Breakfast Topic: How would you design a true hybrid role?
by Michael Szczotka 
Sep 25th 2011 at 8:00AM
Lately there has been a lot of talk in the World of Warcraft about the state of the holy trinity of class roles in the game. There have been talks on whether to add extra support roles such as CC classes to a list of available roles (this being difficult due to the hurry-up-and-grind mentality of much of the community). My thoughts for the day are what I see as a potential revamp in the way the game currently handles hybrids.
I have always been a fan of bizarre specs. In Wrath, I had a dual-wielding resto shaman who utilized Maelstrom weapon procs to churn out instant Chain Heals to the group while maintaining a semi-respectable DPS output. When Cataclysm came out, I was thrilled at the aspect of an priest Atonement build to churn out DPS while aiding the group with a few smart heals. Once again, the Holy Trinity reared its ugly head, and I realized that due to being a disc build, I would be forced into a healing-only role with DPS in the downtime.
If you could change any mechanic for a class to facilitate the ability to perform a true hybrid playstyle, what would it be? One example I can personally think of would be change the balance druid Eclipse mechanic to boost healing done while under an increase to nature damage. This would not apply to Moonkin form due to casting restrictions in form, but this would lead to easier balancing as well. Stick to boomkin to nuke out DPS, or stay in caster to throw out some solid, boosted heals.
What would you change up to make hybrids more hybrid-y?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics, Guest Posts
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
sharlatan Sep 25th 2011 8:06AM
Ditch retarded 31 points in tree crap, allows more mixing of talent trees.
Only real hybrid in game is a feral druid.
You want to see hybrids done well? Go play support roles in rift. Shamicars, cholochons, bards....thats how you do hybrid roles.
Fletcher Sep 25th 2011 8:35AM
"Shamicars"? "Colochons"? These sound like the anatomy of antique furniture, not classes. "The colochon on this shamicar is positively Elizabethan! A splendid find! At auction, this might go for, oh, around about ten thousand pounds."
Like it or lump it, Blizzard seems to have moved away from allowing people to double-dip - too much effort to balance, in their words, and too many people doing it to eke out some benefit at the corners where the balancing is broken, rather than for a genuine love of Restomental shaman, Unfrosty DKs or The Arcane Fire. That was the reasoning they gave at the time, in any case.
And Blizzard has always been dead set against support classes, on the grounds that it's cooler to be awesome yourself than to help everyone else be awesome. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride sort of thing. In this analogy the groom would be an internet dragon, so it's maybe not a very good analogy.
Nick Sep 25th 2011 8:43AM
this.
For those that don't know, the bard in rift is a "support" spec, which basically boils down to short term buffs (30 second duration) a powerful cooldown (increases mana/energy/focus regeneration, and thus dps/healing throughput), combo points are built using a channelled low dps spell that also heals the group for the same amount of damage that it does, combo points are spent on a variety of finishers including an AOE heal, a physical damage debuff, a magical damage debuff, a single target attack and an aoe attack. It also has a couple of other spells, such as a cooldown that means finishers can be spammed without using combo points, an instant attack that grants 5 combo points and more.
I cant comment on the other support specs as I only really played my rogue at level 50 - rogue tanking was incredibly fun too! Rift has (had?) a load of potential, I just cant put my finger on why it doesn't feel quite right. It might be the lack of obvious direction at level 50, but I came back to WoW after only a month or 2.
SamLowry Sep 25th 2011 10:15AM
Maybe what's wrong about it is that their devs stole the name from an RPG that had been around for twenty years then acted like jackasses when they were called on it.
Nick Sep 25th 2011 10:38AM
"Maybe what's wrong about it is that their devs stole the name from an RPG that had been around for twenty years then acted like jackasses when they were called on it"
Probably not, the name of a game means literally nothing to me when I am playing it.
rapsam2003 Sep 25th 2011 11:11AM
Yeah, I did a trial period of Rift. I decided I'd try out a warrior (Void Knight/Paladin/Warlord). Now, that was ok. Problem with Rift is that there's so many choices and you have so many talent points that it becomes clunky. I imagine that the devs of Rift are already encountering balance issues, especially in pvp. In pve, I'd imagine it's just becoming apparent that certain classes make better healers or tanks than others.
Furthermore, as nice a support role sounds, it actually sucks in the long run. The only way to do a support role and make it not suck is to play a D&D based game, like the Neverwinter Nights series or Baldur's Gate series. And even then, it sucks. Keeping everyone buffed ultimately means you're not actually bashing on the boss, holding aggro, or healing. You're basically just the cheerleader who clicks buttons. No one's ever going to go, "Yeah, without that bard, we'd have lost the fight." No, they'll go, "We had a bard helping us, which was nice, but I've done that without a bard. We don't really need it." Support roles suck.
Noyou Sep 25th 2011 11:21AM
Bard. But I would blow the doors off the current model. There would be 6/12/30 man instances. Their main weapon would be his mandolin/instrument. It would have the stats like any main weapon. They would charm and persuade and captivate their enemies. Offer up some minor heals and cool buffs and debuffs. If you got close you would get stabbed or bashed with his stringed weapon.
Nick Sep 25th 2011 11:40AM
I love support roles. Its probably for the same reasons I end up with less than 15 points but more than 15 assists in a basketball match. Support roles, in games designed for them, do provide more dps than if that player was dpsing and they provide benefit to healers too.
WoW wasn't designed for them, so they'd ruin the game. Nice to dream about then though
Daco Sep 25th 2011 1:16PM
@Noyou
I can see where a bard-like class might be attractive in certain settings, but I just don't see that fitting in with WoW's style in any way. Indulging in a little RP for a moment, I just imagine the reaction of Arthas, Rag, Deathwing, etc., when a band of 25 epic adventurers venture into their lair, accompanied by some dude plucking a lute like one of Sir Robin's minstrels.
"Onyxia takes in a deep breath... but can't keep a straight face and bursts into laughter"
On the other hand, maybe it would help certain encounters.
SamLowry Sep 25th 2011 2:48PM
And no one would even be thinking about "bards" if it wasn't for the 1985 game, "The Bard's Tale". It was so massively popular that players ever since have insisted on forcing singing characters into games that did not want or need them.
So much for the foolish notion that pen-n-paper games are meaningless today and can be legally overlooked by MMO-makers.
sharlatan Sep 25th 2011 4:02PM
I was not making a rift>wow comment btw, just pointing out that oen thing rift does very well is hybrd roles/
As long as wow sticks with 1 spec /role with 31 points in it, its never going to be hybrid
Nick Sep 26th 2011 7:35AM
@SamLowry,
I wish I had more awareness of video games back then, I had a c64, but spent most of the time playing "shoot em up construction kit" "park patrol" and the Dizzy games. Bards Tale looks cool!
Stella Sep 25th 2011 8:06AM
I'd make both palains and Shaman true hybrids. I'm sure the Paladin's Holy tree could be tweaked to a proper spell DPS spec. Especially as healing now gets 100% extra on crits, they might as well make ALL crits 100% extra.
What I really really really want for my Shaman is the ability to tank as enhancement.
It won't be easy of couse, but if I could come up with a half-a$$ed idea modeled on the Feral combat tree I'm sure Blizzard could do better.
1. Introduce Shaman stances. Call them "essences" and name them after the elements.
1a. "Essence of Air" is the Enhancement DPS stance. Gives bonuses to Agility and Melee Haste.
1b. "Essence of Earth" is the Enhancement Tanking stance. Gives a bonuses to Stamina and Threat and reduces damage taken
And going the whole hog as this is basically little more than me fantasizing:
1c. "Essence of Fire" is the Spell DPS stance. Gives bonuses to spell crit and improves the spell damage bonus from "Flametongue Weapon".
1d. "Essence of Water" is the Healing stance. Gives a bonus to Spirit, spell haste and Deep Healing.
2. Change "Rockbiter Weapon" from a weapon imbue to a Shield imbue.
3. "Lava Lash" transforms to "Magma Strike" when the Shaman is in "Essence of Earth" a la "Holy Word: Chastise". Slams the target with your shield instantly dealing Nature damage and healing you for X% of the damage done. has a high threat multiplier.
4. Add a few tanking talents into Enhancement or wrap them into current DPS talents by tieing them into the stances the way the feral tree does. One of these talents will give the Shaman 6% crit reduction when in "Essence of Earth".
A girl can dream right?
Leland Ford Sep 25th 2011 9:07AM
Being a Shaman myself, you just made me feel all gigity, gigity with that post. That would be awesome.
antonyp Sep 25th 2011 9:42AM
Because totems aren't enough right ?
Amaxe Sep 25th 2011 10:47AM
I like your ideas on stances. If they could replace the whole annoying totem mechanic, that would be great.
rapsam2003 Sep 25th 2011 11:11AM
Or not. A shaman just doesn't seem to fit as a tank, flavor-wise.
Noyou Sep 25th 2011 11:28AM
A shaman tank could work with things they currently have. Totems, ghost wolves, elementals. They would just have to last longer. They could convert agility to STR. Obviously their DPS would be tweaked down. They could have a sub talent at the bottom of the tree that separates DPS from tank. Blizzard says they don't want to ever go back to shaman tanking and I don't agree or disagree, but if they really wanted to do that then why would they leave in the totems, enchants, and abilities that let us to believe otherwise?
Nakama Sep 25th 2011 7:55PM
I would sooo be on board with those shammy changes. Send em in to Blizzard
Calonstiene Sep 26th 2011 10:03AM
I love it! A pal and I came up with almost the same changes to make shaman tanking effective. Our main difference was that we had the weapon imbues themselves serve in the role of your "essences" with the addition of shield imbues separately (Aside: This might also discourage healing and caster shaman from rolling on what are intended as Druid staves which could be good or bad).
They do have some very interesting tools like the Glyph of Stoneclaw Totem that might be buffed to create some fun gameplay. Personally, I think any new tanking class should be veeeeery different though. Maybe they could go with the original idea that shaman can OT, but they would make very weak MTs.