The Care and Feeding of Warriors: PVP with a PVE spec -- fury
Every week, WoW Insider brings you The Care and Feeding of Warriors, the column dedicated to arms, fury and protection warriors. Despite repeated blows to the head from dragons, demons, Old Gods and whatever that thing over there was, Matthew Rossi will be your host.
Last week we talked about transmogrification, and although I have more I'd like to say about that, I have been promising to talk about PVP for a while now. And in fact, I do PVP quite a bit. The problem is, I PVP as either protection or fury. I do a lot of battlegrounds, I hit Tol Barad about once a day, and I do rated BGs fairly frequently. What have I learned from all this?
Why I prefer TG to SMF for PVP
To a degree, my PVP choices were made by my PVE choices; I have access to heroic weapons in PVE that are two-handers, while upgrading the Obsidium Cleaver would require a lot more work. Since I use my PVE spec for PvP and I use my PVE weapons (I can still manage 4,000 resilience with PVE weapons), it just makes sense for me to use a Titan's Grip build in PVP. I have, however, tried both out on days I don't raid, and I find that the burst potential of TG just works better for the style of PVP I've come to prefer. Even in Rated BGs where there's a 10-on-10 fight, you have a more controlled comp, and use Vent or Mumble to communicate, it's often easier to get in a couple of unguarded hits without being focused down. I personally find TG to be very well-designed at present for burst damage. This isn't to say that SMF is incapable of it; a Bloodsurge Slam hitting with both weapons for SMF can burst fairly high.
If I had two heroic Obsidium Cleavers or Season 10 PVP swords or axes, would I instead push SMF? Yes, if those were the best weapons I had. It's all about speccing to your strengths. I happen to have a heroic Zoid and Skullstealer, so that's usually what I use to PVP with, and so that's what I spec with.
Fury does two things fairly well in PVP. It's got good mobility with Intercept, Heroic Leap, and talents like Skirmisher and Heroic Fury to help make the most of that mobility, and it's got very solid burst damage. I still find Furious Attacks to be incredibly underwhelming, to the point that I'd much rather pick up Piercing Howl to keep uptime on kiters or Rude Interruption to reward me for keeping that pesky mage from casting that spell. (A 30-second duration on the RI damage boost means that even in a highly kite-intensive environment, it will be up long enough to get at least one cooldown chained up with it.) Even survival talents like Die by the Sword seem more attractive to me than a measly 10% healing debuff, especially in the world of Resilience.
What fury doesn't do as well as arms is provide that on-demand shutdown combined with raw damage. Arms warriors can use Blitz to stun two targets, hit Sweeping Strikes to put signficiant damage on both, and use Throwdown and Bladestorm to ruin at least one of those targeted players' days. Still, with both Hamstring and Piercing Howl, fury can pretty easily keep people more or less in range.
PVP gearing for the PVE player
To use fury as your PVP spec, especially using a PVE spec to do it, you need resilience. You absolutely need to get enough resilience to stay alive against casters who can and will hit you from range, well before you can get into their faces. I would aim for between 3,500 and 4,000 resilience, getting as close to 4,000 as possible. While resil could be stacked until you had 100% damage reduction in theory, since you can't reforge to it and it's only so much of any particular piece's item budget, I feel you're better off not wasting your time trying and just getting to 4,000. Resil also has DR as of patch 4.1, so once your damage reduction hits about 32% from resil it takes more and more to get it up higher. At 3,872 resilience, my damage reduction is at roughly 39%. After resilience, you're probably looking for crit, hit and then mastery, with mastery your weakest stat (better for TG than SMF, but still behind crit and hit).
PVP gear has never been eaiser to get. You can convert justice points to honor and pick up the ilevel 371 epics, or even convert your valor points to conquest (and the valor to conquest goes one to one, every point of valor you spend is a conquest point) and pick up the Ruthless set. In addition, Occu'thar also drops a variety of PVP gear. And frankly, Occu'thar's a pushover for a player with PVE experience. While it may not exactly be fair, it's a fact that you can come very close to 4,000 resilience without using PVP weapons at all, and those are generally the hardest things to get from points, giving PVE players who PVP a slightly unfair advantage that I suggest you take ruthless advantage of.
PVP talents for the PVE player
PVPing as a PVE spec fury is possible because of the change to talents made in Cataclysm. You can get pretty much every talent you'd want for your DPS spec and still have room for survival or mobility talents that can be very attractive both for intense PVE fights and the mass melee of PVP. It's also true that the increased emphasis on ranked BGs and world PVP zones like Tol Barad and Wintergrasp help because they remove the laser intensity and focus on comp that 2v2, 3v3 and even 5v5 arenas cause. With health pools higher both absolutely and relatively, and resilience reducing damage directly allowing crits to still serve a purpose, fury no longer has to accept Mortal Strike's absolute dominance and can display its own burst strength. It might be fair to say that fury does well in these situations entirely because warriors as a whole have lost some of their edge in PVP.
The once feared juggernaut in plate does not seem to terrify most classes anymore, and yes, it's sad. Warriors can still contribute in PVP, but certainly it's true that no warrior spec is anything like the kings of PVP nowadays. Still, I find fury enjoyable and even exciting, and that's without even talenting directly for the PVP game.
Next week, protection as a PVP spec.
At the center of the fury of battle stand the warriors: protection, arms and fury. Check out more strategies and tips especially for warriors, including Cataclysm 101 for DPS warriors, a guide to new reputation gear for warriors, and a look back at six years of warrior trends.
Last week we talked about transmogrification, and although I have more I'd like to say about that, I have been promising to talk about PVP for a while now. And in fact, I do PVP quite a bit. The problem is, I PVP as either protection or fury. I do a lot of battlegrounds, I hit Tol Barad about once a day, and I do rated BGs fairly frequently. What have I learned from all this?
- Fury is a surprisingly viable PVP spec. My raiding spec has room for mobility and versatility talents, so I don't even have to respec to PVP effectively. If I were a PVPer primarily instead of secondarily, I'd probably tweak my build for Furious Attacks, but I do fine without it.
- I prefer Titan's Grip to SMF for PVP use. I also raid with TG, but I've tried both and I just prefer being able to pop my cooldowns and throw a Bloodthirst/Raging Blow combo on someone after an intercept and get the burst potential of TG.
- Fury does lack some of the tools arms or protection can bring. If you've PVPed as arms lately, you'll know how addictive Charge/Throwdown/Bladestorm can be. Prot has a lot of tools for stunning, silencing, interrupting and otherwise hindering casters. Fury lacks these tools. If you're doing fury PVP, you're basically hoping to do as much damage as fast as possible.
- Doing as much damage as fast as possible is ludicrously fun. I'm going to be honest here: The reason I like fury PVP is because it's all or nothing. In an Arena setting, I expect I would just get burst down every time, but in the mad chaos of group PVP fury has the potential of doing sudden, savage damage to a single target or even a group, interrupt flag capture, hinder base turnover, and in general just be a gigantic prickly ball o'death at the worst possible time for the enemy.
Why I prefer TG to SMF for PVP
To a degree, my PVP choices were made by my PVE choices; I have access to heroic weapons in PVE that are two-handers, while upgrading the Obsidium Cleaver would require a lot more work. Since I use my PVE spec for PvP and I use my PVE weapons (I can still manage 4,000 resilience with PVE weapons), it just makes sense for me to use a Titan's Grip build in PVP. I have, however, tried both out on days I don't raid, and I find that the burst potential of TG just works better for the style of PVP I've come to prefer. Even in Rated BGs where there's a 10-on-10 fight, you have a more controlled comp, and use Vent or Mumble to communicate, it's often easier to get in a couple of unguarded hits without being focused down. I personally find TG to be very well-designed at present for burst damage. This isn't to say that SMF is incapable of it; a Bloodsurge Slam hitting with both weapons for SMF can burst fairly high.
If I had two heroic Obsidium Cleavers or Season 10 PVP swords or axes, would I instead push SMF? Yes, if those were the best weapons I had. It's all about speccing to your strengths. I happen to have a heroic Zoid and Skullstealer, so that's usually what I use to PVP with, and so that's what I spec with.
Fury does two things fairly well in PVP. It's got good mobility with Intercept, Heroic Leap, and talents like Skirmisher and Heroic Fury to help make the most of that mobility, and it's got very solid burst damage. I still find Furious Attacks to be incredibly underwhelming, to the point that I'd much rather pick up Piercing Howl to keep uptime on kiters or Rude Interruption to reward me for keeping that pesky mage from casting that spell. (A 30-second duration on the RI damage boost means that even in a highly kite-intensive environment, it will be up long enough to get at least one cooldown chained up with it.) Even survival talents like Die by the Sword seem more attractive to me than a measly 10% healing debuff, especially in the world of Resilience.
What fury doesn't do as well as arms is provide that on-demand shutdown combined with raw damage. Arms warriors can use Blitz to stun two targets, hit Sweeping Strikes to put signficiant damage on both, and use Throwdown and Bladestorm to ruin at least one of those targeted players' days. Still, with both Hamstring and Piercing Howl, fury can pretty easily keep people more or less in range.
PVP gearing for the PVE player
To use fury as your PVP spec, especially using a PVE spec to do it, you need resilience. You absolutely need to get enough resilience to stay alive against casters who can and will hit you from range, well before you can get into their faces. I would aim for between 3,500 and 4,000 resilience, getting as close to 4,000 as possible. While resil could be stacked until you had 100% damage reduction in theory, since you can't reforge to it and it's only so much of any particular piece's item budget, I feel you're better off not wasting your time trying and just getting to 4,000. Resil also has DR as of patch 4.1, so once your damage reduction hits about 32% from resil it takes more and more to get it up higher. At 3,872 resilience, my damage reduction is at roughly 39%. After resilience, you're probably looking for crit, hit and then mastery, with mastery your weakest stat (better for TG than SMF, but still behind crit and hit).
PVP gear has never been eaiser to get. You can convert justice points to honor and pick up the ilevel 371 epics, or even convert your valor points to conquest (and the valor to conquest goes one to one, every point of valor you spend is a conquest point) and pick up the Ruthless set. In addition, Occu'thar also drops a variety of PVP gear. And frankly, Occu'thar's a pushover for a player with PVE experience. While it may not exactly be fair, it's a fact that you can come very close to 4,000 resilience without using PVP weapons at all, and those are generally the hardest things to get from points, giving PVE players who PVP a slightly unfair advantage that I suggest you take ruthless advantage of.
PVP talents for the PVE player
PVPing as a PVE spec fury is possible because of the change to talents made in Cataclysm. You can get pretty much every talent you'd want for your DPS spec and still have room for survival or mobility talents that can be very attractive both for intense PVE fights and the mass melee of PVP. It's also true that the increased emphasis on ranked BGs and world PVP zones like Tol Barad and Wintergrasp help because they remove the laser intensity and focus on comp that 2v2, 3v3 and even 5v5 arenas cause. With health pools higher both absolutely and relatively, and resilience reducing damage directly allowing crits to still serve a purpose, fury no longer has to accept Mortal Strike's absolute dominance and can display its own burst strength. It might be fair to say that fury does well in these situations entirely because warriors as a whole have lost some of their edge in PVP.
The once feared juggernaut in plate does not seem to terrify most classes anymore, and yes, it's sad. Warriors can still contribute in PVP, but certainly it's true that no warrior spec is anything like the kings of PVP nowadays. Still, I find fury enjoyable and even exciting, and that's without even talenting directly for the PVP game.
Next week, protection as a PVP spec.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, PvP, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors, Cataclysm







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Kallix Sep 3rd 2011 4:37PM
I PvPed as Prot all the way through Wrath, and loved the control you had. Multiple charges, stuns, silences and spell reflect made for a very engaging fight. The idea of losing all those things and PvPing as Fury seemed ridiculous at the time.
When I went Fury main spec in Cata, I gace it a try, and was surprised at simply how fun just mashing buttons to kill people is. With Fury, it's all just about killing people as fast as possible, and it's a great way to PvP - you kill fast or you die fast.
Revnah Sep 3rd 2011 5:20PM
In the Game of Fury PvP, you win or you die! ;-)
Deathknighty Sep 3rd 2011 7:40PM
When you get a clash of classes, the storm of swords that is fury pvp makes a feast for crows. Also, something about prot tanks dancing with dragons.
Another day, another massacred joke. :P
lsprof4 Sep 3rd 2011 9:12PM
No worries. Just stick them with the pointy end and remember what we say to death, fury warriors...not today...
Revnah Sep 4th 2011 6:37AM
And never forget... Wintergrasp is coming.
Stonebeard Sep 3rd 2011 4:38PM
Great article. I also love PvP as fury; TG allows for some seriously show-stopping burst.
The main problem that I have run into is that most of our utilities require us to be out of Berserker stance, and I already feel rage-starved as it is. When I finally get enough Rage to through out my wicked combos, the bum is scrambling away for all he's worth, and I have to decide whether I run him down or lose a ton of Rage just to switch stances for Hamstring.
I am definitely a PvP noob; what do you fury pros do with your stances?
Kallix Sep 3rd 2011 7:23PM
I'm far from a Fury pro, but I'm pretty sure you can at least use hamstring in Berserker Stance.
Other than that though, I tend to just ignore my utility as Fury. Focus on nuking down individuals as fast as possible for the best results.
lsprof4 Sep 3rd 2011 9:12PM
I like being different, so I go Batttle Stance with a shield and two hander, charge and then wait for the right moment to hit my macro and switch to Berserker with both 2 handers and really lay on the damage.
lsprof4 Sep 3rd 2011 9:23PM
I also like being different spelling Battle with three t's sometimes...ugh
Anaughtybear Sep 3rd 2011 4:57PM
I've played Fury almost exclusively for about 7 years now, and I recently switched to Arms. What I've learned is that ANY spec from any class is surprisingly viable in PvP if you're geared for it. That's one of the reasons Blizzard has never been able to balance classes; they are comparing the best geared 1% of each class against each other. They weren't seeing the forest for the trees (I'm not singling out tree druids there).
Why do I not play Fury anymore? Being the red-headed step child of PvP since vanilla got a bit old. Also, Arms is simpler and more effective than Fury if everyone's gear is relatively equal. Being more effective makes you die less, and that is more fun.
razion Sep 3rd 2011 5:54PM
I too, started as Fury, and moved to Arms. I will disagree on the point that Arms is simpler than Fury. They require different skill sets for mastery--different people will play different specs better, but I would be lying if I said this was it. If I were to generalize, I would say that Arms has more to manage, but it has more utility. Whether this makes it harder or easier (and indeed, fun) is based on the skill set of the player, and how they can adapt to the play-style.
This is an issue in play-style--as some players do perform better with more utility and more to manage than a more simplistic play-style. I myself tend to perform better when I need to watch more. It keeps me focused more on the field and my enemies (taking in a broader picture) than my "simplistic" rotation, preventing tunnel-vision.
By way of perhaps poor comparison, a very good frost mage may not play well when he tries fire, but will continue to perform admirably as frost. A fire mage by extension can do well without that extra utility, and actually finds he is hindered by all the extra responsibility. In conclusion, I believe utility and control is a play-style--and so is one of the glass-cannon. It is up to the player to experiment and find which they can adapt better into, not just where they see the most success or even how easy or hard to manage ability priorities can be. In order to truly find where you belong, I would advise truly dipping into other classes that share a similar structure, and see how you perform.
marblex Sep 3rd 2011 5:14PM
A small peeve... but a thing is not "viable" unless it is capable of living. Therefore nothing in WOW, including any given spec is "viable."
Possible, tenable, plausible... these are all perfectly good ways to describe a talent spec. But ... "viable?" No.
Kolyarut Sep 3rd 2011 5:34PM
vi·a·ble
[vahy-uh-buhl]
adjective
1. capable of living.
2. Physiology .
a. physically fitted to live.
b. (of a fetus) having reached such a stage of development as to be capable of living, under normal conditions, outside the uterus.
3. Botany . able to live and grow.
4. vivid; real; stimulating, as to the intellect, imagination, or senses: a period of history that few teachers can make viable for students.
5. practicable; workable: a viable alternative.
6. having the ability to grow, expand, develop, etc.: a new and viable country.
Though to be honest, I'd suggest "capable of living" is a perfectly fine way of describing a successful WoW character, within the fictional context...
Bapo Sep 3rd 2011 5:42PM
He's using it in the "practicable; workable" way. So yes, it works.
Deathknighty Sep 3rd 2011 7:42PM
That looks to me like a pretty BIG peeve!
Stupid pedant!
Sleutel Sep 3rd 2011 7:46PM
For someone who doesn't understand idomatic speech, you sure are quick to throw out "tenable." Anyone with your anal grasp of purely literal language should know that it comes from the Latin word meaning "to hold," and you can't HOLD anything in a video game.
Quez Sep 3rd 2011 6:05PM
I play smf fury with about 3700 resil, and its exactly as described in the article....kill asap or die. One thing is certain, if you play with a reliable pocket healer as fury, to dispel snares and keep you healed, you will easily be an unstoppable killing machine. If you don't get heals, or try to solo a mage, you'll get frustrated easily, and feel completely useless.
Prot on the other hand has much more control and mobility, but the damage is a joke, unless you have vigilance stacked and get good support from teammates. It has definitely lost a lot of control against casters, because of the reflect nerf, which absolutely sucks. I used to eat any caster alive as protection...not so much anymore.
lsprof4 Sep 3rd 2011 9:17PM
Not to mention losing shield bash...i miss that
WoWie Zowie Sep 3rd 2011 6:51PM
fury really was overpowered in wrath, given that there were so few warriors in pvp before wrath. blizz wanted to buff them so that they would enter arena. fury's nerf was inevitable, they were unstoppable if they had enough (then) armor pen.
Patgamer Sep 3rd 2011 6:54PM
The only PvP I've done as Fury is in the Molten Front, people trying to jump me.. they get wrecked!
But the thing I hate about Fury in PvP.. you don't get the meaty sounds that Arms has.. I do have Deep wounds but Iunno. ;(