Scattered Shots: Hunter class feedback

Blizzard has recently put out the call for class design feedback on the official WoW forums, with a thread for each class. Hunters have stepped up in a big way, and the hunter class thread already has over 1,500 responses at the time of this writing (Wednesday night), which is more than any other class. Go, hunters!
The feedback thread is not just an open forums for people to complain but instead is a very focused set of questions looking at longer-term class design. This is not, of course, a promise to implement the will of the class (after all, game manufacturers have known for decades there's a big difference between what people want and what they will buy), but it is a clear request to at least understand the will of the class.
We've talked here on Scattered Shots about many ways to improve the hunter class, from removing minimum range to touching up the talent trees of BM, MM, SV, and pet talents, to pet stances, to the problems with haste design and some just plain awesome things we should get. Regular readers have a pretty good idea what I think should be changed.
So today, we're going to take a look at what the rest of the hunter population thinks about the hunter class and how they answered the class design questions. Join me after the cut for a look at the over 1,500 hunter responses to class design that the developers will be reading through.
Since actually categorizing the responses to 1,500 posts takes far, far more hours than I have to commit, I am instead took random samplings of the responses. I looked at the first three responses of each page and categorized the answers (and I skipped over the ones that didn't follow instructions, so they aren't counted).
By the time I was halfway through (which still took hours), the clear vocal majority for each question had become pretty clear, and by the time I finished, the gap between the leading answers and the rest continued until it was a giant gulf. It appears that the most important thoughts on each question are widely shared by a lot of the hunter population responding.
Before we get into the specifics, it's worth noting that many people brought up their issues in different places. So for example if a hunter had an issue with a bug, he might bring it up under quality of life, while another would bring it up as something that makes the class less fun, another would put fixing it on her wish list, and another might list it in all of those places. Looking at some of these aggregated across all responses rather than just within each question can give a different view of some of the top issues.
Hunters respond
What are your biggest quality of life issues? By leaps and bounds, the top complaint here was the minimum range (often referred to as the dead zone). Hunters are not happy with minimum range at all in truly overwhelming numbers. Interestingly, there were a lot of hunters who never PVP at all complaining about how minimum range completely screws up their PVE experience (as it very much can).
Far distant from minimum range complaints, the next leading issues were cries for hunters to have some kind of decent and meaningful self-heal, complaints about various pet bugs including the pet health on summon bug, trap launcher functionality, and a decent amount of complaints that focus regen is too low or too low in specific situations (PVP being a popular one).
What makes playing your class more fun? Again, the overwhelming top response here was hunter pets -- collecting pets, customizing pets, rare pets, or just plain having pets. It is very much clear that hunters love their pets.
After a big gap, hunters listed being very mobile with lots of instant casts and highly mobile DPS, followed after a bit more of a gap by utility/versatility and extreme soloing of old content as the top joys of huntering.
What makes playing your class less fun? Here, the response was pretty deafening, with minimum range again topping the list of complaints by an incredible margin. In fact, the margin was so large that the rest of the responses all fell into a very narrow range of each other, making it difficult to pick out statistically significant leaders. Among the other complaints were the lack of meaningful self-heal, focus regen issues, and PVP issues.
How do you feel about your rotation? Yet again, the first place response has a huge margin, and that is that hunter feel like our rotation is just fine. The vast majority of hunters were generally pleased with the state of their rotations.
Every spec had a few people complaining that it was too easy or boring, but larger criticisms were the need for more focus regen, particularly in PVP and AOE situations and complaints about Kill Command range issues.
What's on your wish list? The variety of different things on hunters' wish lists is staggering and often makes for a great read -- there are a lot of hunters with a lot of fun ideas. With the huge spread of wish lists, we finally had a category without a leading response with a massive margin.
The top request was of course to remove minimum range, but after that were many requests for improvement of the Trap Launcher mechanics. We also had a large number of requests for dual-wielding ranged weapons, including several specifically asking for dual-wielding of pistols. Following that were requests for self-heals, better BM DPS, a BM ability to summon a whole stable of pets at once briefly, and a return of the Eyes of the Beast talent that let us take over our pet and run around as the pet.
On the pet front, there were a myriad of pet requests, including hunters who want more pets and more pet slots -- apparently, bringing the total from five to 25 wasn't nearly enough for the pet-loving hunters! Requests for tameable pet mounts, tamable hydra, water pets, flying pets, the ability to tame druids and even several requests to have a hunter spec with no pet at all.
In general, if you're thinking of browsing through the massive hunter design thread, definitely pay attention to the wish lists. That's where all the fun stuff is at!
What spells do you use the least? Here again, we were back to a single huge leader with Widow Venom as the one hunter spell that almost all hunters acknowledge never using. Also high on the list were, in order, Immolation Trap, Aspect of the Wild, Eagle Eye, Beast Lore, and Raptor Strike (which was surprising to me, given its glyphed benefit for some raid bosses). Many hunters just blanket listed "all melee" abilities, and those who remembered made a special point of stressing the current uselessness of Counterattack.
Overall trends
Looking at aggregate responses, the clear overwhelming trends were:
- Hunters hate minimum range, want it gone, and will tell you exhaustively why.
- Hunter love their pets and want more pets, more slots, and will exhaustively tell you all the new pet-related things that would be cool.
- Many hunters made a point of noting how impressed they were with focus as a resource mechanic, including those who initially were dubious but thought it worked out well. This positive feedback on focus overwhelmed those who dislike focus.
- Many hunters really want a meaningful self-heal ability.
- Many hunters noted the lack of usefulness of Camouflage. It wasn't a large category in any single question, but it kept coming up fairly regularly.
- Hunters do not feel that they do well in PVP. While some hunters passionately argued their case, many others simply made a passing statement, taking it for granted that the state of hunters in PVP is dismal at the moment.
- Aspect of the Cheetah and Aspect of the Pack came up moderately often here and there, and hunters really don't like the daze effect when getting hit by one or the other or both.
I want to make very clear something that Nethaera made very clear when posting the questions:
We are not going to see blue posts saying "Good point there!" or "Here's why we won't be doing that." Also, we can't expect the upcoming patch 4.3 to hold the reactions either, though I wouldn't be surprised to see some stuff in there that hunters are requesting.The purpose of this thread is to get information to us, not the reverse... We won't be replying here addressing your concerns. This is purely for us to read your answers...
I suspect that most of this is more long-term food for thought for the designers as they begin discussing the next expansion, which will probably be announced at BlizzCon next month. It's during expansions that Blizzard is most willing to make massive overhauls to classes, and these questions are very specifically designed to get an idea of how players perceive the feel of their class.
It will be very interesting to see how Blizzard will react to the overwhelming frustration with minimum range -- something that hunters have complained about for years and Blizzard has staunchly defended. Blizzard developers recently showed they were willing to change direction with tanking threat, so perhaps they'll also recant on minimum range and finally remove what I feel is a horrible mechanic that hinders a lot of encounter design and makes PVP balance virtually impossible.
However it turns out, I'm always happy to see Blizzard reaching out for feedback like this, even if we aren't going to see direct responses from it. And I highly encourage everyone to pop over and drop in their thoughts. Follow the instructions, and a Blizzard developer will read what you say. Add your voice to the vocal hunter community, and help Blizzard steer the game into the direction that you want.
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
RS Sep 15th 2011 4:45PM
I was happy to see that a majority of the responses were on message and didn't waver much from what Blizz asked for.
People can keep focused if they want.
After I read a few I was like , "Dang, forgot about that" or "That's a good point" .
We Hunters did well and are continuing to do well.
/applause
RS
furrama Sep 15th 2011 6:45PM
Can't call us all huntards anymore eh?
REDMJOEL Sep 15th 2011 7:25PM
Can't we?
Straz Sep 15th 2011 5:13PM
I'm glad I got my post in within the first dozen pages. With that character switching bug going on atm, I haven't been able to find where my post was so I could continue reading lol
I was very impressed with the lack of QQ posts and how well-informed the posts were for the most part. I think it reflected very well on our community and class.
Noyou` Sep 15th 2011 5:33PM
Sounds like the hunter section is better than the mage one. That is the only one I did so far and it had plenty of QQ and people not answering the questions. It also had people adding a lot of fluff to their answer when only PvP/PvE was asked for example. I fully intend on filling out surveys for each one of the classes I have to 85 (8 and counting).
J.T. Wenting Sep 16th 2011 3:11PM
pretty much so. Of course the Euro forums were awash with complaints about Blizzard asking for feedback at all, often from the same individuals who've always complained about Blizzard not listening to them...
But mostly that wasn't from the hunter community.
What surprised me was the small number of people trying to abuse the threads to ask for nerfs to hunters. Either (for once) they were listening to the blue post (highly unlikely) or the cms were actively policing the thread and removing any such posts almost as quickly as they appeared.
Don't know about the US forums, but the EU ones are just about the most immature bunch of whiners and crybabies I've ever encountered online (and I've been online for going on 20 years now).
jordan Sep 15th 2011 5:23PM
hmm... what to do about minimum range... maybe hunters should get guns and bows changed to 2 handed weapons and pistols for their ranged slot.
Ringo Flinthammer Sep 15th 2011 5:27PM
Reverse that. Pistols would make more sense as a close-ranged weapon.
jordan Sep 15th 2011 5:38PM
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing but with pistols coming in pairs like gloves and occupying the ranged slot. Either way they should be valor/justice items since hunters can't buy their stat sticks currently unlike other classes.
Hal Sep 15th 2011 5:55PM
Alas, I don't see pistols coming in any time soon; a weapon that could be used by only one class would be a bad idea.
Of course, you could give Rogues and Warriors pistols as well, but that just muddies the waters. And once again, Strength pistols would be a single-class item.
Meradana Sep 15th 2011 6:12PM
strength ranged weapons now are only for a single class as well
Gaurisk Sep 15th 2011 7:25PM
One of the more interesting suggestions I saw, one that I wish I had thought of, was doing away with the Ranged/Relic slot entirely and letting Hunters put their ranged weapons in the Main Hand/Off Hand slots. Reason being that it would simplify gearing for all concerned.
Dhorvin Sep 16th 2011 2:32PM
Oh man, pistols (and hand crossbows for the gun-phobic) instead of melee weapons would be awesome. Just give them lower base damage than our ranged weapon but allow us to use all of our shots with them. That way the Hunter is punished for shooting in melee with lower dps, but can still do damage and maintain his rotation. Just implement them as 2H items that represent a matched MH/OH pair and put them on badge vendors. That would be such a great flavour change, as well as a huge quality of life improvement. Me want-ee.
Natsumi Sep 16th 2011 11:10PM
Or, they could remove the ranged slot all together, make bows/guns/crossbows the only weapons Hunters can equip in the weapon slot, and give everyone access to Relics. This would remove the whole "Hunter Weapon" meme forever and remove 90% of the loot drama involving hunters. Then Blizzard could introduce a SECOND ranged weapon "Hero" class that has no pet and a healing spec so you'll have SOME gear competition. Then, finally, they could introduce a pistol class, perhaps ret-con several older guns to them for leveling purposes, and you could finally have your dual pistol spec.
Ringo Flinthammer Sep 15th 2011 5:26PM
The only thing I disagree with is the usefulness of Camo. It's really solid in PvP for guarding nodes, especially since it hides your pet, too. It's less useful in PvE, but I've used it to run through lower level dungeons and dropping my aggro radius to effectively zero (instead of the merely small radius for running through a lower level dungeon).
That said, if there were a glyph that made it more comparable to Stealth, I certainly wouldn't complain.
And given Blizzard's recurring inability to give us a raiding gun, dual-wielding pistols would be something we'd only get to do while leveling, I'm afraid.
Calisim Sep 16th 2011 9:27AM
I use camo all the time, especially for setting up CC in several spots in the Zul instances, as well as a few places in various raids. If people aren't using it, it's their own fault, as it's a very useful ability!
ragecage Sep 17th 2011 10:48AM
I find that Arenas are the place where Camo is the weakest... all it does is protect the hunter from initial ranged attacks, but any movement by the hunter while camouflaged is entirely visible. I use it all the time, though, in BGs and definitely running old instances.
Bapo Sep 15th 2011 5:29PM
As noted by another person on the forums, it really does make me nervous when they ask what your least used ability is. Yes, I understand some are really low, but then there's others that were just for fun and such. (I'm looking at you Eyes of the Beast and Eagle Eye). Here's hoping they someday add back in EoftB and keep Eagle Eye.
Noyou Sep 15th 2011 5:34PM
Volley. I miss you.
Ronin Sep 15th 2011 5:54PM
I know what you mean about it making you nervous-- are they going to cut an ability that I like? But truth be told, one problem with playing hunters is that we just end up with too many abilities on our bars that we almost never (or actually never) use. At least, IMO.