The OverAchiever: Why Icecrown was less fun than Sunwell
Every Thursday, The Overachiever shows you how to work toward those sweet achievement points. This week, we contemplate the effect wrought by raid achievements.
Achievements as a whole are great for World of Warcraft; they ask you to look at the game a bit differently, to create challenges for yourself, and to get involved with zones and stories that you might otherwise ignore. Unfortunately, they can also spur players and guilds to approach raid content in a way that's not necessarily fulfilling for all concerned.
Since Wrath of the Lich King, I've slowly gotten the sense that raiding as a whole is much less rewarding than it used to be, and this is a sentiment that's been echoed by a number of other players. Unfortunately, achievements -- originally intended to add another means of accomplishment to raids -- may well be among the causes.
EDIT: This article resulted in a lot of discussion, and the subject was revisited two weeks later. You'll find it here, at OverAchiever: Reconsidering achievements and raids.
Raiding before achievements
During classic WoW and The Burning Crusade, raiding's difficulty lay in the encounters themselves. In the total absence of achievements and heroic modes, beating an encounter was itself the achievement. There were no drakes given for the completion of raid content, there were no "nerd points" associated with your first kill, and you knew exactly where a tier 5 guild that advertised itself as "3/4 TK and 5/6 SSC" on the recruitment forums lay in the game's internal pecking order. Beating a boss even once was enough to give your raiders an enormous sense of accomplishment, and your guild could rest somewhat, secure in the knowledge that advancing gear and greater experience would make the content increasingly easy to do.
While this meant that getting keyed was a big deal -- and it was the mark of a good (or at least competent) player simply to be among those with the privilege of accessing Mount Hyjal and Black Temple -- this raiding model wasn't necessarily good for the game as a whole. The appellation "guild-killer" grew out of the existence of notoriously difficult encounters like Kael'thas, Lady Vashj, Brutallus, and M'uru, all of whom needed to be killed even to see later raid content, much less beat it. Unfortunately, the phrase was no myth. Countless guilds broke up while trying to hurdle bosses with truly difficult mechanics, probably because the inability to progress inevitably exaggerated any existing fault lines within a guild.
Developers also found themselves programming for what was said to be less than 1% of the playerbase at times. Most people simply did not belong to guilds that were capable of getting past bosses like Kael'thas, and so the vast majority of the game's characters languished in a sort of no-man's-land at the level cap once they had exhausted options from battlegrounds (in classic) and badge gear/heroics (in BC).
The advancing raid model
Consequently, Blizzard altered its approach to raid content in the transition to Wrath of the Lich King. Keying requirements are largely a thing of the past, and the greater portion of difficulty associated with raiding has been stripped and reassigned. In Wrath and Cataclysm, a raid encounter's true challenge is determined by the annoyance value of the accompanying achievement(s) and/or the encounter's degree of difficulty on heroic. Encounters like Lady Deathwhisper and the Conclave of Wind weren't particularly tough on normal mode, but they were reasonably challenging on heroic, and then became a real pain in the ass once you added their respective achievements (Full House and Stay Chill, at least before the latter was nerfed).
Developers experimented with different means of adding achievements to raid content, first trying a model where achievements were themselves the "heroic" versions of encounters in tiers 7 and 8 (Naxxramas, Malygos, Sartharion, and Ulduar), and then settling in tiers 9, 10, 11, and 12 for turning heroic into a mode that must be toggled. The problem with this model is that, while it solves the issues presented by the bottlenecked raids and players in classic WoW and The Burning Crusade, it creates others. Guilds are eventually obliged to confront achievements, because that's where the most tangible rewards of raiding now belong. Raid progression on its own is no longer enough.
The raid that never ends
One of the sadder things I've noticed about modern raiding is how few screaming, hollering, completely off-the-wall moments were experienced with guildies. Beating an encounter used to result in the guild's going nuts on Vent because the encounter itself was the challenge. You got Kael'thas down? Complete pandemonium. The Eredar Twins? You'd have the ringing in your ears for days after all the screaming.
These days, it's just the beginning of a slog to the encounter's real rewards. Normal encounters aren't generally difficult, and it feels weird to celebrate getting them down after a few hours' work. Ditto the achievement; you've still got heroic to go. By the time you get to heroic, you don't much feel like celebrating because you've already beaten versions of the encounter several times over. The joy of the first kill is distinctly muted in comparison to its counterparts in classic WoW and The Burning Crusade, mostly because the first kill is essentially meaningless.
The problem with achievements -- and more particularly, the fact that tiers 10, 11, and 12 have required the heroic versions of raid content in order to get the metas Glory of the Icecrown Raider, Glory of the Cataclysm Raider, and Glory of the Firelands Raider-- is that they have an unfortunate habit of turning raid content into a seemingly endless series of hurdles. Many of the tier 10 and tier 11 achievements were and are sufficiently cumbersome to discourage guilds from attempting to tackle them on anything but normal mode, and so three consistent tiers of difficulty have emerged:
Yikes.
While this problem has always existed in one form or another (e.g., having to return to encounters like Lady Vashj and Kael'thas in order to key raid members who weren't in on the original kill), it's become particularly nightmarish in an era when progression itself is irrelevant. The end result of achievements and heroic versions of raid content is that you're never quite finished with it; there's someone else in the guild who's waiting on the version they need or waiting to upgrade a piece of gear to its heroic brother.
The ultimate effect of achievements
Are achievements ultimately good for raiding? I think the answer to this is a qualified yes. Despite their effect on raids, achievements are generally fun to do, and they make you think about how to beat encounters in new and often interesting ways. However, I'm not sure that the current design of raiding achievements -- and in particular, how they're required in addition to heroic modes in order to win a meta -- are doing players any favors. They extend the life of the content, but they do so in a fashion that makes you increasingly likely to resent it.
A lot of people have argued that the Ulduar model for raid achievements is ultimately the best way to go. Achievements like Firefighter, Alone in the Darkness, and I Choose You, Steelbreaker were themselves the heroic versions of encounters, and returning to this model would circumvent the annoying three-tier difficulty described above. However, it has to be said that this probably requires more work on Blizzard's end, as encounters have to be designed with activated achievement criteria in mind (e.g., Mimiron's button, XT-002 Deconstructor's heart).
I'm not sure it's a good idea to return truly difficult normal raids to the game, but right now, the true reward of an encounter is increasingly divorced from original intent of raiding. Progression was once itself a reward, and now, it's just a demoralizing beginning.
Working on achievements? The Overachiever is here to help! Count on us for advice on Azeroth's holidays and special events, including new achievements, how to get 310% flight speed with achievement mounts, and Cataclysm reputation factions and achievements.
Achievements as a whole are great for World of Warcraft; they ask you to look at the game a bit differently, to create challenges for yourself, and to get involved with zones and stories that you might otherwise ignore. Unfortunately, they can also spur players and guilds to approach raid content in a way that's not necessarily fulfilling for all concerned.
Since Wrath of the Lich King, I've slowly gotten the sense that raiding as a whole is much less rewarding than it used to be, and this is a sentiment that's been echoed by a number of other players. Unfortunately, achievements -- originally intended to add another means of accomplishment to raids -- may well be among the causes.
EDIT: This article resulted in a lot of discussion, and the subject was revisited two weeks later. You'll find it here, at OverAchiever: Reconsidering achievements and raids.

During classic WoW and The Burning Crusade, raiding's difficulty lay in the encounters themselves. In the total absence of achievements and heroic modes, beating an encounter was itself the achievement. There were no drakes given for the completion of raid content, there were no "nerd points" associated with your first kill, and you knew exactly where a tier 5 guild that advertised itself as "3/4 TK and 5/6 SSC" on the recruitment forums lay in the game's internal pecking order. Beating a boss even once was enough to give your raiders an enormous sense of accomplishment, and your guild could rest somewhat, secure in the knowledge that advancing gear and greater experience would make the content increasingly easy to do.
While this meant that getting keyed was a big deal -- and it was the mark of a good (or at least competent) player simply to be among those with the privilege of accessing Mount Hyjal and Black Temple -- this raiding model wasn't necessarily good for the game as a whole. The appellation "guild-killer" grew out of the existence of notoriously difficult encounters like Kael'thas, Lady Vashj, Brutallus, and M'uru, all of whom needed to be killed even to see later raid content, much less beat it. Unfortunately, the phrase was no myth. Countless guilds broke up while trying to hurdle bosses with truly difficult mechanics, probably because the inability to progress inevitably exaggerated any existing fault lines within a guild.
Developers also found themselves programming for what was said to be less than 1% of the playerbase at times. Most people simply did not belong to guilds that were capable of getting past bosses like Kael'thas, and so the vast majority of the game's characters languished in a sort of no-man's-land at the level cap once they had exhausted options from battlegrounds (in classic) and badge gear/heroics (in BC).
The advancing raid model
Consequently, Blizzard altered its approach to raid content in the transition to Wrath of the Lich King. Keying requirements are largely a thing of the past, and the greater portion of difficulty associated with raiding has been stripped and reassigned. In Wrath and Cataclysm, a raid encounter's true challenge is determined by the annoyance value of the accompanying achievement(s) and/or the encounter's degree of difficulty on heroic. Encounters like Lady Deathwhisper and the Conclave of Wind weren't particularly tough on normal mode, but they were reasonably challenging on heroic, and then became a real pain in the ass once you added their respective achievements (Full House and Stay Chill, at least before the latter was nerfed).
Developers experimented with different means of adding achievements to raid content, first trying a model where achievements were themselves the "heroic" versions of encounters in tiers 7 and 8 (Naxxramas, Malygos, Sartharion, and Ulduar), and then settling in tiers 9, 10, 11, and 12 for turning heroic into a mode that must be toggled. The problem with this model is that, while it solves the issues presented by the bottlenecked raids and players in classic WoW and The Burning Crusade, it creates others. Guilds are eventually obliged to confront achievements, because that's where the most tangible rewards of raiding now belong. Raid progression on its own is no longer enough.

One of the sadder things I've noticed about modern raiding is how few screaming, hollering, completely off-the-wall moments were experienced with guildies. Beating an encounter used to result in the guild's going nuts on Vent because the encounter itself was the challenge. You got Kael'thas down? Complete pandemonium. The Eredar Twins? You'd have the ringing in your ears for days after all the screaming.
These days, it's just the beginning of a slog to the encounter's real rewards. Normal encounters aren't generally difficult, and it feels weird to celebrate getting them down after a few hours' work. Ditto the achievement; you've still got heroic to go. By the time you get to heroic, you don't much feel like celebrating because you've already beaten versions of the encounter several times over. The joy of the first kill is distinctly muted in comparison to its counterparts in classic WoW and The Burning Crusade, mostly because the first kill is essentially meaningless.
The problem with achievements -- and more particularly, the fact that tiers 10, 11, and 12 have required the heroic versions of raid content in order to get the metas Glory of the Icecrown Raider, Glory of the Cataclysm Raider, and Glory of the Firelands Raider-- is that they have an unfortunate habit of turning raid content into a seemingly endless series of hurdles. Many of the tier 10 and tier 11 achievements were and are sufficiently cumbersome to discourage guilds from attempting to tackle them on anything but normal mode, and so three consistent tiers of difficulty have emerged:
- The normal encounter Most guilds should be able to do these with a bit of elbow grease, but there's no real reward associated with this content anymore. Even gear drops, with so many options outside of raids now, aren't quite as encouraging because gear's just a means to an end.
- The encounter's achievement These range from very easy to very difficult, but most guilds will elect to do them on the normal version of an encounter if possible.
- The heroic encounter The most difficult version of the encounter and the one most similar to the original difficulty of classic and BC raids.
Yikes.
While this problem has always existed in one form or another (e.g., having to return to encounters like Lady Vashj and Kael'thas in order to key raid members who weren't in on the original kill), it's become particularly nightmarish in an era when progression itself is irrelevant. The end result of achievements and heroic versions of raid content is that you're never quite finished with it; there's someone else in the guild who's waiting on the version they need or waiting to upgrade a piece of gear to its heroic brother.

Are achievements ultimately good for raiding? I think the answer to this is a qualified yes. Despite their effect on raids, achievements are generally fun to do, and they make you think about how to beat encounters in new and often interesting ways. However, I'm not sure that the current design of raiding achievements -- and in particular, how they're required in addition to heroic modes in order to win a meta -- are doing players any favors. They extend the life of the content, but they do so in a fashion that makes you increasingly likely to resent it.
A lot of people have argued that the Ulduar model for raid achievements is ultimately the best way to go. Achievements like Firefighter, Alone in the Darkness, and I Choose You, Steelbreaker were themselves the heroic versions of encounters, and returning to this model would circumvent the annoying three-tier difficulty described above. However, it has to be said that this probably requires more work on Blizzard's end, as encounters have to be designed with activated achievement criteria in mind (e.g., Mimiron's button, XT-002 Deconstructor's heart).
I'm not sure it's a good idea to return truly difficult normal raids to the game, but right now, the true reward of an encounter is increasingly divorced from original intent of raiding. Progression was once itself a reward, and now, it's just a demoralizing beginning.
Working on achievements? The Overachiever is here to help! Count on us for advice on Azeroth's holidays and special events, including new achievements, how to get 310% flight speed with achievement mounts, and Cataclysm reputation factions and achievements.
Filed under: Achievements, The Overachiever
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
tibbelkrunk Aug 25th 2011 2:22PM
I'm going to disagree with this statement:
"Progression was once itself a reward, and now, it's just a demoralizing beginning."
You should have heard the excitement in our vent when we finally got the normal-mode Lich King down, and Nefarian's demise wasn't exactly met with somber silence either (even though we were late).
I suppose your individual sense of achievement depends on how you personally define success. If success for one person is a shiny yellow number 10 on their character sheet, then I guess there is a slower, more tiered approach toward it nowadays. But if you just like to see challenges and then overcome them, then I would say heroic modes and achievements offer 3 times as many opportunities for that success.
Allison Robert Aug 25th 2011 3:14PM
End bosses are probably special cases, though; they tend to be far more difficult than the bosses preceding them even on normal. I would argue that normal Lich King is actually a more difficult encounter than, say, heroic Blood Queen, Marrowgar, Gunship, or Saurfang.
And then, of course, heroic Lich King was in a world of its own ...
Lissanna Aug 25th 2011 5:39PM
In Wrath of the Lich King, even end-bosses didn't have the same sort of celebration that came with EVERY new boss kill along the way during BC & vanilla.
For players happy with normal-mode-only progression, you still end up with that feeling of having done it on "easy" mode (even if it was actually quite difficult for your raid group's gear level & experience makeup). It just feels different. Between WotLK & today, I've only had maybe 1 real celebration moment that came close to having the same feeling that I felt in BC. Sure, we celebrate - but it's really not the same.
Skarn Aug 26th 2011 2:14AM
Actually, my raid was pretty stoked when we got Rhyolith down a couple weeks ago. And Beth'tilac before that. Baleroc was pretty easy, but when Alysrazor goes down, that'll be awesome too. That's all normal mode, with very little expectation for clearing everything on Heroic (though we might do some) and thus also very little reason to worry about the achievements, besides fun.
I often think that myself and my 10-man guild are in a very good spot. Normal raids are fairly challenging for us (20+ wipes on Rhyolith and Beth'tilac, FYI), but not impossible. It's a lot of fun and we are only competing with ourselves.
Zuzlu Aug 26th 2011 5:13AM
@Lissanna
This. I haven't had the opportunity to raid since before the t11 nerfs, but I got most of the tier down on normal. Before that I got through all of ICC, most of ToC, much of Uld, and all of t7 (all this on normal, with maybe a couple heroic kills sprinkled around). In BC I raided a little: Kara, Gruul, Mag, and a little into TK.
In this modest raiding resume, I can think of exactly two kills that sparked guild-wide celebration from people who weren't there, screaming in vent, and me jumping up and down in front of my desk. These two are normal Lich King, and A'lar.
The LK was celebration-worthy because the was the big Bad whose head people had wanted to see roll since before classic WoW even hit the shelves. He taunted you all the way from 70 to 80 and you were here to throw it IN HIS FACE, not to mention that the encounter difficulty was head and shoulders above the rest of this instance, with the possible exception of Sindy. Big build-up, big struggle, big rewards, big party.
Contrast this with A'lar who was the FIRST BOSS of one of the expansion's middle raids, but got the same party. The celebration was all because the first kill of A'lar for any guild was invariably a perfect storm. The same stuff would hit the fan that always led to a wipe, but this time tanks made it to their positions just a little faster, ranged nuked just a little harder, and adds were handled just a little more neatly. Everyone watched the enrage time tick down and nobody wanted to go without a fight. Healers saved tanks, DPS, and each other at less than 1%. Raiders began to handle each others' mistakes before the problem could be reported on vent. Resto druids added a 3rd lifebloom stack, then a forth. But finally, it was too late. A'lar enraged and clobbered the tanks, then started in on the DPS. The raid leader would call on vent "Enrage: it's a wi-". Then suddenly, with less then half of the raid alive, the bird would keel over to thunderous applause.
Not every fight can be A'lar, of course. That would be exhausting. Still, I think that raid design suffers overall for having these kind of fights only at the end of instances. Fights like A'lar make you really feel like a hero triumphing over impossible odds, and there could stand to be a few more fights which -- on normal -- might really take some time to get past. Too many would be harmful, particularly to people who prefer to raid casually (a group that solidly includes me, for anyone who cares), but a few would add something more interesting for hardcore groups to do, while also giving groups that might not make it all the way to the end bosses something to really chew on.
I also agree that Ulduar's hardmode model was hands-down the best, and that Ulduar stands out as a raiding gem amongst all the raids wow has seen. I went back with a group and did Firestarter when we were all in full ICC25 gear, and you know what? It STILL too two whole nights of attempts, because Firestarter isn't about the numbers, it's about how well you work as a team, and THAT's what raiding is about. Content like Firestarter is awesome, but should be optional (as of course it was).
Z
kerese Aug 25th 2011 2:25PM
I think your post is spot on for a certain section of WoW players. I'm sure it is anticlimactic to get to hard modes after having killed the normal mode boss in a few hours. As someone who raided in a fairly casual setting, however, I can say that it WAS very exciting to kill those normal mode bosses the first time, because it DID take us several days (or weeks in the case of the LK) to kill them. I think that if bosses were still in the form that you remember, I would NEVER have gotten to kill them and thus would have been denied any pleasure in that regard. While it is true that A) the majority of people on this site are the ones killing normal mode bosses in 5-6 attempts and B) would gain the most from harder content, I do think that it is extremely important to note your point that only 1% of the playerbase was seeing some bosses. Lamentable as the new content may be for hardcore raiders, there are thousands more people who actually get to see and *gasp* KILL bosses now that would never have even been able to get to those bosses in ye olden days. I agree that bosses lose their luster the third time through, and that for some guilds that is where the true rewards lie. That being said, I have never faced a hardmode boss when the content was current, and speaking from this point of view, I can say that I greatly appreciate the opportunity to see more of the endgame. In sum, while I agree that the endgame has become easier and perhaps boring to hardcore raiders, I think it has also opened the door to many more raiders who otherwise would never get to see that content. It's a trade-off that Blizzard chose very carefully, and it's success or failure is entirely dependent on your point of view.
Philster043 Aug 25th 2011 2:26PM
I LOVE you for writing this article.
Whenever I raided I never, ever worried about the achievements... even though I'm an achievement hunter. But as far as raids went, what I always wanted to do was basically see the content, beat each boss, maybe pick up a few upgrades and THAT'S IT, mission accomplished.
Achievements for beating each boss was cool enough for me. But specific-boss achievements I think should be left to the 5-man dungeons, I do feel like the Glory of the Hero and such are cool stuff. And then there's the general achievements like the Immortal achievements (the whole group staying alive for the entire encounter) which would be a true challenge for any guild crazy enough to try for it. But achievements that distract from the accomplishment of killing a single raid boss and obscuring a job well done for a group just isn't worth it, I don't think.
Kal Aug 25th 2011 2:35PM
Great way to put it, Allison.
Ulduar really was the pinnacle here. Even when we went back to do Ulduar's achievements to get the meta there wasn't the sense of annoyance in doing it, though it was considered not a pushover at the time. But doing the metas for ICC? Okay, we have to track who needs heroic what, and then who needs the meta, and how much gear drops off of x and when we can stop doing it because the loot/reward is good enough. It's especially bad in ICC when you have to do the 4 end bosses on heroic to even see HLK. Same somewhat goes for Cho'gall; we're in the position where we can either do CHo'galls achievement or do Sinestra, but not both.
It's very frustrating. Raiding is already enough of a time sink.
Allison Robert Aug 25th 2011 2:53PM
Now that you mention, the only truly annoying Ulduar achievement that I can recall offhand was Iron Dwarf, Medium Rare. You can argue Ignis' speed kill was just a gear/competence check and Mimiron's evil red button was really nothing more than a more interesting version of the normal/heroic toggle, but angling for Ulduar achievements really forced your hand on the bosses' basic mechanics. With the benefit of hindsight, it's pretty brilliant how they forced raids to play so well on stuff like Freya and Yogg.
The Cho'gall/Sinestra and ICC/Arthas thing is a point I probably should have thought to include. That's a REALLY irritating aspect of the normal/heroic/achievement split, and it's one that'll reoccur each week you're taking a new person through the content, particularly with anything like Deathwhisper's achievement (which admittedly could be done on heroic, but God it was a hassle with healers). The current design is really unfriendly to any guild that's replacing someone on the roster and wants to get this person his/her achievements.
Razz Aug 25th 2011 9:33PM
Really good points -- for ICC, we needed a Google spreadsheet to track who still needed what for the meta, so we could know which bosses to fly through on normal and which we needed for achievements/heroic mode.
That said, we still had a lot of Vent excitement in our raid group when we got normal Nef down the week before the nerf after lots of time lost from people dropping out, reforming the group, etc.
Regarding the move away from the Ulduar-style (which seems to be pretty widely admired), one thing that Blizzard said to justify the UI toggle was that they didn't want people to have to use external resources (like Wowhead) to figure out how to engage the heroic version of the encounter. With the Dungeon Journal now in the game, maybe we can go back to Ulduar style since they can use that to explain how to do the encounter on heroic.
Arrowsmith Aug 25th 2011 2:35PM
Blackwing Descent hard modes: Victor Nefarius wanders around the instance in a set pattern. You can't attack him, and he can't attack you, but if he wanders into a room where you're trying to kill a boss, he heals the boss for a certain amount of health (proportional to how much damage you've already done to the boss) and starts meddling with the encounter. This would add a sense of urgency to the place. Can you defeat a boss before Nefarius comes back and makes thing harder, or do you wait for him to do so?
Ideas for hard modes in Firelands: make a Spiderling climb up to Beth'tilac and let her eat it. Kill Riplimb first. A Harbinger of the Flame casts enough Fieroblasts to cause him/her to cast the meteor. Talking to Cenarius, Malfurion, and Hamuul determines how much health Ragnaros has in Phase 4 and what new mechanics have to be dealt with (telling all three to stand down doesn't cause Phase 4 to happen at all). Majordomo Staghelm must always get to a certain number of stacks of Adrenaline before he switches forms. Kill Rhyolith with a certain number of volcanoes active at the start of phase 2.
Mind you, these are just ideas, but I wanted to show that it is possible to retain the Ulduar model of Hard/Heroic modes.
Alurius Aug 25th 2011 2:45PM
I'm not entirely sure when most people are raiding, or when; but tanking and successfully killing Nef on Normal mode before the rise of Zandalari Heroics was a triumph. It wasn't quite on the same level as bringing down The Twins, but it was very much a Hell Yes moment for those involved. Reaffirmation of skill as a tank and raider.
Had my group the fortitude to stay together through to Heroics, we would have been just as excited. But I'm alright with it taking longer to get to the challenging content. Beats being the 1%.
Alurius Aug 25th 2011 2:46PM
*Where or when. Morning work on my tab. Deep.
Celton Aug 25th 2011 2:45PM
I think making the game more exciting for 99% of the player base is worth making the game more boring for the other 1% of the player base.
Allison Robert Aug 25th 2011 3:00PM
I probably articulated the argument poorly, but that's really not what the column is about.
bilbomoody Aug 25th 2011 3:04PM
THIS x1,000
T Aug 25th 2011 3:52PM
The argument may have been articulated poorly, but the implied point stands. A fraction of the player base was seeing the endgame content and Blizzard changed that in WotLK. Based on reader comments that I see here and at MMO Champion, this is a bad thing because it means the raiders have to find new ways to make themselves feel superior to the remaining playerbase. Mounts and achievements are Blizzard's answers to that complaint.
Your article points out, and rightly so, that this has changed raiding and not necessarily for the better. Still, it is unreasonable to think that Blizzard should spend much of their time designing content no one will see.
The fact is this: The company that can successfully address the desires and needs of both hardcore and and casual players is well on their way to having a successful MMORPG. Hardcore raiders, despite their negative opinions of more casual players, can not be allowed to dictate game direction. Devoting a disproportionate amount of resources towards content very few people will see is a waste. The mentality that it is all about the raiders all the time is gone for those companies who wish to appeal to a large audience.
Allison Robert Aug 25th 2011 4:10PM
@T
I think the column's pretty clear about the problems that resulted from the "1% of players saw Sunwell" model, and to be frank, I'm not really interested in rehashing the tired hardcore vs. casuals debate. My own position on the matter is pretty close to your own: It's a waste of time, money, and resources for Blizzard to design content that most players will never see.
I've been on both sides of the hardcore and casual divide, so I have been (and for that matter, am now) the person with her nose pressed on the glass watching something she can't do. However, I've also raided enough to gain an inkling of how achievements affect the average player's enjoyment of raid content. Saying that raid achievements interact poorly with the normal/heroic raid model is not the same as saying that casual players are useless. It just means that raid achievements interact poorly with the normal/heroic raid model.
The original title for this article was "How achievements can make raids less fun." You can imagine how much I'm kicking myself for changing that now. :)
Caz Aug 25th 2011 2:45PM
It seems like a lot of poeple look back to BC raiding very fondly.
This mght not be a popular opinion and will get downrated, but nonetheless I don't think this really has anything to do with achievements or that "BC raids were better". For many, BC was when they started raiding - it was new - fresh - exciting and fun. These same players are still slogging away inside of raid instances 5 years later, and frankly, I believe their current disillusionment has more to do with burnout that with any design philosophy at Blizzard.
Eventually, raids just aren't fun when when you obsess over being on the current tier of progression for 5 years and running, and the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia make everything in the past better than what is available in the present.
Oriflame Aug 25th 2011 2:49PM
I'm not sure I understand the premise. The the argument does not seem to be that really hard encounters that only 1% of the players got past was more fun becuase less people saw them and it was therefore better to be in the 1%? Is the argument that really hard encounters were better because keeping track of acheivements and hard modes at the same time is annoying?
I'm not sure I can agree with the premise of the article, but I'm not sure I know what that premise was.