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9-29-2011 @ 7:30PM
Tough to focus on the guild's activities and not politics when that seemed to be what most of the article was about.I'd have thought that frowning on sexism, racism etc is just being civil. Nothing to do with left/right politics but then I'm English and don't know whether your "culture wars" are real or made up by 24hr news.Anyway, interesting stuff... I thought all that "WOW is the new golf" socialising stuff had died a death.
9-29-2011 @ 7:39PM
The culture war in the US is unfortunately as real as it is ridiculous. No one can agree on anything, even the things that every ordinary person should agree to on principle.
9-29-2011 @ 8:39PM
I find it incredibly hard not to comment on the political views of the guild when that is their primary reason for being featured here anyway. To say "while guild chat is mostly non-political, it is also where we express our leftist political views, which sometimes may include a sharp word or two about Republicans. " Is like saying "I'm mostly a balanced, non-discriminatory man, but I occasionally like to pelt black men with rocks".I digress, this guild does certainly stand out, and it's great that older "progressive" people can get together. However, I know a small handful of Religious and Republican guilds that exist as well, but as far as I can recall none of them have ever been featured on WoWinsider. Funny how those things work.
9-29-2011 @ 8:56PM
@BillFrom the article footer: "Know someone else we should feature? Email email@example.com"
9-29-2011 @ 10:07PM
There are culture wars in the US but the only "Soldiers" fighting are on the extreme left and right. They comprise 5% of the population but 90% of the crazy (left and right).
9-30-2011 @ 2:54AM
@Bill: That is not an apt comparison. The Republican chooses his political views; the black man doesn't choose his skin colour.@ the guild, kudos for the feature. I joined you guys briefly, and although I didn't find what I was looking for, it made me happy to know that there are people that cared enough to create a haven from the rampant misogyny, racism, homophobia, and other bullshit that I see so often elsewhere in Wow.
9-30-2011 @ 8:50AM
@spamfest: that's hairsplitting and disingenuous.OK, instead of saying he occasionally throws rocks at black men, he throws them at homosexuals. Better?I'm a staunch Republican and I applaud them for forming their own 'community'. I genuinely hope it makes the game more enjoyable for them.However, 2 points:- the implication is that Republicans and the Right are misogynist, homophobe, and exclusionary. Read this guild's comments carefully and recognize that perhaps Republicans are just a little more honest in recognizing their own foibles?- I find it curious that it's always been the Left that's been downright militant about characterizing such voluntary associations as exclusionary and divisive, not to mention habitually trying to 'invade' them. It's clear that this is not a group that welcomes all members - you're really not welcome if you espouse a different political view, and won't let the random anti-Republican non sequitur go by uncommented.I'm not going to say it rises to the level of tendentious hypocrisy, but I'd hope that the next time they encounter a social association that they aren't welcome into, they might remember that they too have a social group that's exclusionary, AND THAT'S OK.
9-30-2011 @ 9:11AM
@spamfest: If you really want to get into that argument, and I don't believe anyone does, there are studies that have shown that a person's beliefs and prejudices are also genetically influenced.So maybe the 'Republican' didn't choose to think that way, just like the homosexual didn't choose to feel that way and the african didn't choose to look that way.Bill's comments have their merit though. Some of the talk was contradictory - this happens when people talk about not talking about politics. But that doesn't make it okay.
9-30-2011 @ 11:29AM
At one time we had a fair number of more conservative members. And most of them were pretty quiet about politics. But in the end virtually all of them chose to leave and form (or reform) other guilds which had very similar standards to ours, but were entirely apolitical. We still have very friendly relationships with these other guilds and there are quite a few people who have toons in both guilds. The only time I have ever kicked someone from the guild was for using explicitly racially or sexually offensive epithets or for causing undo drama. As an example, frequently in game and in real life, we hear people say, "That's so gay," as a put down. Another common ingame remark might refer to "raping" the opposing faction in a BG. While neither of these is a kickable first offense, the individual responsible should expect to have a long conversation with an officer about why such language usage is offensive to many members of the guild. For the record, I have never had to explain to a fellow progressive why the phrase, "That's so gay" is offensive. Does this mean that we we believe that all those to the right of us politically use this phrase as an insult? Absolutely not! Anyone who asserts otherwise is manufacturing drama here. However, in our collective experience, those that do so have always from the right side of the political spectrum. The website Daily Kos is explicitly for partisan Democrats, and that's where many of us come from. The game is where we relax and play. We like playing Wow, and we like talking about current events from a liberal or progressive or Democratic Party perspective. When we are relaxing, we have no interest in debating the latest from Fox News. We're not a debating society. We're a bunch of Democratic and progressive activists who also play WoW. We are not denying anyone the ability to endorse any candidate or idea. However, if we wanted to play with people who do so, there are thousands of other guilds we could join. We want to talk the nuts and bolts of liberal politics while we play. If that's not your cup of tea, that's fine. Just don't take the fact that we exist as an attack on you personally. So why do we "discriminate" against those on the right? We don't but just as in a guild for vegans or for cat lovers or for Christians, someone who wanted to talk about health benefits of eating meat or the superiority of dogs to cats or why atheism rocks, would end up causing drama, someone who wants to talk about how awesome Rick Perry is or how social security is a ponzi scheme would also end up causing drama. The main issue for us is one that will probably surprise many here. We find that when we know someone in the guild holds such views, we tend to censor ourselves so as not to offend said individual. But this is at cross purposes for the reason for our guild — to be able to comfortably talk about something that we believe in while playing a game we like. This is not to say that a person who doesn't agree with us politically is a bad person, but only that they would do better in a guild of foodies or animal lovers or a guild with no religious foundations. For this reason we are selective about who we admit. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?
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