My guild has only been able to down Shannox on Normal. Call us whatever you want (casual, bad, RL friends), but I'm pretty darn happy right now. I'm really looking forward to seeing more of the content.

I am surprised they nerfed heroics, but it really doesn't effect me at all.

Yay more name calling by people who think that having 20 hours a week to dedicate to WoW is some kind of skill.

DERP BADS DERP DERP

It's people like you that make me hate the WoW community.

"BADS"

Can people like you possibly learn to make your point without talking like a five-year-old?

BADDIE BADDIE BAD BAD. Christ, man.

"Yay more name calling by people who think that having 20 hours a week to dedicate to WoW is some kind of skill."

The opinion that you have to spend unreasonable amounts of time playing the game to be good is just as stupid as the opinion that all casual players are bad. You can play for only a few hours every few nights and still make very good progress by spending minimal time looking at guides on how to gem or enchant your class/rotations/etc.

That's a bad ass comment. Too bad it's black. That's a bad look.

Lorne I feel so embarrassed for you...

@Diop:

It still all comes down to having enough time to dedicate to raiding. Case in point, Paragon, one of the most highly skilled guilds out there (according to some) taking 500 attempts to down heroic Ragnaros. Yeah, they're good players, but they also put a ton of time into it.

Regardless of how little time normal raiding takes a week, there are always going to be players who don't have that much time to spare, and assuming they're worse at the game because of it is asinine. Whatever amount of time investment normal raiding takes, LFR will (hopefully) take less, opening up more content to more players. I don't see that as a bad thing.

And for the record, your example is pretty close to what I said to begin with; a few hours (3 to 4) a few days (3 to 4) works out to 9 to 16 hours a week. Add in time preparing for raids, getting supplies, and (as you mentioned) researching fights, gear, gemming, and enchants, and I don't think my 20 hour estimate is that far off.

@ Daedalus

At least the first 3 bosses in normal mode Firelands can be dropped with as little as 3 hours a week. Throw in just a second day after that and it's possible to eventually drop the next 2 after a few weeks. The biggest time constraint is all that trash, IMO.

I haven't been able to kill a single boss, people don't PUG me without achievement. I hope this helps to fix this a little :)