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9-02-2011 @ 2:38PM
Would you expand on why you feel the threat changes were misguided? Or was there another article where you went into that more? I have nothing but good feelings about the threat change because threat at best was something that way mildly interesting, and at worst a reason that made the game not fun to play at all (threat mechanics really were more dominated by the actions your teammates took rather than the encounter itself, and in many cases you felt like you were playing against your party).Changing that gameplay mechanic to something that looks to be a lot more fun in most aspects of the game and doesn't go against the grain of player behavior seems like a win/win decision on blizz's part. Obviously we'll have to see how it all pans out when the details are in place.
9-02-2011 @ 2:45PM
Sure, I'd be glad to. Essentially I felt that threat was a compelling part of the tank gameplay "package" that gave me a tangible benchmark to achieve outside of just staying alive. I found it enjoyable to provide a decent threat ceiling for the raid and it made me feel like I was contributing more to the raid than just being punched in the face. I also feel like there could have been better changes made to threat outside of jacking modifiers up to 500% and leaving it at that. For example, the proffered early boost to Vengeance generation that we'll be seeing soon would have been a more than adequate fix in my opinion, just by itself. It'd allow you to not have to struggle to get that early lead -- or fight against RNG in that regard -- and then make holding threat then on out not as difficult if you have a rough first thirty seconds. It would still require you to pay attention to threat so that if you slack in your rotation your teammates would catch up, but take out the frustration usually baked into the first thirty seconds when things can go so wrong.
9-02-2011 @ 3:01PM
Well, the change was in a hotfix, and it may not have been possible to do the vengeance thing without a fullscale patch. I like the change, as it lets me not worry about it at all (before I had to worry if our mage goes all out in the first 10s). But other than that, it doesn't change anything- at least, for me.
9-02-2011 @ 3:11PM
You have to always think of the two things married, they're replacing the threat ceiling gameplay with active mitigation gameplay. Taken by itself, yeah the threat change has made tanking more boring, but it can't be analysed simply like that, they needed to take something out to replace it with something better. I wouldn't want to have to still worry about multi target threat while managing more complex active mitigation mechanics.Threat has become passe, especially in light of such ingrained player behavior fighting against it (both from a tank side and a DPS side). Its time to replace it with something more compelling.
9-02-2011 @ 3:52PM
I respectfully disagree with Matt on the threat changes....because now I don't get kicked out of troll heroics because of my gear (hello we have to run them to get better gear) compared to decked out FL gear folks just farming VP.However I feel this definitely more due to bad and too fast inflated scaling on gear.In short....Im fine with the change....but Blizzard created the problem (as well as DPSers who just can't wait 2-4 seconds before nuking the hell out of everything).
9-02-2011 @ 5:20PM
I'm not a fan of the threat change. Before you could usually tell a good tank from a bad tank based on threat to some extent. Do tehy know the rotation? Are they using the right seal ( Which half the time they are not), are they spec'd correct? Now, nothing distinguishes a good tank with 50 to 60k threat before the nerf to a tank doing 30k since it doesn't matter.Aside from gear levels, threat hasn't been a problem in all of cata, but I have run into some not stellar tanks with good gear doing horrible threat and generally bad play.Ret Paladins, Frost DKs, and mages for me are always the worst offenders in pulling agro at the beginning of a fight, but popping divine plea, judging/shielding on the way in usually was enough to manage once vengeance kicks in.
9-02-2011 @ 6:47PM
@fufu are you reading this thread at all??? You can't look at simply the threat removal and say "I'm not a fan of the threat change", the threat removal was to make way for the active mitigation changes that are yet to come you can't have both because then it would be too busy. Could the devs have waited till they'd finish their active mitigations changes first before neutering threat? Sure, but obviously they felt it was something important to get in sooner rather than later and the pros of making PUGs with bad or apathetic DPS (or just plain out geared DPS as the example randy made) more tolerable were more important than the con of temporarily losing the joy of providing a great threat ceiling for your raid. Ghostcrawler is essentially saying "Threat has problems, and we feel that its not a compelling mechanic anymore, we're replacing it with something else". Threat was fun (where it was fun) because it was our only significant mechanic. They're replacing that with something they feel will be more fun, more of the time, and be more compelling along the lines we choose to be tanks for. I for sure chose to tank for the thrill of staying alive against the odds of massive foes, not for the thrill of allowing DPS to start earlier or sustain throughput longer. I took pride in the later, but only because it was the only things to truly take pride in as a tank in this game.You will be able to tell a good tank from a bad tank when they put in the active mitigation mechanics. The good tanks will still be alive, be able to pull more and have their healers sustain mana for longer.
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