Breakfast Topic: Raid Finder, take me away ...
by George Tipton 
Aug 28th 2011 at 8:00AM
The introduction of the Raid Finder in patch 4.3 probably means little to players who raid on a weekly basis with their guild. You get on at a predesignated time and attend the raid. Sure, it might be great for alts or doing older content, but for those of us who have stuck with our old guilds, trying in vain to grab at embersilk tatters, it could be a real guild-saver.
I have been running a guild that re-formed at the beginning of Cataclysm. I have watched players leave by the score to join higher-level guilds. They want in for the perks and the mere chance that they may be selected to be an alternate for heroic or new content, even if it's only once a week. Given our shifting playerbase, we have not been able to hold on to a full team that is raiding consistently. Our ability to progress through content has suffered. It seems most of the time our new members either don't have the time to raid or have no experience and very little willingness to put in the time to learn.
So what does the Raid Finder mean for us? The way I see it in my wildest dreams is -- autopilot.
Guild message of the day: Ladies and gentlemen, please meet up on Sunday evening to join a raid together via the Raid Finder. Study fights. I'll bring cauldrons and feasts.
For my guild, the Raid Finder could mean that the guild stays intact because the leadership is relieved of some of the stress of keeping raids going on a weekly basis. What does it mean for your hardcore raiding guild? Easier time pugging spots? What about other casual guilds? What do you think?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Aceman67 Aug 28th 2011 8:05AM
I can finally raid on my time. My schedule with work prevents me from raiding with my guild (much to the chagrin of my GM, who doesn't like not having his best geared healer with him).
I want this feature so bad it hurts. Seriously, I think I pulled something.
xenothaulus Aug 28th 2011 8:11AM
I've wanted a feature like this for years. Raiding has always felt too much like a job. Now I can raid on my own time, not on a set schedule.
Naraxis Aug 28th 2011 9:23AM
before you get too excited i'd like to tell you what i think will happen. Now, don't get me wrong i really REALLY want this raid finder thing to work and be good. However, my gut says that it wont be. Several things need to happen for the raid finder to be good and a viable option. First, there needs to be some sort of 5 minute or so trial for whatever role you selected that proves that you actually CAN fulfill the role. Such as a dps smacking a training dummy while dodging fire and other sorts of aoe with a minimum dps requirement in order to queue, or a healer having to keep a mock raid alive for a set amount of time, or a tank having to keep the boss and adds off of his mock dps so they can take the boss down. Second, there needs to be some sort of player rating system that doesn't take troll votes into account. It needs to rate a player's capability in a specific role in something like 1 to 10 stars. If your stars are around 8 for a specific role it'll group you with other people who are around 8 for the rest of the raid (this may need refining quite a bit) or do something like arena ranking except raid ranking, giving you points for successful boss kills and subtracting points after a certain threshold for failing to down a boss. Third, The raid finder will have to allow queueing for specific bosses inside the raid. One instance of the raid finder will consist of the first boss of a raid then its over the players get their rewards and may leave. Or they can remain and queue for the next boss. The second boss will open up on the raid finder after the first is defeated and so on. This is to prevent players queueing for the final boss of a raid first and saying "I KILLDZED DETHWANG!!1!1!!!" when its the first boss they've ever killed in their lives and they were lucky their raid didn't boot them for being bad. Whew, sorry for the wall of text but thats my 2 cents.
blazenor Aug 28th 2011 9:28AM
Is the raid put together within your own realm or with others?
Arrohon Aug 28th 2011 10:42AM
The problem with your "raid rating" is that raiding is a group effort. You could be an awesome healer but the tank keeps standing in stuff so you continue to wipe. All 10-25 people then lose raid rating because of that one stupid tank.
Sidfish Aug 28th 2011 3:12PM
If you have an odd schedule yet still want to raid I understand your plight. Unfortunately I don't think this is the answer. It will work for old content and perhaps the previously nerfed tiers but if you're expecting progression on current content I assure you it will lead to disappointment. Raids require far more coordination and awareness than heroics and I see no reason why the raid finder would be immune to the problems that plague the dungeon finder. In fact, it will only exacerbate them. If you think the same terrible players you encounter in the DF will be able to take direction, coordinate cd's, and put out enough dps, then you're a more optimistic person than I am.
Maybe another raid difficulty is the answer. Compromising the current tier to cater to pugs is not.
Skyrei Aug 28th 2011 9:02PM
I seriously hope Raid Finder is more then just a 10 man version of LFG.
I hope there will be check boxes galore for the specific class and spec you're looking for.
I hope there will be some sort of ILVL requirement in the raid finder, either set it place by blizzard or to be able to set per raid. I know people would abuse that like gearscore, but there is such a thing as not geared enough!
And.. if it does pull people from all servers... i hope there is a check box to allow it to only pull from yours. (I can dream)
*crosses fingers*
Gendou Aug 28th 2011 8:06AM
We have a split-coast casual guild largely made up of adults with families.
Because of this, raid attendance can be a significant issue.
The ability to fill spots via the raid finder rather than spamming /trade could be a godsend.
Calicia Aug 28th 2011 8:10AM
I'm in a good guild, but my raid group fell apart due to RL issues. The sad thing is that this happened shortly after we all joined this guild so I don't have much cred here and I don't want to be that guy who tries to bump someone from their spot. The guild is thinking about starting a new team so I'm holding out hope on that front, but in the mean time I've been sidelined for almost a month.
I'm hoping the RF will help me through this patch.
Ves Aug 28th 2011 8:18AM
I imagine it will be a lot like the Dungeon Finder.
Raid pops.
Nobody says anything beyond the odd "Kings" or "I'll manage Boss Mechanic X".
Run through killing stuff.
Claim loot.
Leave.
Maybe if it lets you run old world instances it will be more fun as half the raid wallows in nostalgia, while the other half who started playing last year and is only here to mog their T6 is wondering why everyone is yelling "YOU WILL SHOW THE PROPER RESPECT!".
Ah, the days of my youth. Like the scent of fresh lemon.
Ves Aug 28th 2011 8:57AM
If that ends up as what's happening most of the time Blizzard will just hotfix it so "Luck of the Draw" provided by the raid finder now increases attributes by 50% per stack or something.
Orrdeath Aug 28th 2011 9:39AM
Tyler, I agree. In a world where a random heroic is difficult because people like to stand in stuff and not cc. And be as racist as they like, and there are no repercussions. I predict that this raid finder is doomed to fail. Not because people don't want it, but because in a random group you can be the biggest douch and nothing will happen. We have players in our raid that need to be reminded not to stand in bad stuff and get on interrupts better. If I tell a guy in a random raid to get on his interrupt, he will A: tell me to piss off, B: not listen, C: leave raid. Or maybe if you get lucky do what you asked.
I forsee raid content being Made easier so it can become pugable, say hello to more voa, BH raids
urf Aug 28th 2011 10:17AM
I'm hoping that to prevent these scenarios, Blizz will give lots of *options* for the matchmaking.
A cross-realm raid finder needs to be more sophisticated than the casual "pop me in the 1st random 5-man available" queueing tool, otherwise it could become just an embarrassing flop.
It has to have something like more loot options. Do you want a raid that has master looting on, or would you prefer need/greed? I'm curious of how the system will prevent all the crazy ninjaism, because it's, you know, cross-realm.
Ignoring bad players works, in some sense of the word, but preferring friends (people you have added in a 'cool guy' list) over strangers could probably make a big difference.
How about an ability to require some specific achievement or average equipped ilvl? The game will ofc already have gear limits to join, but maybe more options would make the system better. This could prevent you from getting anyone to raid with you if you set your standards too high, but then you could just adjust them.
You could be in a situation where you need only specific classes; having some checkboxes that say something like "LF resto shammy and a survival hunter" instead of letting the matchmaking decide for you could be very necessary for a successful raid. What if you can't get a resto shammy, will something else do? The system will probably also need a "Only Class Runs" option (badly!).
So this could get quite complicated, I'm already imagining a big wide panel full of different widgets and checkboxes. Blizzard doesn't usually like to scare people with complicated things, but then again, raiders are the advanced (and complicated!) part of the player base. Fingers crossed.
Sqtsquish Aug 28th 2011 1:32PM
Call me whatever you like but with the current state of nerfs of tier 11 content, anything beyond a 15% luck of the draw buff in addition to the fact that the average itemlevel is significantly higher, is significant overkill. Being physically able to kill a boss one thing, but blowing on something hard should not kill a boss from the previous patch without at least knowing the fight mechanics.
I have nothing against gear being commonplace or people downing bosses, it is the quality of the fight that is the issue. Never should a raid be easy as a 5 man and though I have no proof of this, but I doubt the raid finder would be successful without first nerfing the content to the point that the least capable people that play the game can be allowed to down bosses with brute force alone.
Noyou Aug 28th 2011 1:36PM
The thing is there will be three types of players.
1. Those who think they are God's gift to DPS/healing/tanking. You know the ones who can't understand why everyone sucks. They will want the raid to be done in less than an hour.
2. The totally curious player who will try anything.
3. Legitimate geared/knowledgeable folks who are in small guilds or don't have the 10-12 hours a week to dedicate to serious raiding.
Unfortunately types 1-2 will stop the raid, many times before it gets too far. I do like this move by blizzard. It's probably needed. Hopefully it works with Real ID. Good luck to all those who try it out.
Sqtsquish Aug 28th 2011 1:47PM
@ noyou
- you forget the 4th type of player: the one that has no interest in anyone else in the raid and will do whatever it takes to get someone else carry their share of the load.
With a tool like this, people will expect to be carried regardless of their effort, much like in a 5 man, because regardless of how nice the tool is- finding people for the spots is difficult, and you can only reasonably kick so many people from group.
Not saying only the best people should be able to raid- but that people that are going to leech off the rest of the group are the biggest issue in grouping save for the outright mean, angry, and rude people. I don't mind working with undergeared people willing to cooperate.IMO it is the jerks and the people who adamantly refuse to cooperate that make grouping in WoW so painful.
SamLowry Aug 30th 2011 2:34PM
Master looter? If you're at all worried about that then please join a raiding guild. But if the possibility of choosing a master looter is even available in the Raid Finder then I will not participate. Far too often I had the highest roll for an item but still wasn't given it because I wasn't the Master Looter's best bud.
JR0ck Aug 28th 2011 8:23AM
I think this is incredible. I hate that Blizzard decided to start doing incredible things that should have been there years ago after I decided to end my sub once and for all, but I'm happy for everyone who is still playing.
Krz Aug 28th 2011 10:40AM
Moonwhile, I will enjoy every second of it :P
un0numer0 Aug 28th 2011 8:35AM
I think it'll be a godsend. My casual guild had, for weeks, had the problem of having to pug the last 1-3 spots. I myself was a pugger who on a whim decided to help out a friend of mine and then subsequently after several weeks of raiding with the guild, decided to join.
Being a casual guild who'se "core" team of about 13-14 players comprising mostly of married couples with children, working adults and college students, attendance can range wildly from "we need to scramble to fill those last 3 spots, and all with ranged because we have no ranged" to "we have 5 people extra online and ready but only 2 spots left open".
This will lead to conflict in the future as either there is almost enough people to form a 2nd 10man (but not enough tanks or healers for it. Unless some of the "first" team goes on an alt, which is impossible because the runs would have to happen at the same time) to "we have 2 stubborn spots which need filling and since its our second day in Firelands, no one from trade/friends of friends wants to come.
Thats why I thnk it'll be a godsend.
The people left out in the cold (some of whom have the gear and experience) can form a 2nd 10man and fill stubborn spots with the raid finder. If more than half of them are guildies, they can fill spots and still feel like it is a "guild run".
If there are less than half, perhaps some people in the "first" team such as myself can volunteer to heal/tank/dps the 2nd group to even out the guild vs pug numbers and my GM will feel comfortable (despite not liking trade pugs) taking in a couple of pugs so we essentially have 2 "mostly" guild runs going simultaneously on weekends where suddenly "almost everyone" shows up without leaving the newer but Firelands ready people feeling consistently left out of raids.