Ready Check: Looking into DKP loot systems

Welcome back, raiders. In our last edition, we talked about the importance of having a solid loot system as a part of a solid raiding team. Loot is the end result of playing this game, no matter which sector it is that you choose to focus on. Having a great distribution system for all the shiny trinkets that your raid stumbles across insider the corpses of giant beasts helps to ensure that everything runs smoothly. As was mentioned last week, each loot system is judged based on how equally it distributes loot as well as how well it rewards player participation.
This week, we'll be taking a look at one of the more common loot systems that you come across in WoW and how they all rank. Remember, loot distribution is always something that should be taken seriously, but more than that, there is no one right answer. Which system works for one raid group might not pan out for another. The ultimate goal is to avoid any and all loot problems in a raid; provided that a system avoids that, then the rest doesn't matter.
What is a DKP system?
We'll start off easy by going with perhaps the most well known of all the loot systems. DKP, or Dragon Kill Points, is an artificial currency-style loot system. There are tons and tons of variations on the classic DKP system out there, and which it is that you come across all depends on the person who created it. At the core, DKP is merely using an imaginary set of tokens or points in order to bid on dropped items; from there, everything branches out.
The first snag of any DKP system comes in point generation. Originally, DKP was a system that rewarded players exclusively based upon kills that they were present for (hence the name). Over the years, this philosophy has generally fallen off to the wayside. While some raiding groups may still use the classic method of awarding points to players based on each boss they are present for a kill on, most instead focus on rewarding players for other matters. Generally, we see DKP awarded for attending raids, rather than based off what occurs within the raid. This is done to create a more equitable system.
The boss-kill reward system has one major flaw: It doesn't reward progression. Sticking it out for a boss that the raid has been struggling on doesn't reward the player anything, although the raid leader might be considerate and award the raiders attempt DKP for their efforts. Even with those rewards, a player will usually earn far more DKP by showing up on a farm night and not for a progression night. This can potentially lead to a major issue where raiders stop showing up for progression because they aren't amply rewarded for doing so. For this reason, most raids have shifted to the flat DKP gain based on attendance.
Overall, DKP is normally a highly equitable system in that it offers no special treatment toward any one raid member. Remember that DKP is an imaginary number, ergo what number it is doesn't really matter. You can choose to reward players 100 or 1 DKP every single raid; neither makes a difference. The flaw with DKP systems, however, is inflation, which is easier to combat with smaller numbers. Keep that in mind.
The struggle against inflation
Inflation is a strange word in our day and age, and it is equally strange to hear it applied to a video game system. As I mentioned, inflation is perhaps the largest flaw that any DKP system risks. In theory, you want DKP to be a zero-sum system (although that should not be confused with zero-sum DKP, which is a method of point distribution). Essentially, the goal is to attempt to ensure that just as many points come out of any DKP system as go into it. You want to avoid any group of players from hoarding DKP.

Keep it short; keep it small. It's much easier to create a system based around hoarding when you offer up large amounts of DKP. The more you limit DKP, the more precious each point becomes. By slowing the progression of hoarding, you prevent it from ever occurring.
Enforce scaling minimums. Most DKP systems have a form of minimum bid that can be placed on an item. A good way to combat inflation is to have this minimum scale based on the current total DKP a player has. This way, hoarding becomes more and more expensive.
Avoid phantom DKP. There are plenty of times when raid leaders like to reward players for their efforts. Downing a particularly difficult new boss sometimes feels like it should be worth more because of the time it took to get it. Adding in DKP to a system is a fast way to corrupt it.
While I don't generally like DKP systems, they can usually work rather well provided that you are cautious in dealing with inflation. Remember, keep your numbers small; smaller numbers are always easier to work with. The easiest way to avoid inflation is to make inflation impossible. While that seems an unobtainable goal, there are ways to reach it.
The matter of price fixing
Another flaw in DKP systems that you need to watch out for is price fixing. Many DKP systems are reliant upon the raid as a whole in order to work fairly. Price fixing is a method where players conspire together in order to bid low on specific items that they share so that they retain more DKP for those items which they have competition against. Normally you will see this occur within classes or perhaps for certain item types.
The most common DKP fixing occurs for items that are more specific such as rogue daggers, hunter bows, or other items that only a limited number of raiders would use, like caster leather. All of the players who want this item will all agree to bid a certain amount of DKP, often their minimum allowed bid. In this way, they ensure that none of them spend an exorbitant amount of DKP for an item with little competition, leaving them able to bid high on items they have to fight multiple people for such as tier pieces.
It's a sad fact, but most DKP systems simply cannot be rigged to combat this type of system; the only true solution is to confront the offenders to try and force them to change their methods, but even that is not a guarantee that they'll stop. There are types of DKP systems that inherently prevent this behavior, such as suicide DKP, but for the most part, you have to rely upon your raiding team to act fairly. Keeping DKP values low with relatively restrictive minimums is one method of preemptively curbing this in a standard DKP system.
Zero sum DKP systems
I had mentioned zero sum DKP earlier; now let's go into what that is. Zero sum DKP is a system of DKP acquisition that attempts to create a normalized system in which here everyone in the raid floats toward a natural value of zero DKP. Essentially, each item is assigned a value of DKP, usually either 10 or 25 depending on the number of raiders, and players then spend that DKP in order to get an item. DKP is only earned when players spend DKP. For example, Druid A wants a staff that drops and pays 25 DKP for it. Everyone in the raid, including Druid A, now gains 1 DKP; 25 DKP was spent, and there are 25 raiders with the total DKP being divided equally among all raid members.

Zero sum, while still somewhat popular, is not a very good DKP system to follow. It involves a lot of maintenance and rarely delivers on the namesake without artificial interference. I'm of the opinion that you should avoid zero sum DKP systems, but many people like them, so if you want to go for it, then go for it.
Suicide DKP systems
Another, slightly newer DKP system is suicide DKP. Suicide DKP operates upon the same basis as the common Suicide Kings loot system. In it, DKP is awarded virtually however the raid leader would like, through kills, attendance, loots, what have you. Players stock up on their DKP, but every item costs all of their remaining DKP, granting the notion of "suicide." The player who receives the loot is the one with the most DKP on hand yet automatically loses all of that DKP upon getting it. Effectively, this method of DKP totally destroys inflation and hoarding; players are instead pushed to spend their DKP early and often, as higher numbers aren't any more valuable than lower ones.
While very effective at removing all the issues commonly associated with standard DKP systems, suicide DKP has one flaw of its own: a heavy reliance on rolls. Given that most players will be at zero at any given time, you'll often come across multiple people wanting the same item who have the same DKP value. At this point, the solution is to have a roll-off to determine who ends up winning the loot. You'll come across this rather frequently, which makes the system seem more like a modified roll distribution instead of a real DKP system.
The problem of off-spec items
One last problem with most DKP systems that I have not mentioned is the matter of off-spec gear. Hybrid characters generally don't use two different specs for their given role; often times, they spec into two different roles that require completely different gearing. Worse yet, there may be times where the raid calls upon these players to actively use their secondary specs, normally asking a hybrid DPSer switch to tanking or healing. These players need to have the loot to support these roles, yet getting it is an issue.
In any DKP system, there can never be "free" items. Giving out items for no DKP creates a vacuum in the system and it leaves it open to abuse. Instead, you always have to charge these players something for the item that they want. While fair, it can be highly frustrating for hybrid players, as they often feel they are being punished for helping to support the raid. Sadly, there is no easy solution to this problem. Again, DKP must always be charged for items regardless of their intended use; the best that you can do is to attempt to mitigate the damage that is done.
Having a lower minimum for these players to spend in order to gain off-spec items helps in most traditional DKP systems. Yet doing this also opens up the system to abuse by players getting main-spec items cheaper than they would normally. For zero sum, there is no easy solution, and often this is one of the primary causes of inflation and hoarding within the system. Suicide DKP somewhat circumvents the matter as all players are often thrust back to zero, but it leaves the players feeling constantly stuck at the zero mark. The best you can do is to do your best to help mitigate the damage in any way you can.
Remember to join us next week where we explore yet another common loot system.
Ready Check shares all the strategies and inside information you need to take your raiding to the next level. Be sure to look up our strategy guides to Cataclysm's 5-man instances, and for more healer-centric advice, visit Raid Rx.
Filed under: Raiding, Ready Check (Raiding)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
michaelcwright1 Sep 23rd 2011 5:17PM
EminentDkp.
Great addon and great discussion about why it works so well (linked on curse website)
Hinalover Sep 23rd 2011 5:58PM
I was actually part of Eminent and the mod for this system works wonders especially the GUI version that was released half-way through T11. What the mod does is sets a max limit of what everyone can have, and you can spend on what you think the item is worth in a closed Auction (you don't see what others have bid). The winning price will be downgraded to the second-highest bid and will be divided by the rest of the raid evenly. If you are the only person who bids on the item, you get the item for free. The price will eventually go down.
The only problem with the mod is that the creator of the mod no longer is part of Eminent. Recently the guild partly disbanded and went from a 25-man guild to a 10 man guild, and the creator of the mod left when that happened (server transferred/faction-changed). So I'm not sure how much longer that mod will last.
moobinator Sep 23rd 2011 5:25PM
On the Zero Sum DKP going with baseline you will have the issue of inflation.
But we use a Decay system, any item that was purchased over a period of time drops off the list, any gains or losses due to that item purchase are removed, we use about 3 months.
This prevents anyone from hoarding points as they will eventually go away and encourages people to spend points because there lose will eventually go away.
This also prevents previous tier content purchases from stopping people from purchasing new tier items as the DKP is usually at a nominal level.
As for Offspec items we do not allow the use of DKP for these items but the offspec item is given if no one Bids on it (we have set class roles, and is up to the raid leader to make a decision), would rather it go to an offspec class then get sharded.
MikeLive Sep 23rd 2011 5:34PM
"Loot is the end result of playing this game, no matter which sector it is that you choose to focus on"
And therein lies, what I believe, the biggest problem in WoW.
MossyRock Sep 23rd 2011 5:37PM
This articles supposed people 'bid' various amounts for their items in dkp.
But from the earliest forms of dkp, item were worth flat amount, you just determined if you want the item or not, highest got it, and paid the value of the item.
I've just seen a lot of people get wrapped up in dkp=auction and they don't like that part of it. As soon as you get them to realize there is no auction, they are okay with it.
meringue Sep 23rd 2011 6:06PM
I really like my guild's dkp system. We have a fixed amount of DKP awarded for attending raids, whether in the zone or on backfill and available. Items have a set cost; there is no bidding. The thing that really makes it work, though, is the caps. There is a cap at the high end and a cap at the low end, so dkp hoarding doesn't work past a set point plus if you join the raid as un undergeared recruit and pick up 10 items in one night, your dkp resets to 0 for the next raid and you aren't crawling out of that hole for the rest of the tier. We've had great success with our system. :)
Ironhammer Sep 23rd 2011 6:12PM
I like the Effort Points/Gear Points (EPGP) system. It's flexible enough to include changing rosters, is resistant to inflation and player collusion, and doesn't rely much on random rolls. It also allows people to gear up their off-spec without hurting their main spec loot chances.
Everyone in the raid collects a steady flow of EP every 15 minutes they participate. As they acquire loot, they are assigned GP for the item. The ratio of the two (EP divided by GP) determines their priority when more than one person wants an item. The person with the highest priority gets the item, thereby lowering their priority among their peers for the next item. Both EP increase and GP increase, neither are spent. At the start of a new raid tier, the numbers are reset to arbitrary minimum values.
Xap Sep 23rd 2011 6:14PM
The problem I have with loot systems is when there is also social pressure to pass loot to players who "need it more" for the "good of the raid". I call BS right there.
You want to have people passing loot, CODIFY IT IN THE RULES. None of this "Please sir, after you." "No I insist sir, after _you_" garbage. If it's part of the stated loot rules, great. Otherwise, it makes me a little less interested before.
At best, this is unfortunately covered by, "and of course the GL has the last word", meaning their buddy gets the loot.
(Yes this happened, no I wasn't involved as a loot candidate or officer or anything really.)
ejunk Sep 23rd 2011 6:17PM
great article. we use a basic, "classic" DKP system, but participation in any organized guild event (raids, achievement night, our AWESOME push for server first guild level 25 [we did it!], rated BGs night, etc) will earn a player DKP. it's worked very well. I'm intrigued by the suicide DKP system, but it seems like that is a best fit for seriously progression minded guilds rather than a guild like ours, which is pretty casual. again, great article!
Edge00 Sep 23rd 2011 6:23PM
In my opinion, half the fun of dkp is when you have several people who want the same item and a bidding war starts.
Mihir Sep 23rd 2011 6:34PM
My guild uses a fixed-price, dkp awarded per hour of raiding system, with offspec items being free (/roll). It's been working very well for us for multiple years now, with almost no complaints.
Chance Sep 23rd 2011 6:41PM
The guild I'm in is fairly casual and we just use /rolls and it usually works out fine. We've only had one issue of a person getting upset. A mage (who already outgeared the entire raid) rolled against my warlock for the caster dagger in Firelands. I won the roll and the mage began to go on for hours about how he should have gotten it because 3 months ago (at the time) I won the wand that he wanted as well, neglecting to reflect on the fact that 1) we are a MS over OS /roll guild (he has been a member for over a year and is well aware of this) and 2) that he not only won the helm from omnitrion and shoulders from atramedes, but in the same night won the helm and shoulder tokens from the end bosses and sharded the other 2 pieces without even offering those 2 offset pieces to the other clothies (we were under the 2 hour trade limit time for both items).
He has since started becoming more and more infrequent with his raid attendance and nobody else has ever complained about loot. Most of the raiders continue to show up every night, and we are all friendly with eachother. Recently I won a necklace in a roll and noticed that another member was way less geared than myself and I in turn passed it to him, situations like this happen often between us. We also all agreed to not free roll on BoEs and instead have them sold on the AH to fund the guild bank or if they can be used, given to backup raiders/alts who raid in other guild groups.
Not saying this system would work for everybody, or even most people, but if your group is composed primarily of even headed people who respect eachother then there is nothing wrong with a /roll system. Just be wary of those crazed mages who are completely fine with the system until they get a low roll. :p
michiel.weggen Sep 23rd 2011 6:46PM
To add more details, a price has been determined for each item, in such a way that all classes will spend the same total amount of dkp to acquire a full set of gear from a certain raid instance, while taking into account the relative value of that slot of gear to that class/spec. For example, everyone pays 90 dkp for head/chest/legs slot items, but for a ranged slot item, hunters pay 160 dkp while other classes only pay 30 dkp.
DKP is awarded per hour, not per kill, with a start and end of raid bonus. So if we raid 4 hours on a certain evening, everyone who attended the full raid will get 4x2 dkp, + 2x2 dkp for the start and end = 12 dkp total.
Offspec items are being handled by /roll, except when we're gearing up certain offpspecs for a progress fight (for example resto druids getting boomkin gear for Ragnaros heroic).
And lastly we have the upgrade and BIS rules. Upgrade rule allows players to get a cost reduction on items if they have already taken an item for that slot. This was mainly added to prevent small upgrades from being disenchanted cause everyone wants to save dkp for the BIS items. The BIS rule allows you to post a BIS list on the forums, and will give you priority on those items over players who don't have that item in their BIS list, regardless of DKP.
Ben Sep 24th 2011 1:56AM
epgp ftw. has worked great for us.
Joe Thomas Sep 25th 2011 6:10AM
our Guild uses basically the "Suicide DKP" system and we found it the best system. The downside you point out where players have to roll off does not seem to come up often since our guild has been raiding since WoW:BC. Most of the time when loot drops there is one person with more DKP than the other. It seems to be the best way to distribute loot evenly while still rewarding those who show up more often.