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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsShifting Perspectives: Balance druid feedback
by Tyler Caraway 
Sep 16th 2011 at 3:00PM
Early on in the week, Blizzard started threads in each of the class forums on the official website asking for players to provide feedback regarding their classes and specs in preparation for 4.3 and the next expansion. For any of you who have not yet posted, I highly encourage you to go do so. No matter how late it may seem or how buried among the pages your post might end up, Blizzard representatives will be reading those threads, and it is the absolute best opportunity for you to let the development team know how it is you feel. They expected that these threads would grow to a vast size; they're prepared to handle the volume of feedback and report their findings.
I, too, have posted in that thread, stating what it is I think and feel about balance druids. In doing so, however, I felt that I was rather limited by the system in which I was posting. Writing for balance druids every week, it's obvious that I've got a lot to say about the spec, so attempting to cram all those thoughts into a condensed forum post was difficult. This week, I'd like to take the opportunity to expand upon the feedback I provided, and invite you once again to go and leave your own.
Quality of life issues
One of the first questions as was in regards to quality of life changes that we would like to see for our class or spec. In terms of druids overall, our mechanics work rather well. The only major issue that any non-restoration druid really faces in terms of generalized mechanics is Rebirth. Rebirth forces the druid to de-shift out of any form they are currently in. For any non-restoration druid, this is something of a pain. It isn't a major concern, save maybe for bear druids, but it's the type of light quality of life change that would be swell to see implemented.
Specific to balance, the only issue in this category that I have is with Moonkin Form itself. I know that this is a topic I've brought up a few times recently, but it is the only quality of life change that I really see balance druids needing. Moonkin Form should be a choice, nothing more, nothing less. Given the recent history on this matter, I won't spend too much time on it, but here's the long and short of it.
Druids, as a class, are not specifically about shapeshifting. We're about nature magic, living in the natural world, and protecting that balance which we have. The original shapeshifting forms were either utility forms such as Travel or Aquatic, and class-changing forms with Cat and Bear. Balance and restoration druids did not shift in these times, instead having shapeshifting function as an auxiliary form of utility. Across other games where we see druids, this same path is true; druids often had three ways in which they could specialize. A druid could specialize in shapeshifting combat, battle magic combat or healing.
Balance druids focused solely on battle magic, using our natural ties to nature in order to repel back those who would upset the balance. It wasn't until the introduction of Moonkin Form that this changed. I don't want to see Moonkin Form be totally destroyed, there are those who do like the it, yet there needs to be options for those that would rather not shapeshift. Some of us would rather remain as we are and be a battle mage focused on nature magic. All I ask for is choice, nothing more, nothing less.
PVE issues - Eclipse
Beyond the quality of life changes, the next questions dealt with how the spec or class functions overall. In this, I have a few concerns about balance. Notably, Eclipse is still a rather flawed system. To be fair, the current implementation of Eclipse is lightyears ahead of where we were in the last expansion, to compare the two systems now is simply silly. Eclipse has changed and we're the better for it. Be that as it may, the system itself is far from perfect.
First is the issue of damage disparity. Eclipse is extremely powerful, and it continues to grow even more powerful as we gather stronger gear. The difference in damage and a druid with an Eclipse proc can deal in respects to one without an Eclipse proc is baffling. I poised this question to the development team all the way back during Beta; what are we to do when the Eclipse bonus is over 50%? 60%? When a balance druids have such wild swings in their damage potential, overall balance is difficult to achieve.
Balancing Eclipse for rote PVE content isn't difficult in the least, but this game consists of far more than basic Patchwerk styled raid encounters. There's leveling, PVP, small group damage, and a slew of things inbetween that have to be considered as well. In many ways, our damage just isn't balanced enough between the two extremes for Eclipse to remain as it is. We simply aren't capable of dealing enough damage outside of Eclipse to warrant situations where we can tolerate that state for long – we must be in Eclipse for without it we just aren't up to par.
This glaring gap in parity between the two extremes has forced balance druids into a number of playstyles which are counter productive; the most obvious being the issue of sitting in Solar Eclipse. Whether it be for PVP or AOE purposes, balance druids love to sit in a Solar Eclipse, and why shouldn't we? Both of our DOTs gain a huge advantage in damage, becoming the strongest DOTs in the game, while our strongest AOE ability is made even more powerful in the process. Further, remaining in a Solar Eclipse allows for our burst damage to be significantly higher as well. The downside to sitting in a Solar Eclipse is that there is no downside.
Blizzard has attempted to correct this issue, going so far as to utterly destroy the Lunar Shower talent, yet nothing has come of it. No matter what changes Blizzard might make now, they can't solve the issue of balance druids sitting in a Solar Eclipse because the issue is apart of Eclipse itself. There is no simple fix because the problem itself isn't simple. Make no mistake, Eclipse is far better now than it ever has been, and I am grateful for that, but that does not mean that the system is perfect. Eclipse is still flawed in the most basic of ways, and these flaws need to be addressed in the next expansion.
PVE issues - movement
With the aforementioned destruction of the Lunar Shower talent, there were also some unforeseen consequences. Lunar Shower wasn't just the heart of balance druid movement DPS, it was our movement DPS. Without Lunar Shower, we had nothing else. Once upon a time, movement was merely a time to refresh DOTs, you move, you cast a DOT. Now, however, that just doesn't work any more. Why? Eclipse.
Overwriting an Eclipsed DOT with an unEclipsed DOT is painful. Unless that DOT was already close to falling off, a majority of the time the re-write isn't even worth it. That's forced us into a situation where now we don't even have the most basic of movement DPS tools to work with. Instead, we now have to rely on Wild Mushroom to be our movement DPS. While certainly workable, and actually not terrible in terms of movement damage, the mechanics of it are rather quite clunky. I'm all for adding in skill to a rotation, but utilizing Wild Mushroom on the fly while moving out of something terrible, and possibly with a boss also moving, it all gets rather tricky and far more a mess than it should be.
The next expansion is a great way to solve this issue. We are well past any easy solutions at this point. Changing Lunar Shower back to how it was would only be a moderate fix as there's still DOT overwriting issues to contend with. Balance needs a new tool, something that we can use on the move that isn't apart of our normal rotation but is worth using when there's nothing else to use. With each expansion comes new abilities, new talents, it's the perfect time to give balance what we need.
PVP issues
One matter that I wasn't able to address in my post was issues surrounding PVP. Truth be told, there's a lot working for balance PVP yet there's just as much fighting against it. It'd be easy to dedicate an entire article to nothing but PVP fixes, yet here all I can do is hope to brush the surface of it. One key element lacking in balance PVP is one of mobility. Mobility was once the highlight of druid PVP in general. We were the most mobile class in the game, it's what made us good.
The problem was that strength, though. Because druids traditionally always held such great mobility, Blizzard never actually focused on it when rebalancing the classes. Why would they? It was already quite powerful, what as there to change? Unfortunately, other classes had much weaker mobility, and Blizzard sought to change that. While druid mobility itself hasn't much changed since Vanilla, the sheer fact that it hasn't is a problem in of itself. We remained the same while other classes gained vast amounts more. The comparable buffs to our weaknesses just hasn't panned out in keeping up.
Defensive capabilities has long been a flaw for balance druids, we're simply too squishy. This is because our primary defense has always been our ability to escape, yet with the gigantic leap in uptime that many other classes have seen, that system of defense just isn't working any more. Balance druids need to reclaim their mobility. You can buff other parts of our defense, sure, but it'd mostly just result in passive styled buffs that feel flavorless. We want style, we want to remain unique, and the one thing that once made us unique hasn't been kept up to date. Balance druids should be the masters of hit-and-run tactics that have a means of escaping from nearly any situation. Where's those abilities?
Every week, Shifting Perspectives: Balance brings you druidic truth, beauty and insight ... from a moonkin's perspective. We'll help you level your brand new balance druid, tweak your UI and your endgame gear, analyze balance racials and abilities, and even walk you through PVP as a balance druid.
Filed under: Druid, (Druid) Shifting Perspectives
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
david Sep 16th 2011 4:23PM
I would like the treats to spawn at my side and attack my target automatically. why do we need to target an area to drop them? should work like the DK ghoul
vocenoctum Sep 16th 2011 4:26PM
I'd like them to be more like the priests shadow-beast. You have a mob targeted, click the ability and they spawn there. The treants are slow, and melee, so it's a waste of time to target them, then let them run.
Neirin Sep 16th 2011 4:25PM
A thought for revamping the balance druid flavor: make Eclipse more visually impressive. Rather than just having a sun/moon pop up above our heads when it procs, give us a bright orange or blue version of the shadow priest haziness or make plants sprout beneath us during solar and lights twinkle around us in lunar or something. If we can be visually distinct without the need for moonkin form that might solve the problem. This could be a bit risky because aesthetics are very subjective, but if it worked out we could preserve moonkin form in the same way tree of life was preserved for restos. I think a giant owlbear is a sufficiently awesome looking CD.
Or, perhaps, blizz could give moonkin form a more interesting impact on gameplay. Perhaps limit celestially based spells to moonkin form only. Moonfire, Starfire, Starfall, and Starsurge have little to do with the flavor of either the feral or resto trees, so limiting them to balance's iconic shapeshift wouldn't be a very large shift in flavor. While not exactly a visionary solution, it does bring moonkin form more in line with bear and cat form (which I think we can agree are interesting enough to warrant their existence) rather than just being a static boost to stats.
Either way, I think it's important that some form of shapeshifting is preserved (as a CD or static form) because shapeshifting is the central bit of flavor that ties the druid class together, whatever your nostalgia for caster druids in vanilla might be.
Neirin Sep 16th 2011 4:41PM
Quick point: I think having something to replace the visual distinctiveness of Moonkin form is a must if we are to get rid of it. Mages define themselves by being pure casters and can get away with not being visually special, but other casters have to differentiate themselves in some way. Locks use demons, shamans use totems, and shadow priests are shadow incarnate. That's a lot to live up to if we want to avoid being mage 2.0.
Gaurisk Sep 16th 2011 4:52PM
Be careful what you wish for; the Shaman Class Feedback thread has seen an overwhelming plea to ditch the totems already. Just because a mechanic is distinctive doesn't mean it's very good.
Luke Sep 16th 2011 5:06PM
@Gaurisk
I hope that's not true. But if it is I hope to Elune Blizzard doesn't cave in. I mean what the hell would they replace it with? That would strip Shamans of their most unique mechanic. Don't get me wrong, sometimes totems can be difficult to get used to at first but overall removing them doesn't sound like the solution.
Gaurisk Sep 16th 2011 5:16PM
I have to agree with the Shaman players here. If planting sticks in the ground was what makes a Shaman interesting, Thrall and Drek'thar would use them. But that's a subject for whenever the Totem Talk column has its feedback analysis post.
Luke Sep 16th 2011 5:25PM
@Gaurisk
Mmmm. Well I'll just have to go read the Shaman post, but you're correct that discussion is best left for later. I'll close my end of this topic by adding that I'm just one of those players that doesn't jump to the same conclusions about class homogenization until core mechanics and flavor start getting chucked out the window. I don't care if every class has a silence mechanic, or a stun mechanic, that's not homogenization. But removing the ability to shapeshift for druids or removing totems for Shamans starts sounding more like homogenization to me.
Zack Sep 16th 2011 4:59PM
Hey,
I've never commented on here before, but the topic holds an interest for me. I too completed the Druid feedback form and actually agree on the Moonkin/Eclipse positions. My question (feedback on the forums) would be why not solve both problems at once?
My idea goes like this: keep Eclipse as is. Turn Moonkin Form (the talent) and Euphoria into Dreamform. This talent would result in the following: When an Eclipse procs the Druid receives 5% of max mana back, and all party members receive a benefit equal to 2.5% of the Druid's maximum mana. In a Lunar Eclipse you take on the Moonkin form and gain benefits related to arcane spells (a free Starfire or double damage Moonfire during the Eclipse, etc...), a brief aura bonus for your team, and other benefits or set-backs needed to balance it out. In a Solar Eclipse you take on the Treant form and gain benefits related to offensive nature spells (double damage Wrath, summon a fourth Treant, etc...), a brief aura bonus for your team, and other benefits or set-backs needed to balance it out.
To make it fair (limit form sitting) the form would have a time limit. Since each charge requires 50 points in either Solar or Lunar make the form change last 50 seconds or until the Solar or Lunar energy is used up.
Though it reuses the Treant form it is neither the same as a cooldown, nor would it affect the same spells in the same ways. This keeps the unique flavor for each of the specs while enabling more people to see Treant form.
A Minor Glyph for this talent could be to make one form or the other appear for both transformations.
I know my idea is pie-in-the-sky, and unlikely to garner support from many players or the devs, but it solves the problems posed by this article.
themightysven Sep 16th 2011 5:04PM
how aboot Eclipse becomes a cooldown a lá the old Combustion. You hit it and for x uses (combustion had for x crits) of target spell you get the buff, when the buff fades the cooldown starts, but the next time you hit it the opposite version pops.
would A. stop the solar eclipse camping that they want to stop so badly
B. let you use what ever spell you wanted at that time instead of having to wait for a burn phase yada yada yada.
what could bring me back to balance would be splitting the tree in 3 parts. Left side Arcane damage spells and the modifiers that love them, right side Nature spells and their assorted paraphernalia. the middle has your balance of nature, earth and moon, dreamstate, moonkin form, and Hurricane which needs to be converted to strong physical AoE. In a perfect world there would be enough options to get to the bottom only specializing in two of the three branches
Plainswander Sep 16th 2011 5:20PM
This appeals to me, keeps a element of random, but gives us more control over when that random happens. I'd like to see the disparity between damage in and out of eclipse addressed.
it'd be cool to tie eclipse to utility, and not as much to damage. Arcane would be mana regen and mobility buffs, and Nature would be self-heals and CC or something fun like that. No idea how it'd play out, just brainstorming really.
themightysven Sep 16th 2011 5:31PM
here's a quick and dirty re-arrangement of talents to demonstrate my second idea
http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i459/Matthew_Glover/balance.jpg
Plainswander Sep 16th 2011 5:07PM
I desperately they'd quit trying to "fix" eclipse, and just get rid of it. We're nearing the second expansion of the 'great eclipse' experiment. And it has NEVER worked satisfactorily. Saying it's 'better now than it's ever been' doesn't keep it from being a reeking pile of murloc underpants overall.
it's like having a "nature spec" and "arcane spec" DPS-talent tree fighting for supremacy at all times while you're trying to play. To describe it a bit more, imagine making mages be forced to switch back and forth between "frost" and "affliction" every ten casts. THAT'S eclipse.
And yes, I know "affliction" isn't a mage tree. That's somewhat the point.
Revynn Sep 16th 2011 5:15PM
- "The difference in damage and a druid with an Eclipse proc can deal in respects to one without an Eclipse proc is baffling. I poised this question to the development team all the way back during Beta; what are we to do when the Eclipse bonus is over 50%? 60%? When a balance druids have such wild swings in their damage potential, overall balance is difficult to achieve."
This is happening to Demonology as well. When Metamorphosis is up (reforged for haste since I normally use Affliction), then I'm sitting at well over 50% bonus damage. It's kinda ridiculous . . . And considering how fast demo has scaled through this tier (bottom spec in T11, top spec in H-T12) there are going to be some significant issues in T13 if things keep on the way they have.
I mean, I like bursting to 40K DPS at the start of a fight, but sinking down to 23k or so once all my CD's expire kinda sucks.
Ves Sep 16th 2011 5:41PM
The problem with Moonkin form is I'm not in it enough.
Firstly, let Moonkin mount. Simple.
Secondly, upon casting a Balance spell while in Travel/Aquatic/Flight form I should instantly shift into Moonkin form without suffering an additional cast time or gcd.
Marius W. Sep 16th 2011 6:55PM
My only and only alt is a boomkin and the only reason I rolled a druid was to be a boomkin.
I love it.
I don't think it should be a choice as your choice was made when you rolled for a druid and chose balance.
I also think tree form needs to come back full time.
When I rolled druid and went balance, I didn't know about the eclipse system.
It sucks! It sucks hardcore.
It feels like punishment. I did something wrong by using a certain spell and now my dps will suffer cause of it and it takes a good amount of time to get out of that punishment.
Id love if they got rid of the eclipse system entirely.
Just give us a rotation that doesn't rely on being in a sunny day or a starry night.
You don't see a lot of boomkins in the game now. It's a bad system and it needs to be eliminated.
David Sep 17th 2011 6:02AM
So those who want rid of Moonkin form shouldn't be given a choice because already made one...
But you didn't know about the Eclipse mechanic when you picked Balance and as a result feel entitled to having it removed?
Do you see the contradiction?
Some people, though I'm sure they are in the minority, may have not known about moonkin when they chose balance. Others, like me, may have been balance before Moonkin was implemented (for what little it was worth back then).
Not having a go at you but felt I had to highlight that.
Tyler Caraway Sep 17th 2011 12:26PM
There was no Moonkin Form when I made my druid.
I played for over a year without having it before I was forced into seeing it for going on six years now.
When did I make this choice?
Marius W. Sep 17th 2011 12:30PM
I didn't know that.
Okay. I take that back for those who went balance before there was a boomkin form.
Fletcher Sep 16th 2011 8:31PM
Now I have never managed to get a druid above level 18, but a low-level druid is a druid nonetheless, so here are *my* ideas:
1) Kill moonkin form. Make it a glyph, make it a cooldown, make it anything that means I can look at pretty pretty druid tier gear instead of fat laserchicken butt, and I might be convinced to pick up a druid again. Moonkin are cute, but when I want cute I roll a gnome. Gnomes can actually customize their appearances!
2) Give hunters a moonkinstalker tier set.
3) ?????
4) Profit.