Patch 4.3: Raid Finder feature preview
by Alex Ziebart 
Sep 29th 2011 at 9:38PM
The Raid Finder will also require at least one player to queue as a raid leader volunteer, so they can be saddled with the responsibility of marking targets, choosing tanks and off tanks, and so on. A little part of my soul blackens every time I think about how much patience would be required to lead a 25-man raid PUG.
Hop after the break to check out the full Raid Finder Q&A.
Raid Finder Coming in Patch 4.3
We are working hard to introduce an exciting new feature to World of Warcraft in patch 4.3: the Raid Finder system. While it presents unprecedented technical hurdles and may change before it's released, we wanted to provide you with an early look at what we hope to accomplish, and share some details that we've worked out, which will lend some insight as to how the new feature is planned to work.
So what is the Raid Finder? It will be a brand new grouping feature that superficially works much like the Dungeon Finder. Instead of five-player dungeons, the Raid Finder is designed to help players quickly and easily form a pick-up raid for a specially tuned version of the current tier of raid content: the Dragon Soul raid. It's not intended to replace organized raiding though. You'll still need friends and guild members to help you conquer the toughest raiding challenges that patch 4.3 has to offer.
As we currently plan to roll out the Raid Finder feature in patch 4.3, level-85 players will be able to use it to access a 25-player version of the Dragon Soul raid dungeon, which will culminate in a glorious battle against Deathwing himself. Dragon Soul will be split into three different difficulties. The Raid Finder provides access to a new tier of difficulty, which in this case has split the raid into two wings, each containing four boss encounters. Meanwhile, raiders will still need to join with friends and guildmates to face the more challenging normal and heroic versions of the raid, since the Raid Finder cannot be used to access those higher difficulty levels. Naturally, because they're harder to defeat, the normal and heroic version of Dragon Soul will drop more powerful lootalong with prestigious rewards such as achievements, titles, and epic mounts. Rich rewards still await those who face the Raid Finder version, which we hope will introduce the thrills and epic experience of raiding to a broader audience than ever before.
You can access the Raid Finder through the 'Raid' button in the menu at the bottom of the default user interface. The Raid Finder should feel familiar to Dungeon Finder users. Just fire it up, select your class role, click the 'Find Raid' button, and get ready to face Deathwing's jaw of doom.
FAQ
Q. Raids aren't dungeons. Who will keep things organized?
A. A Raid Finder raid will require someone to queue as leader. The Raid Finder leader will have a very limited set of powers and cannot change loot type, nor do they have the ability to arbitrarily kick people from the raid. They do have the ability to mark targets and use /raid warning, and can promote other players to be leads as well. To be most successful, each Raid Finder group should have at least one leader who will explain the fights, assign raid markers, and make the tough calls, like who the main tank and off-tanks are.
Q. How will loot be distributed?
A. Automatic rolls and the Need Before Greed loot rules will apply in Raid Finder raids, just as they do in Dungeon Finder instances. Also, while Dungeon Finder raids aren't locked, you are only eligible for loot from a boss once per week. This means that if you were present for the defeat of a boss, whether you receive loot or not, then you will automatically pass on loot that drops during later attempts on that boss during the same week.
Q. How will Raid Finder loot differ?
A. Loot acquired through the Raid Finder, including tier set pieces, will be of a lower item level than items acquired from normal or heroic mode versions of the Dragon Soul raid, and its appearance may differ. Also, there are certain items, as well as components for legendary weapons, which will not drop in Raid Finder raids. While individual bosses will not yield Valor Points as they would in other versions of the raid, you can still earn 250 Valor Points for beating the final boss in each wing of the instance.
Tier armor that drops in Raid Finder raids still provides set bonuses, and those bonuses are compatible with the higher item level versions of the armor available in the normal and heroic mode versions of the raid. None of these tier sets will be available for purchase from a vendor via Valor Points.
Q. Will there be an item level requirement to use the Raid Finder?
A. Yes, accessing raids via the Raid Finder will require that participating characters be level 85 and have attained a certain item level, to help ensure that they are prepared for the content they'll be facing.
Q. Will the Raid Finder be cross-realm?
A. Yes, the Raid Finder will draw players from all realms. As with the Dungeon Finder, it will place some priority on grouping players from the same realm, though not at the cost of increased queue times.
Q. What kind of raid composition will the Raid Finder create?
A. Each Raid Finder raid will include two tanks, six healers, and seventeen damage dealers. As the raid is assembled, the Raid Finder will attempt to balance the group according to armor type, which should help ensure a healthy mix of melee and ranged dps.
Q. Why 25-player only?
A. A 25-player group is actually easier and faster to fill than a smaller group would be, and allows for greater flexibility in raid creation, all of which will help contribute to lower queue times. Also, 25-player raids are less subject to issues with composition or player connectivity.
The Raid Finder version of the Dragon Soul raid will be designed with pick-up raiding in mind. Normal and heroic difficulties will require the greater organization and teamwork found in guild raid groups.
Q. Will I get Call to Arms benefits when using the Raid Finder?
A. We don't currently plan to apply Call to Arms benefits to the Raid Finder, though that may change in the future.
Q. Will I be locked to a raid I join through the Raid Finder?
A. Since the Raid Finder only offers access exclusively to a specially tuned version of the Dragon Soul raid instance, instance locks will not be enforced for that version. Instance locks will still be enforced for the normal and heroic versions of the raid.
Q. Can I queue with my friends in a party or raid?
A. Yes, you can queue for the Raid Finder individually, in a party, or in a raid. The Raid Finder can be a great tool to help fill those last few slots in a raid.
Q. I'm a dedicated raider with an organized group, what good is the Raid Finder to me?
A. Since instance locks aren't in play, Raid Finder raids could provide a way for dedicated raiders to gear up alternate characters, fill gaps in their itemization, finish off elusive set bonuses, or just have some fun while preparing to face the normal or heroic version of the raid on the next reset.
Q. Why aren't other raids available?
A. The Raid Finder is intended to help players experience the current tier of content.Also, many older raids don't require a full complement of raiders, making the Raid Finder unnecessary. This is also the first rollout of the feature and we decided to start things simple, rather than potentially delay the feature's introduction.
If the Raid Finder proves popular, more raid instances may be added to it in the future.
Q. Will Vote Kick still work in the Raid Finder?
A. Yes, though many of the same requirements and restrictions will be in place. For example, kicking too many times can result in a Vote Kick cooldown. Also, the thresholds are different, and several players will need to agree on kicking a candidate before the vote begins. Successful kick votes will require a significant number of Yes votes to pass.
Q. What happens if I leave a Raid Finder raid before it's over?
A. Players who leave the Raid prematurely will receive a Deserter Debuff, though it will likely be of longer duration than the one applied to users of the Dungeon Finder. This debuff will only apply to the Raid Finder system.
So what is the Raid Finder? It will be a brand new grouping feature that superficially works much like the Dungeon Finder. Instead of five-player dungeons, the Raid Finder is designed to help players quickly and easily form a pick-up raid for a specially tuned version of the current tier of raid content: the Dragon Soul raid. It's not intended to replace organized raiding though. You'll still need friends and guild members to help you conquer the toughest raiding challenges that patch 4.3 has to offer.
As we currently plan to roll out the Raid Finder feature in patch 4.3, level-85 players will be able to use it to access a 25-player version of the Dragon Soul raid dungeon, which will culminate in a glorious battle against Deathwing himself. Dragon Soul will be split into three different difficulties. The Raid Finder provides access to a new tier of difficulty, which in this case has split the raid into two wings, each containing four boss encounters. Meanwhile, raiders will still need to join with friends and guildmates to face the more challenging normal and heroic versions of the raid, since the Raid Finder cannot be used to access those higher difficulty levels. Naturally, because they're harder to defeat, the normal and heroic version of Dragon Soul will drop more powerful lootalong with prestigious rewards such as achievements, titles, and epic mounts. Rich rewards still await those who face the Raid Finder version, which we hope will introduce the thrills and epic experience of raiding to a broader audience than ever before.
You can access the Raid Finder through the 'Raid' button in the menu at the bottom of the default user interface. The Raid Finder should feel familiar to Dungeon Finder users. Just fire it up, select your class role, click the 'Find Raid' button, and get ready to face Deathwing's jaw of doom.
FAQ
Q. Raids aren't dungeons. Who will keep things organized?
A. A Raid Finder raid will require someone to queue as leader. The Raid Finder leader will have a very limited set of powers and cannot change loot type, nor do they have the ability to arbitrarily kick people from the raid. They do have the ability to mark targets and use /raid warning, and can promote other players to be leads as well. To be most successful, each Raid Finder group should have at least one leader who will explain the fights, assign raid markers, and make the tough calls, like who the main tank and off-tanks are.
Q. How will loot be distributed?
A. Automatic rolls and the Need Before Greed loot rules will apply in Raid Finder raids, just as they do in Dungeon Finder instances. Also, while Dungeon Finder raids aren't locked, you are only eligible for loot from a boss once per week. This means that if you were present for the defeat of a boss, whether you receive loot or not, then you will automatically pass on loot that drops during later attempts on that boss during the same week.
Q. How will Raid Finder loot differ?
A. Loot acquired through the Raid Finder, including tier set pieces, will be of a lower item level than items acquired from normal or heroic mode versions of the Dragon Soul raid, and its appearance may differ. Also, there are certain items, as well as components for legendary weapons, which will not drop in Raid Finder raids. While individual bosses will not yield Valor Points as they would in other versions of the raid, you can still earn 250 Valor Points for beating the final boss in each wing of the instance.
Tier armor that drops in Raid Finder raids still provides set bonuses, and those bonuses are compatible with the higher item level versions of the armor available in the normal and heroic mode versions of the raid. None of these tier sets will be available for purchase from a vendor via Valor Points.
Q. Will there be an item level requirement to use the Raid Finder?
A. Yes, accessing raids via the Raid Finder will require that participating characters be level 85 and have attained a certain item level, to help ensure that they are prepared for the content they'll be facing.
Q. Will the Raid Finder be cross-realm?
A. Yes, the Raid Finder will draw players from all realms. As with the Dungeon Finder, it will place some priority on grouping players from the same realm, though not at the cost of increased queue times.
Q. What kind of raid composition will the Raid Finder create?
A. Each Raid Finder raid will include two tanks, six healers, and seventeen damage dealers. As the raid is assembled, the Raid Finder will attempt to balance the group according to armor type, which should help ensure a healthy mix of melee and ranged dps.
Q. Why 25-player only?
A. A 25-player group is actually easier and faster to fill than a smaller group would be, and allows for greater flexibility in raid creation, all of which will help contribute to lower queue times. Also, 25-player raids are less subject to issues with composition or player connectivity.
The Raid Finder version of the Dragon Soul raid will be designed with pick-up raiding in mind. Normal and heroic difficulties will require the greater organization and teamwork found in guild raid groups.
Q. Will I get Call to Arms benefits when using the Raid Finder?
A. We don't currently plan to apply Call to Arms benefits to the Raid Finder, though that may change in the future.
Q. Will I be locked to a raid I join through the Raid Finder?
A. Since the Raid Finder only offers access exclusively to a specially tuned version of the Dragon Soul raid instance, instance locks will not be enforced for that version. Instance locks will still be enforced for the normal and heroic versions of the raid.
Q. Can I queue with my friends in a party or raid?
A. Yes, you can queue for the Raid Finder individually, in a party, or in a raid. The Raid Finder can be a great tool to help fill those last few slots in a raid.
Q. I'm a dedicated raider with an organized group, what good is the Raid Finder to me?
A. Since instance locks aren't in play, Raid Finder raids could provide a way for dedicated raiders to gear up alternate characters, fill gaps in their itemization, finish off elusive set bonuses, or just have some fun while preparing to face the normal or heroic version of the raid on the next reset.
Q. Why aren't other raids available?
A. The Raid Finder is intended to help players experience the current tier of content.Also, many older raids don't require a full complement of raiders, making the Raid Finder unnecessary. This is also the first rollout of the feature and we decided to start things simple, rather than potentially delay the feature's introduction.
If the Raid Finder proves popular, more raid instances may be added to it in the future.
Q. Will Vote Kick still work in the Raid Finder?
A. Yes, though many of the same requirements and restrictions will be in place. For example, kicking too many times can result in a Vote Kick cooldown. Also, the thresholds are different, and several players will need to agree on kicking a candidate before the vote begins. Successful kick votes will require a significant number of Yes votes to pass.
Q. What happens if I leave a Raid Finder raid before it's over?
A. Players who leave the Raid prematurely will receive a Deserter Debuff, though it will likely be of longer duration than the one applied to users of the Dungeon Finder. This debuff will only apply to the Raid Finder system.
Brace yourselves for what could be some of most exciting updates to the game recently with patch 4.3. Review the official patch notes, and then dig into what's ahead: new item storage options, cross-realm raiding, cosmetic armor skinning and your chance to battle the mighty Deathwing -- from astride his back!
Filed under: Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 8)
omedon666 Sep 29th 2011 9:41PM
Copy pasted from other discussions I'm having on this topic:
"A Raid Finder raid will require someone to queue as leader ... To be most successful, each Raid Finder group should have at least one leader who will explain the fights, assign raid markers, and make the tough calls, like who the main tank and off-tanks are." So, the encounters will be hard enough that someone will have to tell people how to run the fights. I read this as an admission that the dungeon journal notes will not provide enough information, and wipes will be imminent. I recommend everyone planning to use this feature READ UP ON THE FIGHTS. Don't expect the "I queued on my mage as a leader so I'd get a tank-level queue" player to tell you squat. Don't get me wrong, this implementation makes the most sense to me as well... but we all know that "don't be new on my time" expectations will still potentially come from this limited-power "leader" figure.
"Automatic rolls and the Need Before Greed loot rules will apply in Raid Finder raids, just as they do in Dungeon Finder instances" Let that sink in. Roll need if you need it, for either spec, do not hesitate, because you will not get cross-server consensus on an otherwise status quo.
"Players who leave the Raid prematurely will receive a Deserter Debuff, though it will likely be of longer duration than the one applied to users of the Dungeon Finder. This debuff will only apply to the Raid Finder system." Let that sink in too. This is likely being prohibitively implemented to discourage people from leaving after the first wipe, which means pressure to avoid a second one will likely mount quickly. Don't let this feature be a funsucker, use it only when you're in the right frame of mind.
omedon666 Sep 29th 2011 9:44PM
For the record, I am still psyched to use this feature, and will use it as intended, with the proper self-protections and personal enjoyment/mood moderation in place.
SamLowry Sep 29th 2011 10:29PM
It would be great if they could fix the need/greed system so hunters (and I do have an 85 hunter) aren't able to need on just about every damn thing in the game.
loop_not_defined Sep 29th 2011 11:43PM
Sam, I also have an 85 Hunter, and don't really follow what you're saying. o_O
My problem has always been with plate classes rolling on Agility off pieces. PITA.
thedoctor2031 Sep 30th 2011 12:34AM
I do think the loot rules and the inability of the leader to directly kick is a bit upsetting. Unless they change the loot system so you can only roll on items that are beneficial for the spec you que as, I think this could lead to a large amount of ninjas. As for the leader being unable to kick, what if you are just filling the last 5 slots of a raid group and you want everyone to be in ventrilo or mumble. If anyone who ques doesn't want to get in you have to waste precious vote kicks on them and there is no guarantee you will ever get someone who will. Just one example but the leader not being able to kick puts me off a little. I would have liked for it to be slightly closer to the current raid finder in the fact that you can send descriptions to raid leaders of what you can do so that the raid leaders have a bit of choice. That could cause elitism but I think it would be better than getting someone who believes 10k dps is acceptable for current content. Despite these flaws I am really looking forward to this system. Hurray for casual pugging on alts! This is a gift from heaven to us time constrained players.
omedon666 Sep 30th 2011 12:39AM
While not a textbook definition, ninjalooting implies swiping/rolling on loot outside the established rules.
This is impossible to do in an automated system. You accept NBG and all its flaws (and merits!) the moment you queue.
Anyone not expecting everyone with a need button to hit said need button to fill both of their specs is going into this a little naive. the community is not invested in your "main spec viability", and you are not invested in theirs. Just roll, and don't bank on the outcome.
If you want a loot system that affords more customizable control, there are two other modes with two raid group sizes each.
See you in the raid, (if you're playing in North America) and may the best roll win. :)
omedon666 Sep 30th 2011 12:49AM
I should rephrase that.
While we may not have to accept that "everyone is rolling both specs", all it takes is one to break an *unenforceable* consensus to stick to "current spec only" to make the whole arrangement moot.
Protect yourself. If you'd like the loot, for either spec, roll need.
Snuzzle Sep 30th 2011 1:09AM
@loop_not_defined
Hunters can currently, and often do, roll on tanking trinkets or strength weapons. This will be a problem in the random raid finder.
@omedon666
I hope that "roll regardless of main spec or off spec" doesn't become the norm for this. It's a bit different when you've got a once-a-week shot at loot versus once-a-day. I would hope that anyone rolling for offspec loot against a main spec player would be VTK'd. But that's probably naive of me.
Skarn Sep 30th 2011 3:52AM
Good luck, Omedon! I hope you have a blast. :)
BlackTiger Sep 30th 2011 4:59AM
>>It would be great if they could fix the need/greed system so hunters (and I do have an
>>85 hunter) aren't able to need on just about every damn thing in the game.
Whan did you play WOW last time? 2 years ago?
Hunter can need mail gear only, can't need anything with int/spirit/strengh on it.
Ice Sep 30th 2011 7:43AM
@Blacktiger
When have YOU played lfd lately?
Agi users can:
-Need on strength weapons they can use (axes, swords, RANGED items, maces if rogue or shaman)
-Need on "melee" trinkets, rings, necks that have str on them.
-Need on TANKING trinkets that have stamina, mastery/tank proc, dodge etc. They are counted as "melee" category
Strenght users can:
-Need on offset agility items such as trinkets, rings, necks.
-Need agility weapons they can eguip. Yes I'm fairly sure you can need daggers as warrior too.
-Need agility bows/crossbows/guns
-Need on "melee" trinkets, rings, necks that have agility on them.
Why dont they just add agi and str categories? Its not coding issue nor "too much work". They flat out said that they "want players to have choice".
Yet they made it pretty much so that you are forced to use agi or str. Agi wont give attackpower, only slight crit boost and in age where pure power triumphs (str and agi are always better than secondary stats on any class iirc) that crit boost wont be that great. Specially it wont be great to be troll and need tanking trinket as hunter unless somehow dodge proc is awesome at pvp.
If sub-optimal is choice can my mage roll on agility daggers? No?
Metric Sep 30th 2011 9:20AM
And Druids can need on all relics, trinkets, rings, and weapons other then swords and axes.
jtrack3d Sep 30th 2011 9:22AM
The rolling is going to be an issue. While even though you can only roll on things you can "use" I could see players rolling need for DE. Yes, some will claim that's just as valid / fair. The same is true for rolling for off-spec... Yes, some will claim that's just as valid. Remember, you only get 1 roll per week per boss.
The best way to make this work is stack it with your guild and forget pugs.
Angus Sep 30th 2011 10:13AM
My guild is only going to queue with 13+ people.
The moment someone says they won't do vent or decides it is okay to roll need on an off-set or completely wrong item they will get a whisper.
"Grats. You have just made my ignore list. Seeing as I always queue as raid leader an there are mostly people with my guild tag flying over our heads, expect this vote kick to suck because you are not getting into a raid with us again. bye bye"
I will let that sink in for a second and then start the vote kick.
I want us practicing for our real raids, not wasting time dealing with people that are clueless or unwilling to be a good socially.
Snuzzle Sep 30th 2011 1:15PM
Wow, Angus, way to be a bully. That's as bad as people who queue LFD with 4 guildies and lord it over their unfortunate puggie.
YOU are joining a random. Do NOT expect people to follow your rules, use your Vent, or enjoy being threatened. If someone treated me like that in a random, I'd let them vote kick me on principle so they ate the VTK timer increase.
Not that I agree with rolling Need on offspec, but these people didn't agree to join a pug under your rules, they agreed to Blizzard's. Bullying and threatening is the WRONG WAY to go about it.
Jyotai Sep 30th 2011 3:13PM
Plate wearers shouldn't get a need option on anything with agility.
Hunters, druids and shaman shouldn't get a need option on anything with strength.
- Put those two into place and you'd solvea lot of the remaining loot drama in wow.
Adrammelech Sep 29th 2011 9:42PM
The original post seems to have been pulled from the site.
KataSamoes Sep 29th 2011 11:13PM
It's back up now.
Ankun Sep 29th 2011 9:45PM
One of the things I have hope for but I won't be disappointed if it doesn't work.
Hellwraith Feb 15th 2014 9:33AM
Wow, reading all that it involves, I gotta say that it seems a very big thing that Blizzard pulled out here. It's pretty straight forward and I guess until we see it live and with some weeks of use, that the pros and cons will emerge. I really like what I read, let's just hope the best out of it.