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8-25-2011 @ 6:10PM
Im still firmly of the belief that the tank shortage has nothing to do with mechanics, but simply the amount of douchebaggery that goes on in random heroics. People simply don't want to deal with it.
8-25-2011 @ 6:15PM
^ This. I enjoy tanking on my DK but won't do it outside of guild / friends anymore because everytime I do, it is a miserable experience that reminds me too much of gaming on xbox live. I don't know how blizzard can tackle the douchebags as anything they do to control, will be exploited by those same people...
8-25-2011 @ 6:20PM
A little of both. I think tanking is simple to learn, hard to master. Perhaps the new changes to tanking in 4.3 will help things along.
8-25-2011 @ 6:25PM
This! All of my tank-possibles have a tanking spec, but I only tank for all-guild or mostly-guild groups.
8-25-2011 @ 6:33PM
@ Noyou - For the record, I wasn't saying anything about the difficulty of tanking. I've watched how much our Paladin MT has to deal with on Heroic Shannox and I'm more than happy to just stand back and pew pew during that fight. I know several people that like to play a challenging role/class/spec, but part of that challenge is now dealing with arrogant, impatient, uncooperative or just plain mean group members. Pre-LFD, people who hid behind the anonymity of the Internet still had a server reputation to worry about. Now, there are no consequences whatsoever for being a raging ***hat to everyone you ever come across in your heroics. The worst that can happen is that you'll get kicked from your group and you requeue until your matched up with more people to grief and torture. The LFD is a wonderfully convenient tool, but it may also be the worst thing that ever happened to this game.
8-25-2011 @ 6:46PM
8-25-2011 @ 6:40PM
I am agreeing with you. But also the mechanics have a little to do with it as well. Like I said tanking isn't as simple as some people (mostly trolls) like to make it out to be. If it was, more people would do it. Less people would complain about it.
Agreed. I don't have much of the Valor gear because I get a PuG that's an enjoyable so infrequently. In fact, all of my VP are from raiding...I don't think I've done a single heroic since 4.3 dropped. It may be easy to get through them but I can't stand the people. I actually have a .txt that is a list of people in my battlegroup that I will refuse to run with, and why.People tend to be jerks even on runs that don't wipe a single time (which, with gear inflation, is becoming most of them). If people wouldn't be such tools, maybe I'd queue more. Less QQ = more queue queue.
8-25-2011 @ 6:50PM
DITTO.As a player with 2 tanks, working on the 3rd, I don't do randoms. It isn't normally the healer but the 3 DPS that make it untenable. Its like having two groups the tank/healer/maybe a DPS and the other DPS folks. They want you to run faster through the dungeon, then will complain that they aren't ready when a pull goes badly. Thankfully the changes to threat have helped, but I still don't do the randoms just because they aren't fun.
8-25-2011 @ 7:06PM
Amen. It's not that there's a shortage of tanks - my guild never has a problem with tanks or heals; we have a surplus of both for guild groups & raids. It's that the tanks don't want to PUG. New tanks don't want to deal with rude players calling them "n00bs" when the tanks are just learning; idiot gamers won't let the new tanks learn or make allowances for new tanks. Instead they start insulting and moaning about the "bad tank" they've got, instead of offering advice and help. Experienced tanks don't want to deal with DPS that GOGOGO or who get rude if the tank wants to do the *whole* instance instead of just run to the last boss (etc etc). Me? I'm a tank. And I refuse to PUG, period.
8-25-2011 @ 8:10PM
I love tanking. My first character was a protection paladin. I leveled it protection during the hey-days of Ulduar up until I hit like 73 and teamed up with a guildie in ret to hit 80 where I went back Prot as soon as I was defense capped. I have a prot pally, bear druid, blood DK and a prot warrior and love tanking.That said, I don't tank heroics of any kind unless I have a healer or at least one DPS who I personally know. I'm a fantastic tank according to my friends and most of the PUG raiders that I've run with but I will not deal with PUG heroics anymore. Too many times do I get jumpy DPS or just overall terrible groups with bad attitudes who criticize me for stuff they are doing wrong. I'm very liberal with my vote to kick as I won't put up with stuff. I give warnings and if they do it again, I kick them. Even then, its not enough and the little satchel isn't worth it when I already have all the stuff in it from before they made it. I'd rather queue as DPS and be a good DPS for a new or learning tank (or be liberal with my kick button and get rid of douchebag tanks) than tank myself anymore. I'm really disappointed with the community of this game and how it treats tanks on the whole because I love tanking.
8-25-2011 @ 8:26PM
Agree. I started pally tanking in Cataclysm to try something new that seemed to have a high demand. I have yet to find a five-man random group that hasn't acted like a bunch of foul-mouthed 12 year olds hopped up on energy drinks. The intolerance exhibited by DPS players makes tanking the MOST unenjoyable aspect of gaming I've ever come across. Many times worse than when I was learning to be a holy priest in BC.I hate wiping as much as the next guy, but being flamed for an hour while trying to learn the fights is no way to encourage players to tank. Maybe I should go back to my rogue and sit in queues for hours like everyone else.
8-25-2011 @ 9:39PM
I gotta admit, when Tondef said "tenable", I thought of a whale and a bowl of petunias.
8-25-2011 @ 10:31PM
I'm mostly a dps, and even I don't run pugs because of the idiots running around in them. One wipe, and people start swearing and pointing fingers at everyone but themselves. I'm more than geared for dungeons, but even I make mistakes sometimes. People, no matter how good they are, get distracted, or queue up late night, when raids have worn them down a bit.But what I think made everyone such douchebags is not only the server reputation, but also the fast dungeons of Wrath. People just wanna rush through, not caring about tactics, even now, nearly 8 months after Cata's release. I'm not saying Wrath was bad, it just made people impatient.
8-26-2011 @ 2:57AM
Agreed. Whether they are the victims or perpetrators of bad RDF behaviour, tanks simply leave groups because they know they'll have an instant queue as soon as the debuff wears off or they feel like trying again.
8-26-2011 @ 4:50AM
Totally agree, RevynnI have two tanks that I have been tanking on quite a lot, and I could turn my DK into a tank as well, was thinking about doing it, because I LOVE tanking, its my favorite role. Yet I only do tank for guild groups. I dont care about CTA, or whatever, I just dont wanna do it anymore, after having a lot of bad experiences in PUGs, starting with in Wrath.Example? One of the first PUGs I ended up in was UP, back in Wrath. 3 people from the same guild, a moonkin and me. One of the very first groups, I set markers, charged in, and see the rogue die 3 secs later. Then, it happens again on the second attempt. I see the moonkin ask "Why are you DIEING so quick?", see a "Noob tank" and then see the loading screen...kicked. So a rogue ignores my markers, attacks the wrong mob, does not use TotT at the start, nukes like a maniac, doesnt use his emergency button when he gets aggro right away,and I get kicked.Next one that came up was DTK... I held aggro fine, was really trying a good job. Then the healer startts complaining (and continues to do so for at least 10 min) how crappy my gear is. Mind you, I did watch his mana bar, and he wasnt getting low at any point. Yes, I wasnt in ICC-lvl gear yet, cuz I was there to gear up, I held aggro the whole time, marked, watched the healers mana, used my defensive CDs, and had to listen to complaints that my GS wasnt at, I dunno, ICC lvl. I could tell you many other stories like that. Of COURSE there are also good or even wonderful groups, groups where people watch their threat, do not ninja-pull, etc. However, the ratio of those became less and less encouraging. Last time I ended up in a PUG, it was in Throne Of The Tides, and when I marked healers for CC and asked for it (and I do ask politely), the DPS and healer flatout ignored it or even refused to cc. Sure, a well-geared group can zerg there, but I find it much easier and quicker (i.e. for the healer) to CC the healers...its ONE button to press, and I dont find it "more manly" or whatever to just zerg groups, when it is so much easier to just CC one mob.See, I LOVE tanking, and I do know how to do it. I enjoy doing it, but take it serious, always trying to do a good job. But I will not do it for PUGs anymore, same as healing. One other thing, people keep calling tanks divas. And yes, there are some that are, I dunno, very demanding, or rude, or whatever, I have seen that as a DPS. But you know, maybe one of the reasons WHY SOME of those "divas" behave like that is that they are at the point where they yell at people or are rude from the getgo because of bad experiences. My reaction to those experiences is that I choose to not tank anymore. But I do know several people who decided to keep doing it, but changed their behaviour. Healers who start yelling at DPS who keep standing in the fire just to keep on topping the meter. Healers that keep yelling at tanks when they dont wait until the healer is at full mana before doing a huge pull. Tanks who yell at DPS who dont attack the focus-target or skull or whatever. I have a friend who decided he wanted to lvl from 15-85 almost entirely by tanking. He gave up shortly before 80, but before he did, his behaviour in pugs had changed cuz he had so many stressful runs where people just pulled left and right, ran ahead, did dps races with each other, which is not fun as the tank. One more quick story: I decided to level yet another pally-tank earlier this year. Went into my first PUG, and had two mages, from the same guild. Throughout the whole instance, they kept pulling or overnuking like maniacs. I was taunting, moving from mob to mob like a maniac. When I confronted them, they laughed at me and continued to blink ahead to drop a few big spells on 2-3 mobs. Sure, if the healer had stopped healing them, maybe they had stopped, but he didnt, and it was just a very stressful run and a really sucky experience.I am not saying all "diva tanks" are just victims of the behaviour in PUGs, but I do KNOW for a fact that several tanks I know simply have had so many bad experiences that they start giving orders and stuff in every PUG just to not let that happen anymore.Of course, there also are your jerks =)Anyway, that was my rant. Me, and several of my friends, dont find tanking that insanely hard or whatever, we like the responsibility and challenge it sometimes can be. But we won't do it for PUGs anymore, no matter if we get that reward-bag or not.
8-26-2011 @ 8:38AM
Yes, the go guy sucks and people can be mean. Honestly though, I'd say about 90% of the people I pug with are perfectly fine. My main is bear and I've also been grinding VPs on my Prot pally, so I've pugged more troll-roics than I care to mention. Usually, I don't even have to initiate a kick of the bad players, somebody else will hit it first because most people enjoy a fun run - free of idiots.This may be odd, but I prefer pugs to guild runs, UNLESS I'm learning the content. Guild runs seem to be "help me get stuff" while pugs normally have folks who know the fights and are after their VPs.
8-26-2011 @ 12:56PM
This ^^ is why I dont tank any more. The amount of sheer arrogant arsehatishness in the LFD groups I've tried has me scared furrless./retired bear.
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