Ol' Grumpy and the Goblet of Firelands adjustments

So, this time I've been called back into service to talk about the recent Firelands adjustments, or as I like to call them, significant nerfs. Quite frankly, my take on these is a bit more nuanced than the last time, so I sadly won't get to grump around as much as I prefer. Frankly, there are several key differences between this series of nerfs and the ones to T11 content that make the situation a little less cut-and-dried.
- This time, both normal and heroic content is being nerfed. Last time, normal mode fights were nerfed across the board, but heroic content was left unchanged so that people who wanted to experience it at the original challenge level could do so. This is a decision I lauded at the time, and I find the different implementation this time kind of baffling.
- We got half as much time with tier 12 as we did tier 11 before the changes. Now, to some degree this isn't an entirely fair comparison because we also had to level from 80 to 85 before we got a chance to do tier 11, and in addition there were 13 total fights in tier 11 content plus a bonus heroic only encounter. Tier 12 has eight, seven in Firelands and one in Baradin Hold that barely even counts. But it still seems very early to nerf this content.
- These are some serious nerfs to content that is still relevant. Unlike the T11 changes, which took place as T12 dropped, these fights are still the fights that we're all doing. There's nothing to replace them, no place for the players who have done it before the nerfs to go if they want to stay on the cutting edge of content. This is the cutting edge, and it's now between 15% and 25% less sharp.
Today's most relevant content
I think it deserves to be said again: This is not nerfing outdated content to make people want to do it; this is nerfing the most relevant content the game currently has to offer. Reducing the health and damage for Firelands normal and heroic in this way implies that either Firelands was tuned higher than most raiders were ready for (an assertion I personally would not have supported), or we'll be seeing new content pretty soon, or both. When perusing the comments for the post we did announcing the changes, I was at first surprised and then thoughtful about the number of posters who said they simply had not cleared Firelands yet at the three-month mark.
What I'm seeing people talk about is the amount of trash that needs to be cleared vs. raid time, the basic summer curse we're all familiar with, and the learning curves for specific boss mechanics. I think these are all fair points. In the interest of full disclosure, I'll admit that I've been raiding Firelands since it dropped and clearing heroic modes for over a month, putting me squarely in the middle of the road for raid progression. So for me, these are issues that haven't interrupted my progress through Firelands. But to be fair, I left a less progressed guild that hadn't even completed all of tier 11 a week or so before Firelands dropped, and that guild's lack of progression wasn't based on skill or lack thereof but rather on time and player availability.
Frankly, releasing a major raid in the middle of summer means you have to expect a lot of difficulty filling the rosters. It all snowballs from there, really. A raid night missed for whatever reason tanks progression. If you raid two or three nights a week, missing one of those nights is proportionally bigger than if you raid four, especially if you generally have to raid with whoever shows up like a lot of smaller guilds do. It's not even the case that the content itself is too hard, but time factors compound with each missed raid.
Restel Syndrome
Combine this with new mechanics that are unique to each fight, and I think what we're looking at is the Restel Syndrome. Named for a friend and excellent player I've known for years, Restel Syndrome is when raid design excellence (I'm on record as finding each Firelands fight to be at least solid if not outright brilliantly designed) causes a steeper learning curve that simply cannot tolerate any sort of raid delay or missed learning chance.
The fact that Firelands is seven really well designed boss fights with unique mechanics means that there's no Loot Reaver, no Gunship, no "here's some loot for showing up" bosses that don't take much learning. While you may view a particular Firelands boss as that for your guild, in my discussions with other players, I've noticed a lot of variation as to which boss is easier for what guild. Some struggle on Rhyolith, while others blew right through him. Some love Alysrazor, while others hate the fight. Beth'tilac is equally lauded as easy as it is cursed and bemoaned.
These factors combine and cause each raid to find its progression stymied at different rates. I know excellent guilds that have fallen apart over a perceived or real lack of progress in Firelands, guilds that have been together for years and faced all the challenges of the last couple of expansions and their raid content. Is it my belief that Firelands is an inherently harder raid? No, not at all. But it is my belief that it is providing unexpected roadblocks for guilds of all sizes and styles of play, from the hardcore raider to the semi-casual and down to people who only experience raid content when they pug it. With the emphasis on accessibility that the Raid Finder will provide, this seems to me to be a similar kind of change as the recent threat changes -- a Band-Aid intended to get more people into Fireland while it is still relevant.
The message behind the nerfs
Looking at it from that perspective, do I think this a good change or a bad one? Well, I personally think it's too severe and for that reason would call it a bad change. But I'm not opposed to the basic idea of making such a change to relevant content; I just would have been significantly more conservative in the initial application. I also believe this means those patch 4.3 previews we've been seeing may go live as soon as the end of next month, perhaps just after BlizzCon. Nerfs this big say "This content is less relevant than you think" to me.
In the end, I find these changes baffling and more extreme than was necessary, but I think they might have been inevitable based on how few guilds actually cleared all the content and got into heroic modes. With 4.3 already showing us its hand, so to speak, it may be that the Firelands' time in the sun is almost over.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Raiding, Hotfixes
Patch 5.2 interview with Dave Kosak
Inside an old alt's vault
The latest patch 5.2 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news





Reader Comments (Page 3 of 6)
Blayze Sep 22nd 2011 8:28AM
Agreed. Nerfs are better sooner than later, as it means my guild and I don't get stuck with one tier of raid content until 4.3.
Natsumi Sep 22nd 2011 10:22AM
I'd have to agree with Hollow here.
Arizor Sep 21st 2011 6:38PM
My guild is in an awkward middle. We're not ultra hardcore, raiding 5 hours, 6 days a week, but we're not at the more casual end either. I think I remember reading (or hearing?) that they said they were nerfing it because a lot of the top guilds have now cleared everything.
We managed to get 6/7 heroic before the nerfs, and I have to say I'm a bit sad Raggy was nerfed before we actually started getting down to progressing on him. I know I'm in the minority here but tonight (UK, so reset night), we managed to clear every boss bar the firelord, on heroic, with time to spare: all of them seemed a cake walk compared to before and it seemed like all the challenge and fun had been sucked uncerimoniously from the encounters. Where before they felt so well tuned (highly subjective, I know) now they were simply boring.
Don't get me wrong, I'm really really pleased that guys and gals that don't have a million hours a week to raid will now get to see all of firelands, while the content is still current. To many of my friends in other guilds this will be a blessing and they'll get to experience the thrills of the fights just like I could, which I think is 100% right.
My only qualms is that it just feels so sudden and stark a nerf, while the next patch isnt even on the PTR yet. Maybe a toggle-able ICC sort of gradually rising buff would've been more apropriate, then at least different groups can customise their preferred difficulty.
I dont really know what Im trying to say. Just my two different thoughts: on the one hand, joy for those that can experience FL now and not later, and sadness for those that now don't really have much to work on, with no new patch in sight. Good luck, whichever one you are :)
Matthew Sep 21st 2011 6:54PM
You got 6/7 on heroic? Wow! You are an excellent raider my friend! I think you're not giving yourself enough credit.
MY guild is noncasual / non hardcore, and we're not at that level. hehe.
Cheers! I mean it!
Arizor Sep 21st 2011 7:11PM
Hehe thanks Matthew.
I think the "non casual / non hardcore" term is employed by a very wide range of guilds, probably in shameful truth to avoid the stigmas of either "Ooh Casual, you can't move out of fire, play 10 minutes a week, don't really care about the game and have no skill!" or "Ooh Hardcore, you raid 100 hours a week, have no life, live in your parent's basement and hate people that can't live up to your standards!".
We do 3 hours, four nights a week with the aim of clearing hard mode content, fyi :)
Lemons Sep 21st 2011 7:53PM
Oh you're not ultra hardcore? So I guess you only raid 5 days a week for 4 hours a night?
Seriously tho...if you're 6/7 HM before the nerfs ur guild is pretty damn hardcore. The best guilds on my server have only recently gotten 6/7.
The Lesser Evil Sep 22nd 2011 2:23AM
"We're not ultra hardcore, raiding 5 hours, 6 days a week, but we're not at the more casual end either."
Wait, is that 5 hours spread over 6 days (casual) or 30 hours a week (5 on each 6 days)? Because the latter would pretty much qualify you for ultra hardcore. O.o
Arizor Sep 22nd 2011 5:42AM
Ohhhh >.< only just saw how it could be misinterpreted. I meant we're not ultra hardcore, wherein a hardcore guild would raid 5 hours a night, 6 nights a week, so 30 hours.
Natsumi Sep 22nd 2011 10:41AM
@Arizor
First off, the only time the "ultra Hardcore" guild raid like that is when racing for world/region/server firsts. I know for a fact that Premonition was going for 24 hours day 1 and at least 12 hour for the next few days after Cata came out (being a Sen'jin native you get to see how crazy they are sometimes when it comes to this stuff) but after that they raid only about 2 nights a week for a couple hours, and are rarely on other than that unless they are leveling alts or farming for raids.
Secondly, at 6/7H you are anything but casual. Raiding 3 hours a night, 4 days a week is the very definition of Hardcore. My guild raids more than that, but we're also raiding T11 content to gear people up for Firelands, we really only spend about 4-5 hours TOTAL a week. No, we're not in Heroic modes, no we haven't killed Ragnaros, but we don't screw around in there either. IIRC the guild was 4/7 Firelands when half of the raiders either left the guild or quit WoW altogether (having just rerolled on the new server after it happened).
Gratz on 6/7H though, I hear Heroic Ragnaros took the biggest beating of all.
Angus Sep 21st 2011 6:41PM
My guild was barely beating Shannox. We were getting everyone experience with the fight which meant slow build up. Considering we weren't done with T11 when Firelands started I considered it ok.
Some guilds just took longer to progress. We will be glad for the boost.
tenaciousmonkey Sep 21st 2011 7:10PM
Agreed. My guild groups been able to down Shannox, but we just downed Beth Saturday night and had our butts handed to us by Rhy. This is actually the first tier that we've even attempted when it's relevant (we didn't do T11 until after 4.2), so it's a boon for us. Looking forward to attempting it this week and seeing how far we go.
Angus Sep 22nd 2011 9:35AM
We 1-shot Shannox,
And had a new player in again. Much less pain doing that.
First
Time Beth, got her in 5 tries or so. The mechanics hung us up until we decided to play to our strengths. Hard fight for us, would not have been done for at least 3 weeks before considering how we work.
Rhyolith took 3 or so attempts. New steering lead may have been the most important part there, the adds were also easier for us to deal with. I don't feel like we were handed this boss. We had been working on him for weeks. The better steering was more imporant than anything else.
I am going to say I am glad for the nerfs. Now o get our Mage a pretty staff.
Hmmmm. I think that last bit might be important. All the hardcore 25 man guilds have staves. The 10 man casuals just plain don't have a chance at them. Maybe they wanted to change that.
Katherine Sep 21st 2011 6:46PM
We had Ragnaros 10N down to 22% (he dies at 10% so really it was 12%) on Monday, we probably only needed another week. This is a slap in the face.
Katherine Sep 21st 2011 6:49PM
I mean obviously the rest of firelands needed nerfing (maybe not staghelm :P) so that others could progress, but I don't think anyone working on Ragnaros or nearly working on Ragnaros wanted a 25% nerf right now.
Rubicon Sep 21st 2011 6:48PM
Hooray for the Nerfs! I got 5/7 last night!
Matthew Sep 21st 2011 6:52PM
I'm surprised there is no 'guy you can talk to to remove the nerf' like there was in ICC.
Actually as I write that, I realize that was a guy to talk to to remove the buff. Not the nerf to the enounters.
The only reason I'm keeping this post up is to let other people know you might, like me, have thought there was a guy to talk to to remove the nerf but you're wrong.
And I'm right. Right now at least.
Arizor Sep 21st 2011 7:13PM
Surely there must be something pschologically more attractive about getting a buff you can toggle, where you as a player become more powerful, compared to a nerf you can toggle that makes your opponent weaker. Dunno.
---
Thanks for your earlier reply :)
jfofla Sep 21st 2011 6:58PM
Why is it not apparent what is happening?
Blizzard is at war with Bioware. At stake is a significant amount of money.
Bioware will release SWTOR in December, Blizzard will counter with 4.3, a huge content patch, and Diablo III.
Blizzard's second broadside to Bioware will be the release of MoP, with Pandas as playable race for both Factions.
These are not your father's release schedules, content will be fast and furious.
And no, this schedule is not rushed. Everything Blizzard is doing today was planned out three or four years ago to combat SWTOR.
Natsumi Sep 22nd 2011 11:01AM
Star Wars is on schedule to be out BEFORE December, likely before Thanksgiving.
I think 4.3 will be out even before that. I actually expect it before Halloween, and possibly the Tuesday following Blizzcon. I have a feeling that Diablo 3 will hit at the same time as Star Wars.
The rest of your post is speculation and fanboyism. You're starting to sound like that RIFT fanboy on the Massivly boards, "Everything RIFT is good, EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS!! You should all stop wasting time with those other substandard MMOs and play RIFT with me."
WoW is good, Blizzaed has made HUGE strides to improve the genre, to the point that WoW is now the "bar" that other companies look to when making their games. Bioware (not EA, they're evil and don't care about their consumers, kind of like another giant gaming company that is "allied" with Blizzard) has a very similar outlook as Blizzard does, they feel that the PLAYERS are as important as the REVENUE that they bring in. They are also trying to make the best game they can without compromising the integrity of the Star Wars universe (2 Billion Star Wars fans will be ready to burn down EA and Bioware if they really eff this one up, which I can honestly say they haven't)
Rolly Sep 22nd 2011 1:13PM
This is the first time I've seen Blizzard blink first though.
Usually in the past they'd drop all the info on a patch the day of or day after a competitors big announcement.
So this tells me they're a bit worried.