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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrama Mamas: Should minors hide their age?
by Robin Torres 
Sep 12th 2011 at 9:00AM
I don't know if the letter writer is American; I just like the song. We normally edit our letters a little for clarity, but the way this one is written is important to this week's topic.
hello I'm a tank in turmoil
I'm a main tank for a small social, levelling guild we recently got teamspeak so we could progress through content at a faster pace, my problem is this I'm not the most aged player in my group and Ive not quiet hit the point in my life were my voice doesn't so sound young, i the main tank for my guild any they rely heavily on me, my guild leader is my best in game friend and i don't want to ruin my friendship with him but when he finds out I'm a minor it will ruin our friendship and il be laugh out of my guild. i have had 2 sever transfers because of this problem which has been really annoying and i don't want to leave my guild because i grown attached to them. want should i do?
sincerely tank in turmoil
Drama Mama Robin: Tank, we talk about age a lot here on WoW Insider -- in Drama Mamas specifically, and elsewhere. In fact, our very first column dealt with age and the issues it can cause.I am going to make two educated guesses here. I may be completely wrong on this; you'll have to let me know. (And please do.)
- It was your behavior and not the years you've been alive that contributed to the bad feelings from the other servers. You have matured and adjusted since leaving them and are now a better guildie and friend. Bravo for learning from your mistakes, if that's true.
- Your guild leader may already guess that you are a minor, judging from how you type. I know that many people (including myself) assume a lack of education due to age when dealing with missing punctuation, improper capitalization and poor grammar. I'm not trying to be hard on you -- you just need to work on your language skills. School and maturity will help there.
- Talk to your guild leader privately. Use whispers or email, not officer chat and definitely not guild chat.
- If you misled him by lying about your age, apologize for that.
- Ask how to break it to the rest of the guild and take his advice. He may choose to do it himself.
- Have a sense of humor about it. You may get good-naturedly laughed at. But they probably want to laugh with you. Take the jokes that happen as meant with the best intentions and enjoy the camaraderie. Just because someone pokes fun at you does not mean they want you out of the guild or even dislike you. Just assume no malice is meant and poke fun right back (again, without malice).
I really believe everything is going to be fine and fun. Enjoy your faster progression!
Drama Mama Lisa: Tank, we all know that people judge a book by its cover -- so your job here is to make sure you're wearing the right cover. The one with that bug-eyed photo of the kid from Home Alone beneath a title blaring "The Tank's Only 12!" in blazing red letters? Gah, tear that thing off your book right this moment. Leave it at home. You're not that kind of book. The cover you need to be wearing is the one featuring a dashing and capable young hero -- because that's what you are.Tank, don't apologize for what you are. You're young. You're capable. You're a successful, established main tank. Those are facts. Let them stand.
What I suggest that you do bring up with your guild is the fact that your voice most determinedly, most annoyingly yet most amusingly makes you sound quite, quite young. Let your voice take the heat. That does mean you're going to have to bring a sense of humor to the table -- you have to be able to poke fun at the Big Tank, Tiny Voice joke along with everybody else. Get everyone smiling along with you. We can all relate to having some quirk of physique or personality that others may find endearingly humorous. Accept yours, and embrace it to your advantage in this situation.
One caveat: All of this assumes that you are, in fact, old enough to be comfortably and appropriately mixing with a group of adults. Does your guild have any rules about age? Have you lied or actively hidden your age from your GM? And after discussing the situation with your GM, is he willing to continue your membership in the guild?
I promise you this, though: If your GM is not willing to allow you to remain in the guild, it will be for the best. Many guilds don't feel comfortable including minors; even a year or two could make or break their reaction. As attached as you may have grown to this group (and I do encourage you to share this fact with your GM), if they're not comfortable with such a young guildmate, then you don't want to insist on maintaining something that's become truly awkward. At that point, a change truly is all for the best.
In the end, I suspect that a frank, forthright private discussion with the GM will set you on track to scoot right past this awkward moment. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at robin@wowinsider.com.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Priestess Sep 12th 2011 9:42AM
Drama Mamas hit it head-on. My guild has a considerable number of much younger players. One of our officers for a time was young enough that he couldn't yet drive. We have "little ears" - as we call them - who aren't old enough to be in highschool. We don't outright ask people's age, but honestly, coming from a guild leader's perspective, it helps to know. These young players are very mature for their age, as our guild doesn't tolerate immaturity no matter what your age is, and we do give them prime raid spots because they've shown they can handle it. We recognize them for their abilty, not a number.
Yes, we do occasionally give them guff about their age, in a friendly fashion. Miss that boss ability and get insta-gibbed? It's ok, "he'll grow out of it, eventually". And honestly, it also helps a lot in knowing how to interact on a personal level with those people. Young people, for all their maturity, are still learning the ins and outs of life and human interactions, and we'd rather know and be helpful or considerate than blurt out something that young person really didn't need to hear, only to find out later than some 12 year old was sitting in on a topic we wouldn't talk about in front of our own kids.
I really hope the OP does own up to their age, but without apologizing for it. We were all young once, it's no crime. And if they are as good a player and guildmate as they think they are, they'll be considered the great asset that they are in the light of day, rather than feeling like they're hiding a secret from people they like. As the saying goes: "Age and maturity do not necessarily go together. Sometimes age shows up all by itself."
Nina Katarina Sep 12th 2011 9:52AM
Our raid team is mostly in their 20s, but a couple of us are staring menopause in the face and we have one teenager who just started college. Our teenager has very little competition for the 'most mature raid member' title, most weeks. He skips raid nights when he has an early class, he doesn't tease the shaman, he's always on time and brings consumables.
The approaches outlined in the article make good sense. Work on your grammar and spelling, don't surprise your guild leader and raid leader with this information and ask for their advice, let your team know what rules your parents have set down about your play time, and you shouldn't have problems.
And when you take the step to go to voice chat, think about bringing your parents or guardians into the mix. Once they realize that you can actually talk to the people you're playing this video game with, it's possible that their anxiety level about your game time may increase. If your raid group doesn't get too raunchy, play raid chat over the speakers for them so they can hear something of what you're doing.
Matthew Sep 12th 2011 6:35PM
Please don't tease the Shaman reminded me of 'please don't squeeze the Charmin'
Sahara Sep 14th 2011 7:13PM
Good suggestion about sharing vent with your parents. Some parents (not all) feel more comfortable with being able to hear vent when they walk by, like an open-door policy almost. It lets them feel a little more connected and in control of their kid's game experience, like their kid isn't trying to hide anything from them.
Use with caution. My mother-in-law is a person for whom sharing vent would be a BAD IDEA. She is against all things WoW, and I swear she would invent excuses to interrupt raids and shorten time when she knew it was WoW we were playing.
Mortenebra Sep 12th 2011 9:53AM
I started interacting with people online since I was 13, when I entered my first chat room and talked about hockey (yes, hockey, of all things). When I started WoW, I was a sophomore in college still 19yo. Since then, I've been recruitment officer and the "face" of the guild to the server, co-raid lead, and the token "listening ear" for the guild. Up until I actually mentioned it, no one thought I was a day under 25, if not 30. I just turned 24 this year and I'm also one of the youngest regular members of my guild.
And, yes, they sometimes give me heck for being "young." Still.
While I was by no means a minor when I started playing the game like the OP, the point here is to maintain a palpable level of maturity. Getting poked fun of about your age-- whether it's being called a "young whippersnapper" or an "old geezer"-- is something that comes with the territory and *usually* for fun.
In some cases, like when I actually was a minor in the chat room, revealing your age could be a good thing, especially when the people you're interacting with have become attached to you and you to them. Why? They're going to look out for you. They aren't going to baby you (though it may feel like it sometimes), but if they sense someone with less-than-pure intentions around, they're going to protect you. You're their virtual kid sibling whom they love to have around so they never want to see you hurt or preyed upon. You will thank them for it later, trust me.
Follow the advice of the Drama Mamas and it should be smooth sailing. Best of luck!
R. Sep 12th 2011 10:07AM
As a GM, I would be happy to have someone like Tank in my guild. His grammar, punctuation and capitalization may not be top notch, but look at what he wrote. "in turmoil." "Not the most aged member." These do not read as someone who is unintelligent. Experience and a few more years of schooling will take care of the details. I would much rather have a young member who sounds like Mickey Mouse than a foul mouthed college student going for his law degree.
Tirrimas Sep 12th 2011 12:21PM
/applaud
poggg Sep 12th 2011 10:12AM
Age is irrelevant. I'm a "mere" nineteen years old myself, and have been playing since I was...fourteen, I think, maybe thirteen. We all do stupid things when we're younger (I'd punch past-me in the face if I had a chance) but we all do stupid things when we're older, too. What matters is individual maturity. I've met plenty of people I know for a fact are 20+ that I was more intelligent/mature than years ago. That isn't arrogance (I actually have a very low self-opinion) - they were just idiots.
So don't judge someone based solely on their age. Judge them based on how they act. If they're the sort of person you're surprised to find out is young, then there's no problem. If they're the kind of person that makes you go "oh man, he's got to be twelve years old..." then proves you right...THEN you have a problem.
Also, quite unfortunately, crappy typing doesn't denote lack of age. It denotes lack of effort far more often. I've seen people older than me give excuses like "I don't put effort into something stupid like spelling on a game". I've also seen people younger than me do the same. It's quite sad.
...Looking back at this message, I'm not sure where I was trying to go with it. Ah well.
webaker Sep 12th 2011 10:13AM
^^ I've been interacting with online communities since I was 11, and admittedly, I've grown a lot since then. Considering 1) those online communities are no longer AOL 3.0 chat rooms and 2) I'm 22 years old. My first real group of online friends I met through a text-based RPG (a MUSH) when I was 13 -- a game I played on, to some extent, until I was 18 or 19. And I still talk regularly to most of those people, even though our game fizzled and died -- I've actually met a chunk of them IRL, visited them, and formed real bonds. From people I met when I was 13. On the internet. (God, explaining this to my mom -- "They're like pen pals! I met on a game about Harry Potter!!)
The main thing is to be safe and smart about the choices you make when revealing personal details -- obviously this is true anywhere on the internet. I guess WoW feels a bit more personal when you're using TS or Vent, because you're revealing a part of yourself (your voice, pervs) that people on the internet aren't necessarily privy to all of the time. I agree with the drama mamas and other comments -- that if you go to the GM, if your behavior thusfar hasn't rubbed your guildies the wrong way, I don't think it'll be a problem. (We have a 15 year old in my guild that didn't talk on vent until recently and -- honestly, 15 isn't that young, but when I realized he was still in middle school it just made me feel old. But he's a great guy, a good healer, and fun to play with.)
Anyway, TL;DR: if you're mature, a good tank, a considerate player and friend, then your age won't really matter that much. Also, if you're uncomfortable talking in vent or teamspeak, talk to your GM -- I know that we let people who don't have mics/don't like talking sit in vent when they need to but they can still talk in /g.
medusasmistress Sep 12th 2011 10:15AM
I have to say this just breaks my heart. back when I was raiding ICC and we had to pug our tank for a night. We had one of the best tanks we'd ever run with, he was polite and courteous and really knew what he was doing. never spoke in vent till right at the end of the night we killed the boss and he said thanks guys I'm glad we got it down for you. guild chat EXPLODED "OMG is he 12?" "he sounds 12" "no!" "he can't be?" "was he?" "somebody ask" me being the busy body that I am whispered him and said that we really appreciated his time, he did an awesome job and could I ask how old he was? feel free not to say. he responded that he was 12 but seemed really apprehensive about telling me. he got spammed by my raid group saying how impressed we all were for about the next 5 days. he made a point of not being the stereotype that we all know and hate.
I'm 32 and have about 5 very young friends in the game, 2 of which are an integral part of our progression healing team. These children that I would never have met in RL are a delight to have in vent and guild chat. The first I met when he was 12. and I have to say he changed my life. or at least the way that I look at the world, he had a very mature outlook on the world an uplifting sense of humor and was just generally someone that I genuinely wanted to hang out with. He's a delight and continues to be so on a daily basis. He was the first of his kind that I was to meet in this crazy game called wow. He showed me that not all teenage boys are the vile people I remembered from high school. If your the polite shining example of what a teenager can be and be truthful about what you are, I can almost guarantee there is someone out there who will change the way they look at the world as a result and I consider that to be the VERY best thing this game can give any of us.
Alkanshael Sep 12th 2011 10:16AM
I'm glad my guild has a " no minors" policy. Yeah a younger player can be skilled. Yes they may be able to act mature. I'm an adult, however, and I want to hang out with people of my age group. I don't hang out with minors irl and I'm not about to start in a social game.
Priestess Sep 12th 2011 3:08PM
Coming from a guild with plenty of minors, I'm very, very glad there are adult-only guilds out there. I think it's a bit of a pity that they sometimes come off as elitist about it, since it's really no crime to be young. But each kind of guild has its place and I'm very glad about that.
Something I haven't seen mentioned yet in the comments is that people need to know what they're signing up for when they join a guild, and your guild really needs to know what they're taking on. Revealing your age (or knowing the age of others) is a major part of that.
Everyone in my guild knows that we have a "little ears" policy and that there are times and places for the adult-only; they knew it going in, and agreed that it's ok with them. But I have my fair share of friends not in my guild who play this game to let loose in a totally adult kind of environment and way. I'm glad they're not in my guild, while at the same time being glad they're very happy in theirs. It takes all kinds!
Badgelooter Sep 12th 2011 10:17AM
OP, you could always go the no microphone route if you're that concerned about it. I've run with very skilled tanks that don't use voice communications, but rely on macros to announce what they're doing ("Popping X Cooldown, reduced damage for 10 sec", or "at 4 stacks, taunt now!!") While it's not ideal, I have encountered several players who, for whatever reason, are unable to hop on voice chat during raids. As long as they are not the leader, it can work very well.
If the rest of the guild can't accept that a young player is skilled and an integral part of the team, then you can do better. I do wonder though, how is their maturity level, or to be more exact, the maturity level of their chat? My guild has an 18+ rule because we want to be able to joke freely without worrying that someone's mother is going to try and create an issue when our chat heads beyond PG-13. We have a few children of our raiders with toons in the guild, and we tone it down when they log on out of respect for them and their parents' wishes. Your guild may have similar concerns, and it's their right to limit membership as they see fit.
G01851 Sep 12th 2011 10:17AM
We had a pally healer back in the Naxx days. When he started, he was HORRIBLE, but after a few weeks of encouragement and research, he became a very solid healer. His voice sounded quite mature, but then he let it slip that he was only FOURTEEN! He was very funny and very courteous. His only failing after awhile was that he'd stay up too late and sometimes fall asleep at the keyboard ;)
TendoMentis Sep 12th 2011 10:20AM
I'm not sure age is always necessarily a determination of a player's aptitude or maturity.
A mage in my guild is a younger person, and his maturity and ability to contribute to a raid over the last two years resulted in him being promoted to officer recently.
I'd say he's more mature than some of my guild's older players in some cases.
alzeer Sep 12th 2011 10:25AM
unless he sounds like Elmo, he shouldn't worry about it
kunukia Sep 12th 2011 10:31AM
My first guild leader was an amazing, mature, decent person. I still think of him and his family-oriented guild rules and advice when I get in awkward situations. He was in his mid twenties at the time, but had the maturity and common sense of a 40 something who had been in leadership positions for years. This was very reassuring to me, a 50+ whose kids had dragged into this strange new world.
When I first heard him on Teamspeak, I could almost not contain my laughter. He sounded 14 at most.
daemon Sep 12th 2011 10:41AM
@Robin: Your conclusion that poor grammar and punctuation indicates a minor is specious. I find that it is much more likely for someone with those communication deficiencies to be adults as children are specifically trained to be able to use proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation from the first grade on.
Vector Sep 12th 2011 11:22AM
While this is a logical conclusion to make, the reality is that Robin is spot on. The younger kids simply have a hard time typing in complete sentences. I don't think this is specifically an age/education thing, but rather the "million-texts-a-day" culture invading the more formally written word.
Teens/kids are simply more impacted by today's electronic shorthand, and I truly hope that as these kids are maturing, that they will snap out of it. Unfortunately, as 24-hr texting for kids is still somewhat of a new think, I think the end result remains to be seen.
PS -- I'm not anti-texting either, I shoot out 50 or so a day. But on the iphone it's pretty easy to maintain coherency and not fall victim to the grammar-be-damned shorthand.
Perenoldian Sep 12th 2011 11:53AM
I'm 16, and I have been playing WoW since I was 11. My brother started when he was about 10 (I was 12 by then), and my youngest brother started early this year and hit 85 last month (he's 11). The only reasons I began typing with at least semi-proper punctuation, spelling, and grammar, were because I felt there were too many ways to misinterpret whatever I was attempting to communicate at the time, and I didn't want to seem as young as I was at the time. If people can't understand how I present my thoughts or opinions, they'll never understand them.
Both of my brothers type with common errors in both grammar and spelling, yet they go to school every week day. The teacher refreshes their minds on a daily basis, but that doesn't mean they feel it necessary to type that way. I've found that most of the kids I know type with the same disregard for grammar and spelling, and I've also found that generally, the reason is, or could be, that it's "Just a game," or that they find games a break from school and any lessons associated with it.
However, I don't think that a lack of typing "skills" mean that a person is unintelligent (unless they prove themselves to be), rather, it could mean a variety of different things. They could simply not care enough (all ages), or they could purposefully type in such a way to fit in (again, all ages really). They could simply not know any better.
Anyways, I think I may have gotten a little sidetracked there. Using too many commas is my weakness!
Just my two cents.