ZA are fine dungeons, well designed, a half-step harder than most of the heroics that came in with launch, but the gear curve is catching up to them, as it must to all things, and as a result, groups that are purely running dungeons to gear up an alt or two are subjected to a level of monotony that simply isn't in anyone's best interest. It would be far better if people whose main emphasis was running five mans could run them and get one out of 10 possible dungeons instead of one out of two.
Another difficulty here is one not everyone will agree with, but here it is: When the Cataclysm dungeons launched, their heroics were often very hard to pug. Months later, that's not the case -- so why not let groups that can finally stop and look at all that gorgeous scenery go in and do so? Dungeons like Halls of Origination, Throne of the Tides, Lost City of the Tol'vir and Vortex Pinnacle are magnificent dungeons in terms of art and layout. Their inclusion in the Rise of the Zandalari tier of reward would greatly break up what potential art and music we were going to be exposed to while farming for points.
With 4.3 a few months away, this is a change that could be made immediately and that would immediately relieve some of the tedium that is unavoidable when grinding points in the same two places over and over again. It would be as if the only BG worth running was Alterac Valley. No matter how much you like AV, you'd get sick of it eventually.
In the end, there simply appears to be no compelling reason to maintain the tier of reward difference between ZG/ZA and the rest of Cataclysm's heroics. For the benefit of everyone involved, for more reason to run these well designed, beautiful instances, and for a break from killing trolls over and over again, I can't see a downside to moving this particular content wall.
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Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Raiding
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 6)
seamus Aug 22nd 2011 1:21PM
Yeah but....the trolls dungeons are HARDER. And not just a half-step either. Any one can pug a regular heroic, but the ZA/ZG ones are meant for raiders. The mechanics around some of the fights are quite complicated, the green ooze in ZG can still insta-kill, they're just tuned to be harder and they are. I'm not sure I want them lumped in with the other heroics. If they were, I foresee a lot of "Oh, a troll? I'm outta here /dropsgroup" kind of moments in pugs.
They way it is now, if you sign up for a troll you know what you're signing up for. Could be a little rough. Greater challenge=greater rewards.
Gerbera Aug 22nd 2011 4:32PM
"I foresee a lot of "Oh, a troll? I'm outta here /dropsgroup" kind of moments in pugs."
Halls of Reflection... /sigh
But yes, while I do agree that running those 2 heroics over and over because it's unfortunately the best way to maximize weekly VP (I no longer need gear from them) is incredibly tedious, it's not accurate to just lump them in with the Cata release heroics.
The Cata release heroics have been nerfed into the ground and the trolls are considerably harder. THAT is the sole reason they are given "special" status, as the author termed it. At this time, Blizzard apparently doesn't feel that the original heroics are *worth* 140 VP, and I have to say I agree.
I'll go along with others here and guess that the new 4.3 heroics will be moved into the current troll slot, perhaps dropping 369 gear or something, and the trolls will be lowered along with considerable nerfing. Perhaps they will again remove the bear mount.
Byeble Aug 23rd 2011 12:24AM
I agree with Gerbera... though I think you mean 359 gear, not 353 gear :). Plus, if the new dungeons dropped 359 gear I would finally be able to fill my shoulder and helm slot with 359 gear and get the Cataclysmically Epic achievement :D.
vanye111 Aug 22nd 2011 5:45PM
@gerbera
Probably 373 gear, aren't the current raid drops 378?
Nick Aug 22nd 2011 1:21PM
I'm currently 5% of the way through level 84 on my mage and currently have 1400 honor points and 4000 justice points banked. I'm continuing to level via BGs until I build my honor points to 3750 (for a further 2500 jp) and then I will continue questing. I havent even finished Hyjal quests yet and this being the first toon I've played since I returned I havent seen inside firelands or the new quest area yet, so I have plenty to do at 85.
Having 6500 justice points ready to spend will certainly help by allowing me to purchase 3 items of 359 gear from the start.
Nick Aug 22nd 2011 1:24PM
and I just hit 5000 honorable kills. Yay.
PS: I started PVPing at level 81.
Mr. Crow Aug 22nd 2011 1:45PM
JP and Honor both cap out at 4000. In other words, you can't get to 6500 JP... you have to buy something first.
Xtal Aug 22nd 2011 2:04PM
He means he has 4000 JP and an extra 3750 HP which can be converted to 2500 JP. Thus amking him effectivly have 6500 JP.
Sabin Aug 22nd 2011 2:04PM
You can stok 4000 jp + 4000 honor.
Then you spend all your jp.
An buy more jp (2500 jp) using your honor.
Razzanor Aug 22nd 2011 2:06PM
Step 1: Gain 4000 justice points and 3750 honor.
Step 2: Spend at least 2500 justice points on PvE gear so that you're no longer capped.
Step 3: Convert all of your honor into justice points at a rate of 375 to 250
(3750 becomes 2500).
Step 4: Spend the remainder of your justice points on more PvE gear.
matt Aug 22nd 2011 1:21PM
Amen
Jason Aug 22nd 2011 1:21PM
Well, for one thing, the four dungeons you mentioned are easier and reward lower level loot. I highly doubt that blizzard will devote the time to making new art assets and loot tables to bring those four up to par with the Zul'Agains and I doubt they'd want to actively incite more "catering to the casuals" rhetoric by simply bumping those 4 dungeons up to awarding 140VPs each time you complete one. Additionally, I can see people quitting (or worse yet behaving like @$$-hats until they get kicked from) ZA/ZG in order to get their 140 from an easier dungeon.
I fully expect ZA & ZG to get bumped down to 70VPs for completion once the new 5-mans appear. I also expect CoT:WotA and the other two will give 140VPs in 4.3 & that they'll drop iLevel 381-ish epics since that'll be around a half tier behind T13's normal gear.
Sally Bowls Aug 22nd 2011 6:37PM
I rarely see anyone running a heroic for loot; maybe a shoulder or the staff from ZG. You run them for badges. So who would care if there was no loot? In fact, except for head/shoulder/weapon wand, not that many people even care about troll loot. Recently on my server Maelstrom crystals and Abyss crystals were both 75g. )
I recently helped a guild get to 346 on the day they hit 85; it's not that difficult any more.
Cbeefman Aug 22nd 2011 1:23PM
i agree with this tenfold
oh man am i tired of the zandalari heroics.
another point for adding them to the normal list would be an economic balance. does anyone else find it odd that heavenly shards are more expensive that maelstrom crystals?
at least on my server they are. very often you even cant find ANY heavenly shards on the AH because everyone and their uncles dog is running Zandalars, one of which even has a FREE maelstrom crystal in there.
Amanda A. Aug 22nd 2011 3:10PM
I bet we get Maelstrom Shatter in 4.3.
hairy_fedd Aug 22nd 2011 7:35PM
@Amanda A.
"I bet we get Maelstrom Shatter in 4.3."
I'd like to think Blizz would do that, but the option to auto-disenchant makes me wonder if Blizz isn't trying to prevent Enchanters from keeping a firm hold on the AH chants departmant.
This chanter hopes you're right though.
Bumblebee Aug 22nd 2011 1:22PM
Long as they keep the iLv requirements for what you can queue for, I would see this as an improvement.
Shinae Aug 22nd 2011 1:24PM
Yes, returning to the Wrath model for random heroics is the way to go.
I enjoyed ZG and ZA, but now I'm so tired of them!
trefpoid Aug 22nd 2011 2:32PM
I think the Zandalaris should never have gotten a different VP reward and be in a separate dungeon list. I mean, when the ICC 5-mans came out, we just had to deal with them when they appeared in the dungeon rotation. Sure, people left sometimes, but I finished them everytime for the loot. They were really hard at first, specially Halls of Reflection, but people did them anyway. I'm sick of Zandalaris and the whole Heavenly Shard issue makes me cry (I'm an enchanter with 50 Maelstrom Crystals and 0 Heavenly Shards, can't do much without them and each one costs 100g).. and also, they are extremely boring when u chain-run them, not so much Zul'gurub, 'cause I like that one and it goes fairly quickly usually.. but Zul'aman? oh god.. something always goes wrong there and the dungeon seems eternally long, the timer doesn't help at all. I wish they put them together so I can run the other dungeons too and have some fun again :(
JaimeRavenholdt Aug 22nd 2011 1:25PM
They're a quick and easy way to gear up alts to raid status. 4.2 would have benefited from more than two dungeons, though. At least 4?