Ready Check: Dealing with a dead tank

At last we come to the end of this little miniseries that we've had going. First, we talked about how to deal with a poor DPS within a raid group; then we talked about dealing with a poor healer. Now it is time that we bring the discussion to tanks. Often, raid leaders find themselves being far more lax with tanks than they would be with other players. Tanks are a rare commodity; finding a good one is perhaps harder than it is to find a DPSer or even a healer, yet a fantastic tank is the cornerstone of any solid raiding group. Tanks take a brunt of the responsibility in many encounters, so it can be difficult to admonish them at times.
That being said, it is just as important to keep the tanks up to snuff as it is any other raider. Given their limited representation within a raid, a poor tank has a far larger effect on a raid than any other role. If your tank just can't pull it off, everything else quickly falls apart; they don't really have anyone else who might pick up their missing slack the way that other roles could. It is important that your tanks know their stuff and get the job done.
Getting over the fear
Fear is perhaps one of the largest driving reasons that raid leaders have against dealing with a tank who is underperforming. Tanks aren't as readily available and a bit more difficult to replace than a DPSer or healer, when one falls out of sight. For this reason, I've seen a number of raid leaders who are willing to let failures on the part of a tank slide far more than they would for any other player.
This is the biggest no-no that you could ever do. The first part of dealing with any poor tank is to understand that they are no different than any other player. They are not special, your raid does not rest exclusively upon their shoulders, and you will not completely fall apart should they leave. If anything, keeping around a tank who isn't performing up to par is far worse than keeping any other player. A poor tank is going to cause an encounter to fall apart faster than someone in any other role. If they don't know how to compensate for the mechanics at hand, then you'll quickly find your raid group smashing their heads against a brick wall. That's not a situation you want.
Tanks too can sometimes gain an inflated sense of self-importance for the health of a raid. I've been in a position where a raid tank actually told me that the raid wouldn't exist without him, that I had no choice but to keep him around because we could collapse if he were ever gone. Needless to say, he was promptly removed. Magically, the raid went on. Tanks aren't special; they are replaceable, and you will not end your world without them. There are always other tanks out there, and there are always immediate options that you can pursue to replace them until you can recruit another. Never let a tank dictate how you run a raid because they feel that you could not go on without them. You can.
The truth about threat
Despite all of Blizzard's efforts, threat is still an important part of any encounter that you run. While threat on most boss mobs is never going to be an issue, and it hasn't been since this expansion began, there are always situations where poor threat generation is going to result in multiple deaths. Your tank absolutely must know how to pick up adds, and failing to do so is always just as much their fault as it is anyone else's.
Placing the blame on others is usually the first fall-back of threat issues for a tank. Let's get one thing clear: Threat is just as much the responsibility of the tank as it is the DPS. If you have mages or rogues who have the strange urge to throw out their strongest attacks before a tank has even managed to pick up a mob, then, yes, you should correct the issue with those DPSers; they need to understand that threat isn't an instant glue and that tanks do need time. On the same turn, though, tanks need to also be made to understand that they have to be doing everything in their power to get as much threat as quickly as possible.
I've seen it time and time again on encounter after encounter. An add will spawn; the tank will get in position and merely taunt the add, then sit there waiting for the mob to slowly meander over to them. This is wrong on so many levels, and in this situation, any threat issues you have are going to be the direct result of the tank's failing to do the job. First, healers can just as easily pull threat as a DPSer would in this situation. Taunt doesn't generate any threat; it merely gives the tank more than whatever the current top value was. Should the mob take its sweet time getting over to the tank, and mobs always do, it is easy for that mob to change pace to chase down a healer instead.
Further, DPSers don't always have the same luxury of waiting as tanks would like. While the DPS need not unleash their full force upon every new, spawning add, many of them are going to deal secondary damage up front -- DOTs, cleaves, AOE damage, there's tons of light damage that's going to be applied. A mere taunt isn't going to have the mob stick to your tank from this type of damage, and it isn't the DPS's fault when they get aggro. A tank needs to be on a mob the moment that it spawns. Taunting it is the right course of action, but they need to travel to the mob just as much as the mob needs to get to them. If DOTs are pulling threat, it isn't the DPS's fault -- it's the tank's.
When you're having threat issues, while you need to address the DPS that are causing problems, you similarly need to get on the tank to step up their game. In threat situations, everyone is to blame, tank included.
Location, location, location
Positioning is one of the most difficult tasks that a tank will ever have to deal with. Not only is the tank getting smacked on by a gigantic creature of some form that is probably taking up a majority of their screen, they also cannot stand in fire, nor can they position the boss in such a way that the melee DPS are in danger. It's a tall order for anyone, but it is a part of the tank's job. Taking avoidable damage as a tank is far more dangerous than it is for any other raid member.
If a DPSer stands in something terrible for a second or two longer than they should have, it generally isn't the end of the world. They'll require more healing than they should, but overall their life probably isn't in danger. For a tank, that's just not the case. Taking excessive avoidable damage puts them in a huge amount of risk; they also have a boss swinging at their face, which is enough damage on its own without adding to it. Tanks who fail to move out of damage fields quickly enough are going to cause issues, and you cannot allow this to happen. A tank who is taking more damage than they should is a liability.
There are numerous addons available that will provide warnings for players to move; tanks need to heed these warnings just as anyone else. If a tank can't seem to manage this, then they have to be replaced -- not permanently, but at least for that encounter. Have them switch to a DPS spec and practice dodging out of whatever it is that's killing them. Once they have it done while a massive monster isn't beating their face in, they can try it with the added danger.
Second, tanks cannot just live for themselves. They have to be aware of the positioning of melee. Getting yourself out of a fire only to have the entire back of the boss sitting in one helps no one. Encounters rely just as much on the DPS performing their job as it does for a tank to do theirs. Failures here are possibly more directed at communication. If boss positioning is an issue, try having one of your melee players call out when the boss needs to be moved. It can get irritating to the tank to have to be told what to do at times, but it's something that must be done.
It isn't just a job for the DPS
Make no mistake, tanks generally have the worst of the worst when it comes to encounters. They have to worry about threat, their cooldowns, boss positioning, adds spawning, all sorts of random crap. It can get confusing and overwhelming at times. That being said, a tank can't always have the luxury of passing off everything they don't want to deal with onto other players. I've seen it numerous times: Tanks refuse to perform some encounter mechanic or won't interrupt a spell because "it's the DPS's job."
Hate to burst your bubble, but no, it's everyone's responsibility to perform the requirements of an encounter. Tanks have interrupts just the same as many DPS do, and they have the same requirement of using them as well. Ideally, sure, you want to relegate that job to your damagers, but that isn't always an option, particularly in 10-man raids. Tanks who refuse to use their entire toolkit of abilities are just as wrong as DPS who refuse to do the same because it might result in lowering their damage.
A tank's job is to survive, and surviving often involves doing things other than standing toe-to-toe with the big bad. Interrupts, running to something, activating whatever, taking some debuff, or whatever the encounter might require rests just as much on their shoulders as it does anyone else's. If a tank is unwilling to do the task they are given, then handle them as you would any other player than won't do as their told -- remove them.
Remembering equality
Tanks are a bit more tricky to deal with than other players, but at the end of the day, you really must view them as any other part of the raid group. You can never allow a tank to get away with something that you wouldn't allow a DPS or healer to do. That is perhaps a greatest danger than a poor tank is to a raid. Special treatment of one leads to resentment from the many. Players are people and should be treated with the respect that is due to them, but they are not granted anything more than that. Remember this.
Ready Check shares all the strategies and inside information you need to take your raiding to the next level. Be sure to look up our strategy guides to Cataclysm's 5-man instances, and for more healer-centric advice, visit Raid Rx.
Filed under: Raiding, Ready Check (Raiding)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Matthew Sep 9th 2011 3:17PM
Unrelated question – what addon is used to reskin the character pane like that? It looks cool. :)
Tyler Caraway Sep 9th 2011 8:22PM
EvlUI, it's pretty neat.
I'll also mention that I'm a bit sad, I thought the resolution on the picture was better and now it just doesn't make sense seeing it. The add-on currently has a glitch that after inspecting people for a while, it just sort of shifts their talents/title to something else. In this, it called on of our druids a Retribution Druid, and had I gone to his talent pane, it would have shown all the paladin talents. I've gotten a few other good ones too, Holy Warlocks, Shadow Warriors, Elemental Mages.
Matthew Sep 10th 2011 2:22AM
Thanks for the answer. :) Actually, I don't use this mod and I've been having this problem, too. I think that it mixes it up the character I'm inspecting with my character, though. Sometimes inspecting someone will show pictures of their weapons and armor, but the tooltip will be for my weapons and armor. Also, it will get the class/spec mixed up like you said (except maybe only mixed up with my character).
Niennee Sep 10th 2011 8:26AM
ElvUI* :)
kjjk7 Sep 9th 2011 3:22PM
"It isn't the DPS's job"
Yeah, when I tank, I hit every interrupt I can. As a Paladin I have two reliable interrupts and can handle the interrupts single-handedly in most fights. I'd rather do that so my DPS can burn the boss faster.
Eirik Sep 9th 2011 6:38PM
Wrath: Hey, shield bash is free threat!
Cataclysm: If I don't shield bash that cast, we all die.
Training out my old wrath reflexes has been painful.
Revynn Sep 9th 2011 3:26PM
- "Further, DPSers don't always have the same luxury of waiting as tanks would like."
This. Especially in fights like H-Rhyo, there are times when an add needs to die AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I understand that tanks are busy and I try to give them a global or two to get things locked down, but when someone says "Sparks aren't dying fast enough" then people look to the one assigned to kill it (me). If I can't unload on it because the tank isn't on the ball, then he is not only not doing his job, he's preventing me from doing mine.
DragonFireKai Sep 9th 2011 4:27PM
Bad Example, Sparks in Rhyolith are designed to be off tanked for a while then burst down. They gain a stacking debuff that increases their damage taken, so if you switch to them immediately, you'll kill them at the same time as if you had waited 10 seconds, and that ten seconds could be spent killing fragments, or liquid obsidium, or pushing closer to phase two.
The fragments on that encounter need to be killed immediately, but they don't do much damage, and as long as people stay stacked, the tank will pull them in eventually.
There's no excuse for tanks to loose aggro once the mob is positioned in melee range, but overzelous ranged DPS who unload on a mob before it even reaches the tank deserve their fate.
Revynn Sep 9th 2011 4:38PM
How long you can wait on those sparks depends on your raid. How many healers you're running, how geared they are and how geared your tanks are. They don't just take more damage after a while, they also start wrecking the tank if they're left up too long.
Also, if the spark spawns in the middle of the raid and starts pulsing his AoE all over, it causes a truck load of damage to everyone nearby. The tank needs to grab them, outthreat all the AoE damage going off and get it out of the raid as soon as possible.
fian Sep 9th 2011 3:32PM
Do you really honestly think what raids need is to convince DPS that if they pull threat it is not their fault?
Yes there are sucky tanks out there, yes it is really dumb to taunt a new add and let it come to you (or even to taunt a new add at all tbh).
Yes it is the dps's fault if he pulls an add before it reaches the boss.
fian Sep 9th 2011 3:33PM
doh
*before it reaches the tank
Sarama Sep 9th 2011 4:08PM
No, you had it right the first time. TANKING LIKE A BOSS!
JattTheRogue Sep 9th 2011 4:26PM
Just going to say, it's not dumb to taunt a new add ... as was mentioned in the column, healers can pull adds, as well as dps with incidental damage even when not actually targeting, so I find that when I'm tanking and need to pick up an add it normally starts heading right toward someone else before I have a chance to a single thing. Sure, I could just throw whatever ranged attacks I have at it and hope I out-threat whoever has aggro before it hits them, but why not just hit one button, have it focus on you for a couple seconds and give you that extra bit of time to then firmly establish threat? If you don't taunt then you're starting from behind; taunting puts you in the lead with threat and you can build off it.
Revynn Sep 9th 2011 4:27PM
He's not saying it's always the tanks fault, he's saying that it isn't always the DPS' fault.
If I'm in BWD throwing nasty at Arcanotron while standing on top of a goo puddle (the good kind that boosts your damage, I forgot what they're called) in the middle of a Bloodlust when Magmatron is activated, then I need to keep in mind that I'm turning a LOT of damage at the moment and need to give the tank a sec to hit it once or twice. If I dont do that and I rip the boss across the room before the tank can get it's attention, then it's my fault. However, if the tank who is supposed to be picking him up isnt paying attention and is on the wrong side of the room rather than standing next to it with his finger hovering over Shield Slam, then it's his fault.
However, if you're 2 minutes into Baleroc and you're creeping up on the threat table and in danger of pulling, then there's something seriously wrong and it IS the tank's fault. Threat has been neutered to the point that if a DPS just plain outthreats a tank, then the tank is either 1) Vastly outgeared (333's and leveling greens against FL gear) or 2) doing something horribly wrong.
tibbelkrunk Sep 9th 2011 4:52PM
It's a failing of the teamwork of both the tank and the DPS. It is collectively both of their fault when aggro is not established and maintained where it's supposed to be.
Cooperative acceptance of failure is something we're generally really bad at.
We lost the game because the offense scored fewer points than the defense allowed.
We lost the game because the defense allowed more points than the offense scored.
Both. The same thing. We lost.
How do we win? Well there isn't just one simple answer. The tank should always be striving to block one more shot, and the DPS should always be striving to get one more yard.
Revynn Sep 9th 2011 4:58PM
- "Just going to say, it's not dumb to taunt a new add ... as was mentioned in the column"
The column didn't say that. It said that a Taunt will put you on top of the threat list, but it won't make an add run across the room through AoE's and healer aggro to get to you unless you're generating more threat on top of it.
Taunting an add is good, expecting it to be enough is not.
Roaktahl Sep 11th 2011 9:08PM
If a tank can't hold threat after the recent changes. He is absolutely doing something wrong. There is almost no excuse for not being able to hold threat, after say the first 5 seconds of picking up a mob (or mobs). I actually struggle to not hold threat and during tank swap bosses (Rag most often) I have to stop hitting him till my OT gets enough vengeance to compete with me (threat-wise).
I also disagree strongly with taunting being your first action to pick up an add. All tanks have at least some form of ranged attack that is better to gain threat with (that should always outthreat "incidental" damage/heals from other people). If your mage decides to blow his **** on the mob and pull threat, this is when you hit your taunt, suddenly all the wonderful threat your mage just pumped into the add is now yours, and if you're lucky, all his cooldowns have been used.
Siaperas Sep 9th 2011 4:10PM
This column is full of good information. I tend to view tanks as the quarterbacks of the raid team. Much, not all, but a lot of the success of the team rests on their shoulders. That includes their ability to do their individual job well and work well with their team. If they're failing at either, their team is suffering.
eakin3 Sep 9th 2011 4:23PM
I haven't played every type of tank, but don't most of them have positioning abilities that let them get into melee with an add more quickly? Or a ranged pulling ability? Taunt seems like a poor choice of tools for that particular task.
One of the toughest things for me to learn as a rookie (read: terrible) tank was that once I had a threat lead I could move away from the boss and not worry about losing aggro. I think the tendency is to tunnel vision in on the big guy, but tanks more than anyone need a fine-tuned sense of situational awareness.
And whether you're DPS or a tank there's rarely a reason not to interrupt every ability you can. Unless there's a "Release Aberrations" type ability that has to go through, of course
JattTheRogue Sep 9th 2011 4:38PM
I play a DK tank and we sadly do not have any sort of positioning ability at all. We do have a range-pulling one, which you mentioned (death grip, obviously), but it sadly does not work on many boss adds other than as an extra sort of taunt. A lot of boss adds are immune to the movement part, like the adds with Nef or Chogall, which puts me at a slight disadvantage on those fights. So, for example, if I'm kiting adds on Nef in the third phase (or whatever phase it is when Ony is dead and the lava has gone down), I have to taunt to get them off healers and such since there are multiple adds and depending on what runes are up I may not have enough ranged abilities to damage them for threat. On a fight like Nef when no one is actually dpsing the adds, taunting works great because it normally gives them enough time to get to me so I can hit them (with me moving to them as well, of course). Other fights may work differently, but I don't understand why you WOULDN'T taunt on most fights with adds and then start attacking them unless you knew you would need to taunt soon or something. They have such short cooldowns there's no real reason not to.