Does the Rise of the Zandalari dungeon tier serve a purpose?

Patch 4.1 shook things up, and although patch 4.2 introduced a new raid, the same basic system that debuted in 4.1 is still with us. The Zandalari heroics not only dropped epic gear, they allowed non-raiders to collect twice as many valor points, a grand total of 980 valor points. It also allowed players to run heroics in a less limited fashion; you had up to seven in a week and you could run them once a day, all seven at once, or at any other rate you liked until you'd run your seven in a week's time. This was, overall, a positive change and one that allowed non-raiders to collect the tier gear available on vendors faster. Patch 4.2's change to the valor cap (reducing it to 980 in a week) meant that the Zandalari heroics could supply non-raiders with as many VPs as raiders got from raiding.
Now here we are, a couple of months into patch 4.2, and for the most part everyone's run the Zandalari heroics enough to be as fully geared as valor points make possible. Any pieces not available to non-raiders will have been picked up from the ZG/ZA loot table. I'd hazard a guess that a significant fraction of people go from leveling up straight to the Zandalari heroics, carried by justice point tier 11 epics that put them over the ilevel cap as soon as they hit 85, especially when they can also bank honor points and trade those for JPs or spend them on PVP weapons as good or better than the Zandalari items.
At this point, the Zandalari heroics are used to grind out valor points, then grind out justice points for supplemental items or heirlooms for alts. Yet the Zandalari heroics still give twice as many VPs, and when you're capped on VPs, reward twice as many JPs as the launch heroics. With the recent announcement of patch 4.3 coming with three new 5-man dungeons, we're moved to ask: Why not open up the heroics we have to more people?

Opening up the other eight heroics to the 140 VP/JP reward for completing them would basically be saying, "At this point, it's not the gear, it's the points" -- and frankly, that's exactly the case. With ilevel 365 gear available through dailies and crafting and ilevel 378 gear in the AH from Firelands farming, most players are farming up the valor pieces and items they can get and filling the holes they can't with JP purchases. With this as the case, it's simply not necessary to bestow special status on the Zandalari heroics at this point.
ZG and ZA are fine dungeons, well designed, a half-step harder than most of the heroics that came in with launch, but the gear curve is catching up to them, as it must to all things, and as a result, groups that are purely running dungeons to gear up an alt or two are subjected to a level of monotony that simply isn't in anyone's best interest. It would be far better if people whose main emphasis was running five mans could run them and get one out of 10 possible dungeons instead of one out of two.
Another difficulty here is one not everyone will agree with, but here it is: When the Cataclysm dungeons launched, their heroics were often very hard to pug. Months later, that's not the case -- so why not let groups that can finally stop and look at all that gorgeous scenery go in and do so? Dungeons like Halls of Origination, Throne of the Tides, Lost City of the Tol'vir and Vortex Pinnacle are magnificent dungeons in terms of art and layout. Their inclusion in the Rise of the Zandalari tier of reward would greatly break up what potential art and music we were going to be exposed to while farming for points.
With 4.3 a few months away, this is a change that could be made immediately and that would immediately relieve some of the tedium that is unavoidable when grinding points in the same two places over and over again. It would be as if the only BG worth running was Alterac Valley. No matter how much you like AV, you'd get sick of it eventually.
In the end, there simply appears to be no compelling reason to maintain the tier of reward difference between ZG/ZA and the rest of Cataclysm's heroics. For the benefit of everyone involved, for more reason to run these well designed, beautiful instances, and for a break from killing trolls over and over again, I can't see a downside to moving this particular content wall.
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Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Raiding
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Reader Comments (Page 6 of 6)
szagar Aug 22nd 2011 8:06PM
If it's just about points, then they should make heroic versions of all 68 dungeons and associated wings. They don't need to add level 85 loot to them either in light of transmogrification. Just make the mobs the appropriate level, and provide JP and VP. Have a few different Queues like "All Instances" "Cataclysm Instances" "Burning Crusade Instances" "Wrath Instances" "4.3 Instances" etc. Keep the loot tables as they are, and suddenly you have a hours of content that might as well be new because it's been skipped by most of the playerbase.
Maybe add a veto function, so that each player can veto 4 or 5 instances they never want to see. Add back in the daily lockout, and you instantly remove the tedium. Make the latest tier of instances "Harder" and "Worth More" and give an option to play those exclusively if you really want to. But also pool them into the random queue. And if the player doesn't meet the minimum item level for an instance, then the system won't choose him for a hard instance.
brain314 Aug 22nd 2011 8:42PM
I'm tired of tanking ZA/ZG for my valor. However, as a non-raider currently, it's the only way to max our my VP. And now that I've gotten my bear mount (via PUG), I'm less inclined to keep running them.
Should the troll dungeons be merged with the original 5-man cata dungeons? I say no. ZA and ZG are clearly harder and longer, and the rewards should reflect as much. Instead, Blizzard should just let you queue the originals up to 14 times for the VP reward. At the current gear level, people should be facerolling them, so it'd be a nice change from some of the planning needed for ZA/ZG.
I don't actually mind ZG so much. The mechanics are rather fun IMHO. But ZA is always stressful because most people still want to attempt the timed run for a chance at the mount.
Freddo Aug 23rd 2011 1:31AM
I miss normal mode, the troll dungeons could have had ilvl 353 gear on norm and 359 on hc or something like that.
I totally agree, merge the trolls into random rotation with the other dungeons.
Moghar Aug 23rd 2011 2:53AM
I disagree. The starter hcs are much faster and easier, and provide faster satchels of goods, and the gear there isn't half bad either. Also Blizz tends not to recycle content, because that is just not the philosophy of their game. If they do recycle something, however, they change it completely and make it fit the plot.
Eskarel Aug 23rd 2011 6:02AM
I like the tiered dungeon design. It is vastly superior to the old wrath model and offers genuine progression to non raiders. That said I do not like having such an imbalance between the tiers. The first batch of heroics has almost too many and the second batch has far too few.
I'm also not super thrilled about waiting till the raiders are ready for another tier before we get tier three heroic dungeons. I thought that maybe Blizzard was genuinely offering a path for five mans and maybe in MoP they will but not in cata.
Darkseid Aug 23rd 2011 9:15AM
Winterhawk hit on a VERY good point here that I think is being over looked by most, and completely ignored by the original article.
While doing ZG/ZA are without a doubt on 'farm' status for many, they are still a nightmare to PUG. As was mentioned in the article, after dinging 85, gaining the ilevel for Troll heroics is incredibly simple. Problem is, that gaining that ilevel doesn't mean that the player has the "real" gear they need for their spec. We call it 'cheating the system' in our house. Where you see players with 318 pieces on in Troll heroics, because they have a 346 of the same type, but wrong spec, in their bag somewhere.
So the result is that people rush to the Troll heroics as fast as possible, whether their ready or not (I've seen people who in there who don't even know what the 'skull' mark is for). And as has been discussed before, the Troll heroics brought the raid mentality to 5 mans for the first time. Meaning that one person, even a dps, making a small mistake(like killing both hatchers), could whipe the whole group.
So put together, constant ZA/ZG point runs, with the demand that everyone do EVERYTHING right or whipe, with the frustation of PUGing with people who really aren't ready to be there, and at this point I think EVERYONE is sick of the Troll heroics.
I say add the 4 lvl 85 dungeons to the higher point payout level, and give these players a chance to earn good points, while getting ready for the Troll heroics.
cagey Aug 23rd 2011 10:54AM
Some people have limited time to run dungeons. For example, I run a normal heroic most days over lunch. A few days ago I had a 5 minute queue, followed by a 14 minute Throne of Tides run. My experience with the Troll'roics has been that they often take more than an hour (including DPS queue time).
Also, I don't understand why limit yourself to running only the Troll'roics. Running 7 trolls takes longer, is less interesting, and apparently provides less useful enchanting matts than running 4 trolls and 6 regular heroics.
If Blizz does put both tiers of dungeons in the same queue I hope they are tuned so they take a more consistent length of time.
jason_1975 Aug 24th 2011 5:39PM
Funny, this hasn't been my experience as a casual raider.
I typically get at least 480+ VP from raiding a week on my toons. Thus I can run the much shorter (and easier) Cata Heroics. The que times are usually in the 8-15 minute range, vs. 20-35 minutes for a troll heroic.
While the valor is 1/2, the Cata Heroics have mostly become wrath style AoE fests, while the Troll instances are long and still somewhat "dangerous".
Honestly, I think we're just going to have to wait and see what the new 4.3 instances bring, and it may be that like Heroic TOC 5-man in wrath, the troll instances lose their place . . .
It's gonna happen eventually.