Ready Check: Dealing with a low DPSer
Ready Check helps you prepare yourself and your raid for the bosses that simply require killing. Check back with Ready Check each week for the latest pointers on killing adds, not standing in fire, and hoping for loot that won't drop.
For the first week in a long time, we aren't featuring a boss guide. I'm not sure how I feel with not having my work totally scripted for me, but overall I'm up for the change of pace. I've been toying with doing heroic guides or not. Some of them are just so similar to their normal counterparts that there's no tangible difference, leaving the majority of the guide being essentially the same as the previous. We'll see, but in the meantime, I'm certainly working on something great for next raid.
That's not this week, though. This week, I'm going to start the first of a new little mini-series: how to deal with raiders who just aren't up to par. Let's face it, every player functions at a different skill level; collectively, every guild has its own skill average. Sometimes, a player just doesn't make the cut. Bosses have certain requirements, and if you're a raiding team that wants to down these bosses, you might be faced with some hard choices. No one likes carrying other players, yet no one wants to be the bad guy that has to tell others they aren't good enough for the team. This week, we'll be dealing with DPSers who aren't up to snuff.
Finding the problem and the initial confrontation
First, let us define what being up to par means. In terms of DPS, you actually have the easiest metric out of all the other roles in determining how a player is performing: DPS meters. While there is the risk of going too far with meters and, as with anything, you need more than a single data set to go off of, using DPS meters can easily be used to track a player's performance. In this case, the comparison is not against the Top 100 or whichever other metric that whatever site uses; the comparison is exclusively against that of your own team. Nothing more, nothing less.
Always make comparisons within house; never even bother with what you see other players performing at. You don't know what strategy those players are using, you don't know their gear setup, and you don't know what weird or strange mechanics may be involved with their parses. There are simply too many unknown factors involved. Within any raid team, everyone's DPS should create a neat average, and every player should be within an acceptable range of that margin.
When faced with a lack of progression to the point that you evaluate keeping a player a part of the team or not, always be direct with the player. Pull him aside before or after a raid -- preferably the latter -- and express your concerns. Be nonconfrontational and allow him to defend himself, but by the same token be firm. Don't tell him that he sucks or that he's bad; just say that his DPS isn't up to the average of the rest of the raid and that he has a time frame of X to correct it or his spot is going to be taken by another player.
Set realistic goals -- I would give a player two weeks -- and for the love of Elune, stick to them. If you tell a player that he has two weeks to shape up, then he has two weeks to shape up -- not three, not four. Two.
Dealing with excuses
Now, when going into this conversation, there are a few things that you need to be ready for. First is that he will certainly defend himself. Some people are more passive, but I have yet to see a single player who just says, "Yes, my DPS is unacceptable; I'll fix it." Players are going to defend themselves, but you cannot allow yourself to buy into these arguments. Unacceptable DPS is purely that -- unacceptable. There are no excuses for it. Here are the more common lines you'll hear.
It isn't me -- it's my spec! More commonly, this comes from hybrid classes, but pures use it just as much these days. In every single example, it is nothing short of bollocks. In this day and age of WoW, there is not a single spec that I have seen whose simulated DPS is so poor that a player using it is going to parse so far below the normal average of a raid. As an example, the current destruction warlock spec simulates as being around 3,000 DPS less than affliction. This is in perfect conditions with people performing perfectly. This is not going to happen within your raid. The average and even the good player is not going to change his spec from destruction to affliction and suddenly see a 3,000 jump in DPS. It doesn't work that way.
For starters, no player performs to the absolute best of his spec's ability. None. You can simulate until the sun burns out; it just doesn't matter. Encounter mechanics alone will prevent a player from performing at the most optimal level, and from there it only goes downhill as he starts to make minor mistakes. Each mistake in a rotation leads to far more DPS loss than anything else. The little, inconsequential mistakes that most players make in their rotation during an encounter account for all of the damage that their talents give them combined. A perfect player could have spent no talent points and perform better than a fully specced player who only makes a few mistakes.
Spec never has been and never will be an acceptable excuse for poor DPS performance. Players of all types have been proving that since vanilla. A fantastic player can take any spec and beat the pants off of an average player, no matter what spec that he plays.
Further, in many cases, DPS is all about skill cap. Skill caps used to be the big buzzword back during a portion of Wrath, but it is a concept that has rather died off since then. Essentially, not all specs are created equal. While there may be a 3,000 DPS difference between a perfectly played affliction and destruction warlock, due to skill cap differences, there would probably only be a 1,000 or less DPS difference between average players of the same time. Skill influences each spec differently, and it's a huge scaling factor that many simulators just don't take into account. Precise timing accounts for more DPS for one spec than it does for others.
Lastly, if you know that you spec is holding you back so much to as risk your position within a raid, why play it? I fully understand that players want to play the spec that's the most fun to them -- hell, I'm a vanilla balance druid, and those didn't even exist back then -- yet there just has to be somewhere that you draw the line. At some point, a player has to say to himself, "I love this spec, but it just isn't viable at this point in the game." It sucks, and we all hate it, but there are just times where you have to deal with.
These bosses just don't support my spec. Encounter design plays a huge factor in which specs succeed or fail, this is true. Certain specs just have that one ability or talent that's spectacular for a boss fight and causes it to pull miles ahead of others. This happens all the time; it has been happening since the very first raid, and it will keep on happening. Good raiders and good players have to learn to be adaptive. Maybe you hate playing survival, but if survival hunters can make use of unique encounter mechanic to push an additional 5,000 DPS, then frankly we've reached a point where it doesn't matter what you want anymore.
It may seem crass and rude, but raid leaders have to understand that they can't always worry about the feelings of a single player; they have an entire raid of players, plus people on standby, that they have to think of too. If you have reached a point where you just can't down a boss because your DPS isn't there and you have a raider who is refusing something so basic as to switch specs for a single fight where that spec offers such a huge benefit, then it is time for that player to go.
Frankly, I do not even see how someone can justify using this excuse. This might be horrible of me, but it is true. In the day where two dailies can pay for a respec, when there are dual specs, how can any raider sit back and be content with themselves to say, "I know that going spec X for this one encounter would be a massive help to my raid, but I only play as spec Y, and I'm not changing specs." Make no mistake, that is exactly what these people are saying. Sure, I'm certain they word it a more flattering light, but that's the general meaning.
I'd be fine if only I had Item X. During my time as a raid leader, I got this retort quite often, and it is the only one that has ever given my any pause. Itemization is something of a double-edged sword in many cases. At the surface, this excuse has no foundation, but there are rare exceptions.
First and foremost, itemization almost never makes or breaks a spec -- it always comes down to the player -- yet there are times that certain items can have a huge impact on a player's performance. As an example, the current elemental shaman raiding tier offers a huge damage bonus. The old balance druid tier was similar, with the four-piece being worth thousands of DPS.
Any time that I hear this used, my first counter-question is to ask why they don't yet have the item. Drops can be hell, I will not deny that at all, yet by the same token, it should be equally bad to everyone involved. You shouldn't even be in a position where a single mage or a single warlock is far behind the pack because of a single item drop. Gearing simply isn't that important. No matter how much DPS an item is worth to a player, it just isn't going to account for their performing well below average. If anything, you're now in a situation where a player is underperforming and they want to use an item to mask that.
What happens when you reach the next raiding tier and that item isn't as overpowered as it once was? As they slide back down to the point that they're no longer holding their own, what do you do? Certain items can hold a vast impact on damage in very specific situations, but it will never do more than mask the failings of a player who isn't performing at the same level as the rest of the raid. In these situations, the player should likely be average without and pushing the top of the pack with it.
You can't be everyone's friend
I know that most of this can seem very harsh, but you have to understand the position that raid leaders are put in when raids stop making progression. All of this content is designed so that it can be done; when you can't do it, you really have to look at why. Most every encounter created relies upon the DPS far more than any other role. Low DPS can cause trickling issues in the raid that can make it appear as though you have a different issue, but the truth is plain.
As a raid leader, you can't always be everyone's friend; there are going to be times when you have to be the bad guy. Having a DPSer who is lagging behind the rest of the pack is an issue that effects the raid as a whole, and it's your job to make sure that it is corrected. These players have to be confronted, and while the thought may seem unappetizing, it's a part of the job that you must face.
Be direct; be firm. Tell the player in question the issue, offer to work with him, give him a chance to improve his performance, but don't buy into what he's selling. Players hate being called out, as it were (and who wouldn't?), yet it must be done. Do it, and be prepared for their fast talk to get out. Harsh as it seems, they are but one player; you've got nine or 24 others to look out for as well.
Ready Check shares all the strategies and inside information you need to take your raiding to the next level. Be sure to look up our strategy guides to Cataclysm's 5-man instances, and for more healer-centric advice, visit Raid Rx.
For the first week in a long time, we aren't featuring a boss guide. I'm not sure how I feel with not having my work totally scripted for me, but overall I'm up for the change of pace. I've been toying with doing heroic guides or not. Some of them are just so similar to their normal counterparts that there's no tangible difference, leaving the majority of the guide being essentially the same as the previous. We'll see, but in the meantime, I'm certainly working on something great for next raid.
That's not this week, though. This week, I'm going to start the first of a new little mini-series: how to deal with raiders who just aren't up to par. Let's face it, every player functions at a different skill level; collectively, every guild has its own skill average. Sometimes, a player just doesn't make the cut. Bosses have certain requirements, and if you're a raiding team that wants to down these bosses, you might be faced with some hard choices. No one likes carrying other players, yet no one wants to be the bad guy that has to tell others they aren't good enough for the team. This week, we'll be dealing with DPSers who aren't up to snuff.
Finding the problem and the initial confrontation
First, let us define what being up to par means. In terms of DPS, you actually have the easiest metric out of all the other roles in determining how a player is performing: DPS meters. While there is the risk of going too far with meters and, as with anything, you need more than a single data set to go off of, using DPS meters can easily be used to track a player's performance. In this case, the comparison is not against the Top 100 or whichever other metric that whatever site uses; the comparison is exclusively against that of your own team. Nothing more, nothing less.
Always make comparisons within house; never even bother with what you see other players performing at. You don't know what strategy those players are using, you don't know their gear setup, and you don't know what weird or strange mechanics may be involved with their parses. There are simply too many unknown factors involved. Within any raid team, everyone's DPS should create a neat average, and every player should be within an acceptable range of that margin.
When faced with a lack of progression to the point that you evaluate keeping a player a part of the team or not, always be direct with the player. Pull him aside before or after a raid -- preferably the latter -- and express your concerns. Be nonconfrontational and allow him to defend himself, but by the same token be firm. Don't tell him that he sucks or that he's bad; just say that his DPS isn't up to the average of the rest of the raid and that he has a time frame of X to correct it or his spot is going to be taken by another player.
Set realistic goals -- I would give a player two weeks -- and for the love of Elune, stick to them. If you tell a player that he has two weeks to shape up, then he has two weeks to shape up -- not three, not four. Two.
Dealing with excuses
Now, when going into this conversation, there are a few things that you need to be ready for. First is that he will certainly defend himself. Some people are more passive, but I have yet to see a single player who just says, "Yes, my DPS is unacceptable; I'll fix it." Players are going to defend themselves, but you cannot allow yourself to buy into these arguments. Unacceptable DPS is purely that -- unacceptable. There are no excuses for it. Here are the more common lines you'll hear.
It isn't me -- it's my spec! More commonly, this comes from hybrid classes, but pures use it just as much these days. In every single example, it is nothing short of bollocks. In this day and age of WoW, there is not a single spec that I have seen whose simulated DPS is so poor that a player using it is going to parse so far below the normal average of a raid. As an example, the current destruction warlock spec simulates as being around 3,000 DPS less than affliction. This is in perfect conditions with people performing perfectly. This is not going to happen within your raid. The average and even the good player is not going to change his spec from destruction to affliction and suddenly see a 3,000 jump in DPS. It doesn't work that way.
For starters, no player performs to the absolute best of his spec's ability. None. You can simulate until the sun burns out; it just doesn't matter. Encounter mechanics alone will prevent a player from performing at the most optimal level, and from there it only goes downhill as he starts to make minor mistakes. Each mistake in a rotation leads to far more DPS loss than anything else. The little, inconsequential mistakes that most players make in their rotation during an encounter account for all of the damage that their talents give them combined. A perfect player could have spent no talent points and perform better than a fully specced player who only makes a few mistakes.
Spec never has been and never will be an acceptable excuse for poor DPS performance. Players of all types have been proving that since vanilla. A fantastic player can take any spec and beat the pants off of an average player, no matter what spec that he plays.
Further, in many cases, DPS is all about skill cap. Skill caps used to be the big buzzword back during a portion of Wrath, but it is a concept that has rather died off since then. Essentially, not all specs are created equal. While there may be a 3,000 DPS difference between a perfectly played affliction and destruction warlock, due to skill cap differences, there would probably only be a 1,000 or less DPS difference between average players of the same time. Skill influences each spec differently, and it's a huge scaling factor that many simulators just don't take into account. Precise timing accounts for more DPS for one spec than it does for others.
Lastly, if you know that you spec is holding you back so much to as risk your position within a raid, why play it? I fully understand that players want to play the spec that's the most fun to them -- hell, I'm a vanilla balance druid, and those didn't even exist back then -- yet there just has to be somewhere that you draw the line. At some point, a player has to say to himself, "I love this spec, but it just isn't viable at this point in the game." It sucks, and we all hate it, but there are just times where you have to deal with.

It may seem crass and rude, but raid leaders have to understand that they can't always worry about the feelings of a single player; they have an entire raid of players, plus people on standby, that they have to think of too. If you have reached a point where you just can't down a boss because your DPS isn't there and you have a raider who is refusing something so basic as to switch specs for a single fight where that spec offers such a huge benefit, then it is time for that player to go.
Frankly, I do not even see how someone can justify using this excuse. This might be horrible of me, but it is true. In the day where two dailies can pay for a respec, when there are dual specs, how can any raider sit back and be content with themselves to say, "I know that going spec X for this one encounter would be a massive help to my raid, but I only play as spec Y, and I'm not changing specs." Make no mistake, that is exactly what these people are saying. Sure, I'm certain they word it a more flattering light, but that's the general meaning.
I'd be fine if only I had Item X. During my time as a raid leader, I got this retort quite often, and it is the only one that has ever given my any pause. Itemization is something of a double-edged sword in many cases. At the surface, this excuse has no foundation, but there are rare exceptions.
First and foremost, itemization almost never makes or breaks a spec -- it always comes down to the player -- yet there are times that certain items can have a huge impact on a player's performance. As an example, the current elemental shaman raiding tier offers a huge damage bonus. The old balance druid tier was similar, with the four-piece being worth thousands of DPS.
Any time that I hear this used, my first counter-question is to ask why they don't yet have the item. Drops can be hell, I will not deny that at all, yet by the same token, it should be equally bad to everyone involved. You shouldn't even be in a position where a single mage or a single warlock is far behind the pack because of a single item drop. Gearing simply isn't that important. No matter how much DPS an item is worth to a player, it just isn't going to account for their performing well below average. If anything, you're now in a situation where a player is underperforming and they want to use an item to mask that.
What happens when you reach the next raiding tier and that item isn't as overpowered as it once was? As they slide back down to the point that they're no longer holding their own, what do you do? Certain items can hold a vast impact on damage in very specific situations, but it will never do more than mask the failings of a player who isn't performing at the same level as the rest of the raid. In these situations, the player should likely be average without and pushing the top of the pack with it.
You can't be everyone's friend
I know that most of this can seem very harsh, but you have to understand the position that raid leaders are put in when raids stop making progression. All of this content is designed so that it can be done; when you can't do it, you really have to look at why. Most every encounter created relies upon the DPS far more than any other role. Low DPS can cause trickling issues in the raid that can make it appear as though you have a different issue, but the truth is plain.
As a raid leader, you can't always be everyone's friend; there are going to be times when you have to be the bad guy. Having a DPSer who is lagging behind the rest of the pack is an issue that effects the raid as a whole, and it's your job to make sure that it is corrected. These players have to be confronted, and while the thought may seem unappetizing, it's a part of the job that you must face.
Be direct; be firm. Tell the player in question the issue, offer to work with him, give him a chance to improve his performance, but don't buy into what he's selling. Players hate being called out, as it were (and who wouldn't?), yet it must be done. Do it, and be prepared for their fast talk to get out. Harsh as it seems, they are but one player; you've got nine or 24 others to look out for as well.
Ready Check shares all the strategies and inside information you need to take your raiding to the next level. Be sure to look up our strategy guides to Cataclysm's 5-man instances, and for more healer-centric advice, visit Raid Rx.
Filed under: Raiding, Ready Check (Raiding)
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
Tyler Caraway Aug 26th 2011 2:51PM
Spec and class are entirely different concepts. I would never really expect for a druid or a shaman to switch between balance to feral or enhancement to elemental. The gearing is just far too different. In cases where melee or ranged are weak, it wouldn't really be fair to get after a hybrid simply because that's the role that they fill.
However, when a mage says to me, "It's not me, Fire just isn't strong on this encounter." Then why are you playing as Fire? Go Frost or Arcane instead.
The reality of the matter is, no one is really going to pressure a player based upon on single encounter unless you've reached really dire straights on it. But if a player consistently has low DPS on every encounter every week, then it isn't the spec, it's them. And if it is their spec, then why won't they change it?
This is a game, it is meant to be enjoyable, and players should play which spec they wish; and they can do that when it doesn't hinder the rest of the raid. Once content is on farm, sure, they can switch, they can play it while solo or running dungeons or doing PvP, but if being in a certain spec is actually the direct cause of their poor raiding performance, then they have no business playing that spec in a raid.
As per items -- weapons can make a significant difference, but weapon distribution should be averaged throughout your raid. A warrior going from a T11 weapon to a T12 weapon isn't suddenly going to be doing thousands of DPS more than another warrior that's still using a T11 weapon.
Boobah Aug 26th 2011 3:02PM
"bad luck with weapon drops can seriously dent the output of an otherwise great melee or hunter DPS"
You say this as if weapon quality isn't absurdly important for casters, too, which it is. The spell power on caster weapons has pretty much the exact same impact on caster DPS as the weapon damage on a physical DPS.
Angus Aug 26th 2011 3:37PM
@Boobah: there is a difference
An enhance shaman has a VERY strict weapon list. For some reason Blizzard has seen fit to ignore them again. The craftable weapons from molten front have 0 for them. There is a sword there tho. Had it been an axe, 2 classes could have used it. AND they made a dagger.
The fists from BWD suck. There is only 1 boss dropping one in FL and the lace of fist weapons or maces or even axes is pathetic.
Any spellcaster can pick up something okay at least NEAR the iLevel crafted. But most melee need that extra damage and weapon speeds to get the most out of their weapons. Casters don't have the extra stats to worry about.
almoderate Aug 27th 2011 2:02PM
@DeathPaladin While I'd consider someone who dies to mechanics or threat early on to still be bad in general, you are correct in saying that you should "confirm that a bad DPS really is bad DPS. This goes back to Tyler's comment about using meters incorrectly."
I actually had to deal with this very situation a few weeks ago. Our raid leader had changed my role in various fights so that I was helping the group but at a significant loss of DPS to me. I'm a shadow priest, and for weeks I'd been at the top or in the top 5 on their meters. Then on Rhyolith I was asked to dps the boss instead of adds. Of course my dps tanked for obvious reasons. I wasn't being sent up for Alysrazor, which of course put me further down from those who were. I was soaking on Beth Heroic, which gave me little time to dps at all (and the raid leader even stated to me that he didn't expect me to). On Shannox I was asked to do Smite dps to help fill in the gaps for the healers when we were short. That was when a couple of the dps decided it was time to call me out on my low dps-- in raid chat.
So I ignored the RL's assignments for me, followed the strats to give me the highest dps, blew the third spot on the meters and beat them both. Of course, the boss didn't go down, but meters was what was important to them, after all. (Fortunately for me, the RL knew what was up and was well aware that I was about to wipe the raid to prove a point.)
So yeah... Consider the bigger picture when asking whether or not someone is doing acceptable dps.
Vjax Aug 26th 2011 9:22AM
Great Article, I hope the next one is on Healers, hint hint hint :-)
michaelcwright1 Aug 26th 2011 9:29AM
Our spriest was low. He sent me an in game mail stating his awareness of his low dps and he was gonna sit from the raid until he could improve.
This guy will have a spot on my team always! Players who are aware of their shortfalls and willing to admit it without 'the talk' are quality people in my book.
michaeleaves82 Aug 26th 2011 10:01AM
This: "Set realistic goals -- [...] -- and for the love of Elune, stick to them.".
The most important part of this if the talk doesn't come to a successful dps increase, is backing up the promise/threat. If a raid leader or even a guild master doesn't know how to let someone go / inform them they are no longer a part of the raid team, then they need to find an officer within the guild whos able to do that. I learned so much of this game in helping people on their specs, but when it came down to it people have to have a desire of being on top of the meters. I've dealt with raid leaders and gm's who didnt want to be the bad guy, so they came to me since I recruited the players. All new recruits got the message real quick, when the recruiter becomes the trainer...its only one step away from the trainer becoming the executioner.
rjhegedus Aug 26th 2011 10:07AM
How do you deal with the Low DPSer when it is the Guild Master? We are running into that problem, and have already confronted him about it. Last night, in a series of recent antics, stormed out of the game after we had someone in his spot for the trash when he was late to the raid.
Obviously Gquitting is an option, but we (the officers & raid team) have put so much blood, sweat and tears into this guild that it would be a shame to just leave. Any advice from anyone running into a similar issue?
g Aug 26th 2011 10:22AM
I had to deal with a GL that wasn't living up to expectations a while back. All of the core raiders and officers met and decided that if the GL didn't step down we would all leave and form a new guild. In our case the GL decided to hand over control of the guild to somebody else rather than have pretty much everybody leave, but you need to be willing to accept that in your case you may end up having to start fresh.
Badgelooter Aug 26th 2011 10:37AM
I've had this, but with a healer. Her excuses:
1) I'm dealing with whispers the entire raid, I can't help it.
2) I have to raid lead and make sure everyone else is doing their job.
If the GM is going to be a raider, he/she needs to set hard limits about communication that can happen during a raid. If guildies don't get that their problem can't wait a few minutes or hours until the raid is over, they need to go somewhere else. We instituted a "don't whisper me unless you've mailed me" rule for things that weren't emergencies (and let's face it, what in WoW is really an emergency?) which cut down on officers being harassed during raids. Raid time is for raiding. If you're not raiding, that's fine. We are, so leave us alone for a bit and we'll handle your drama in a moment.
If it's a "I'm trying to raid lead" problem, offer to take care of it for him/her. Some people can't watch the meters, the boss, the ground, and the rest of the raid and still maintain their rotation. There's a lot going on. We have a heal lead, a DPS lead, and the tanks pretty much take care of themselves. Being in a group with personal accountability is the best answer here. Having people who are willing to say, "That was me, I stood in X" saves time trying to parse out what went wrong between pulls.
If it's a lack of knowledge (rotations, gearing, etc.) then you can either babystep them through by doing the research yourself, or find out who a good player from that class and spec is and suggest your GM contact them. I know it's not perfect, but when we're evaluating a new member for our raid team, we plug them into askmrrobot.com and see if they're even close to where they need to be with gems, enchants, and reforges. It's a quick and not always accurate tool, but like a Gearscore addon, it can give you an idea if that person is in the ballpark.
rjhegedus Aug 26th 2011 10:56AM
@g & @badgelooter: Unfortunately we, the officers, end up doing most of the raid leading. The GL just acts as more of a time keeper, so his responsibilities are definitely not an excuse. I think I was looking for a magic wand to fix the situation, but I am sure you are right; a hard stance of give us the keys or we will gtfo is warranted at this point.
Thx for the input.
Badgelooter Aug 26th 2011 2:47PM
I don't know if it's time to throw up your hands yet. Have you tried the soft-sell? I've had this work before:
Start an alt of whatever class your problem player has. Get to level 15ish, then whisper them, "Hey, I was looking at your *spec/gear/rotation* for some tips, and then I saw this article on *pick your resource* and they suggested doing *something else.* I was wondering if you could tell me how you've found your way works? I'm all for trying new things, but I don't understand why they say to do things that way."
Or the old, I accidentally cut some of these gems, and it turns out they're not that great for me. I read where your class might use them better. Want a great deal?
Might turn them on to something they're doing/not doing that solves their issue. The disadvantage is you'll have to do a bit of homework and may be out some gold. The advantage is you're not calling them an idiot, you're calling someone else an idiot and making them feel like you think they have the superior knowledge.
Worked for me on a few occasions, but obviously YMMV. Good luck, and remember, holding back 9/24 people in order to placate one isn't fair to the 9/24. They commit their time and energy to progression, and everyone owes it to each other to perform as well as they can.
Jack Mynock Aug 26th 2011 6:31PM
In particular I find it's very hard to raid lead and heal at the same time. I would suggest that your RL delegate some of his/her responsibility if he/she is also a healer.
Rai Aug 26th 2011 10:13AM
You've hit the nail on the head here. Brilliant article.
Reading it makes me feel as if I should be a more strict raid leader...
paulmewis Aug 26th 2011 10:14AM
I'm wondering how one can measure improvement, or general shortcomings. I'd hate to put ppl in front of a raid dummy, because I don't think that's a good indicator on their raid performance.
Most of the failures aren't dps issues, generally. But failure to understand boss mechanics. I'd hate to use last tiers bosses as examples, unfortunately thats all I've got experience with atm.
Stackup, then spread out mechanics always seem have one or two members miles away. Chimmy is good example of this. And twin dragons. See so many ppl die to Valiona's breath attack because they'd positioned themselves away from the boss was confusing to me. The dispell point for blackout was her tail, so they'd be within spitting distance of the boss. And ppl standing in the middle of nowhere was a strange for chimmy's feud. Do they not see the rest of us stacking up. Mrrfll.
Another thing thats always is good is to see how ppl died. Bad RNG can kill players of good skill. Some deaths are partly faultless, being 0.5 secs slower then some ppl has gotten me killed before. Using twin dragons again, as a ranged dps we'd move clockwise around theralion whilst stacked up to avoid his fabulous flames. However I was a fraction slow one fabulous flames and a twilight meteor hit me. Sadly only on person was nearby for the damage and one tick from fabulous flames too many did me in.
Most hilarious deaths are mainly the spriests in the raid. Suiciding himself on chimmy was a /facepalm moment. He stated he was meaning to reapply SW:P in the middle of the fight (=S) and used the wrong ability. Which was just as confusing to all involved. Until we noted his Mind Spiking in mid fight... blagh.
Nina Katarina Aug 26th 2011 10:27AM
Many of those sorts of failures can be ameliorated by planning, communication and practice. If you know someone is going to be late to stack up, put them somewhere that they don't have far to run to the stack point, or make them the stack point. For our learning raid on V&T, we placed five raid markers along the places where the ranged were supposed to be, then called it out in vent (go to blue... go to green... go to red...) and we put our most-likely-to-turret healer in with the melee stack.
With Chimaeron, it's nice because you can tell people precisely where to stand before you wake up the boss. You don't have that luxury with many encounters, but raid markers can give you a boost in that direction. Also, there are often nice empty areas, once you've cleared trash, where you can practice movement for various phases. I wish my raid leader would use that sort of thing more often - every time we do a practice movement before a pull we seem to get exponentially smoother in the next run.
Khamul Aug 26th 2011 10:25AM
"A perfect player could have spent no talent points and perform better than a fully specced player who only makes a few mistakes."
Completely misleading no? I'd like to see a dps with no talent points spent, take one that even has a clue as to what they're doing with said points spent.
Lets just take Muti rogues as an example.
From your first Talent Point into the tree you get.
Mutilate, +20% Deadly Proc Rate, +50% Instant Proc Rate, +20 Energy w/daggers, and +28% increased poison damage(Inceases with Mastery).
And that's all for your first talent point into the tree. Then add in increased Crit, Crit Damage, More poison damage, Vendetta, Overkill, Cut to the Chase, etc.
A rogue with no spec has -NO- chance of even coming close, even if executed perfectly.
Just my two cents.
paulmewis Aug 26th 2011 10:48AM
I agree with you totally here. I can imagine a skilled player beating a bad with no talent points. I.e some autoattacking, i'll use 1 or 2 abilities on cooldown dunce. But not the average raiding player.
Narlic Aug 26th 2011 11:00AM
I'm certain that comment was meant as hyperbole, but yes it's definitely silly. No talent points means the character can't do much of anything. It's a terrible exaggeration :)
Ikillclothys Aug 26th 2011 10:24AM
A couple of points. Not everyone can be the best. By definition, there can only be one. Secondly, there has to be a top AND a BOTTOM of the DPS meter. It is VERY unlikely (although not improbable) that EVERYONE has the exact same DPS. While I agree, that when someone is doing less than say 75% of the average, or is way below the next worse, then they need to be talked to. But you also need to consider if your doing the raid for world first or for fun. Also, there are intangibles. Say, the poor DPS of a Shaman who has the wherewithal to recognize that the healer is in a bad situation, chunks out a coupla heals until the healer can recover and then resumes DPSing. Even though DPS is easy to measure, it shouldn't be the only thing you rely on.