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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsPatch 4.3: Raid Finder feature preview
by Alex Ziebart 
Sep 29th 2011 at 9:38PM
The Raid Finder will also require at least one player to queue as a raid leader volunteer, so they can be saddled with the responsibility of marking targets, choosing tanks and off tanks, and so on. A little part of my soul blackens every time I think about how much patience would be required to lead a 25-man raid PUG.
Hop after the break to check out the full Raid Finder Q&A.
Raid Finder Coming in Patch 4.3
We are working hard to introduce an exciting new feature to World of Warcraft in patch 4.3: the Raid Finder system. While it presents unprecedented technical hurdles and may change before it's released, we wanted to provide you with an early look at what we hope to accomplish, and share some details that we've worked out, which will lend some insight as to how the new feature is planned to work.
So what is the Raid Finder? It will be a brand new grouping feature that superficially works much like the Dungeon Finder. Instead of five-player dungeons, the Raid Finder is designed to help players quickly and easily form a pick-up raid for a specially tuned version of the current tier of raid content: the Dragon Soul raid. It's not intended to replace organized raiding though. You'll still need friends and guild members to help you conquer the toughest raiding challenges that patch 4.3 has to offer.
As we currently plan to roll out the Raid Finder feature in patch 4.3, level-85 players will be able to use it to access a 25-player version of the Dragon Soul raid dungeon, which will culminate in a glorious battle against Deathwing himself. Dragon Soul will be split into three different difficulties. The Raid Finder provides access to a new tier of difficulty, which in this case has split the raid into two wings, each containing four boss encounters. Meanwhile, raiders will still need to join with friends and guildmates to face the more challenging normal and heroic versions of the raid, since the Raid Finder cannot be used to access those higher difficulty levels. Naturally, because they're harder to defeat, the normal and heroic version of Dragon Soul will drop more powerful lootalong with prestigious rewards such as achievements, titles, and epic mounts. Rich rewards still await those who face the Raid Finder version, which we hope will introduce the thrills and epic experience of raiding to a broader audience than ever before.
You can access the Raid Finder through the 'Raid' button in the menu at the bottom of the default user interface. The Raid Finder should feel familiar to Dungeon Finder users. Just fire it up, select your class role, click the 'Find Raid' button, and get ready to face Deathwing's jaw of doom.
FAQ
Q. Raids aren't dungeons. Who will keep things organized?
A. A Raid Finder raid will require someone to queue as leader. The Raid Finder leader will have a very limited set of powers and cannot change loot type, nor do they have the ability to arbitrarily kick people from the raid. They do have the ability to mark targets and use /raid warning, and can promote other players to be leads as well. To be most successful, each Raid Finder group should have at least one leader who will explain the fights, assign raid markers, and make the tough calls, like who the main tank and off-tanks are.
Q. How will loot be distributed?
A. Automatic rolls and the Need Before Greed loot rules will apply in Raid Finder raids, just as they do in Dungeon Finder instances. Also, while Dungeon Finder raids aren't locked, you are only eligible for loot from a boss once per week. This means that if you were present for the defeat of a boss, whether you receive loot or not, then you will automatically pass on loot that drops during later attempts on that boss during the same week.
Q. How will Raid Finder loot differ?
A. Loot acquired through the Raid Finder, including tier set pieces, will be of a lower item level than items acquired from normal or heroic mode versions of the Dragon Soul raid, and its appearance may differ. Also, there are certain items, as well as components for legendary weapons, which will not drop in Raid Finder raids. While individual bosses will not yield Valor Points as they would in other versions of the raid, you can still earn 250 Valor Points for beating the final boss in each wing of the instance.
Tier armor that drops in Raid Finder raids still provides set bonuses, and those bonuses are compatible with the higher item level versions of the armor available in the normal and heroic mode versions of the raid. None of these tier sets will be available for purchase from a vendor via Valor Points.
Q. Will there be an item level requirement to use the Raid Finder?
A. Yes, accessing raids via the Raid Finder will require that participating characters be level 85 and have attained a certain item level, to help ensure that they are prepared for the content they'll be facing.
Q. Will the Raid Finder be cross-realm?
A. Yes, the Raid Finder will draw players from all realms. As with the Dungeon Finder, it will place some priority on grouping players from the same realm, though not at the cost of increased queue times.
Q. What kind of raid composition will the Raid Finder create?
A. Each Raid Finder raid will include two tanks, six healers, and seventeen damage dealers. As the raid is assembled, the Raid Finder will attempt to balance the group according to armor type, which should help ensure a healthy mix of melee and ranged dps.
Q. Why 25-player only?
A. A 25-player group is actually easier and faster to fill than a smaller group would be, and allows for greater flexibility in raid creation, all of which will help contribute to lower queue times. Also, 25-player raids are less subject to issues with composition or player connectivity.
The Raid Finder version of the Dragon Soul raid will be designed with pick-up raiding in mind. Normal and heroic difficulties will require the greater organization and teamwork found in guild raid groups.
Q. Will I get Call to Arms benefits when using the Raid Finder?
A. We don't currently plan to apply Call to Arms benefits to the Raid Finder, though that may change in the future.
Q. Will I be locked to a raid I join through the Raid Finder?
A. Since the Raid Finder only offers access exclusively to a specially tuned version of the Dragon Soul raid instance, instance locks will not be enforced for that version. Instance locks will still be enforced for the normal and heroic versions of the raid.
Q. Can I queue with my friends in a party or raid?
A. Yes, you can queue for the Raid Finder individually, in a party, or in a raid. The Raid Finder can be a great tool to help fill those last few slots in a raid.
Q. I'm a dedicated raider with an organized group, what good is the Raid Finder to me?
A. Since instance locks aren't in play, Raid Finder raids could provide a way for dedicated raiders to gear up alternate characters, fill gaps in their itemization, finish off elusive set bonuses, or just have some fun while preparing to face the normal or heroic version of the raid on the next reset.
Q. Why aren't other raids available?
A. The Raid Finder is intended to help players experience the current tier of content.Also, many older raids don't require a full complement of raiders, making the Raid Finder unnecessary. This is also the first rollout of the feature and we decided to start things simple, rather than potentially delay the feature's introduction.
If the Raid Finder proves popular, more raid instances may be added to it in the future.
Q. Will Vote Kick still work in the Raid Finder?
A. Yes, though many of the same requirements and restrictions will be in place. For example, kicking too many times can result in a Vote Kick cooldown. Also, the thresholds are different, and several players will need to agree on kicking a candidate before the vote begins. Successful kick votes will require a significant number of Yes votes to pass.
Q. What happens if I leave a Raid Finder raid before it's over?
A. Players who leave the Raid prematurely will receive a Deserter Debuff, though it will likely be of longer duration than the one applied to users of the Dungeon Finder. This debuff will only apply to the Raid Finder system.
So what is the Raid Finder? It will be a brand new grouping feature that superficially works much like the Dungeon Finder. Instead of five-player dungeons, the Raid Finder is designed to help players quickly and easily form a pick-up raid for a specially tuned version of the current tier of raid content: the Dragon Soul raid. It's not intended to replace organized raiding though. You'll still need friends and guild members to help you conquer the toughest raiding challenges that patch 4.3 has to offer.
As we currently plan to roll out the Raid Finder feature in patch 4.3, level-85 players will be able to use it to access a 25-player version of the Dragon Soul raid dungeon, which will culminate in a glorious battle against Deathwing himself. Dragon Soul will be split into three different difficulties. The Raid Finder provides access to a new tier of difficulty, which in this case has split the raid into two wings, each containing four boss encounters. Meanwhile, raiders will still need to join with friends and guildmates to face the more challenging normal and heroic versions of the raid, since the Raid Finder cannot be used to access those higher difficulty levels. Naturally, because they're harder to defeat, the normal and heroic version of Dragon Soul will drop more powerful lootalong with prestigious rewards such as achievements, titles, and epic mounts. Rich rewards still await those who face the Raid Finder version, which we hope will introduce the thrills and epic experience of raiding to a broader audience than ever before.
You can access the Raid Finder through the 'Raid' button in the menu at the bottom of the default user interface. The Raid Finder should feel familiar to Dungeon Finder users. Just fire it up, select your class role, click the 'Find Raid' button, and get ready to face Deathwing's jaw of doom.
FAQ
Q. Raids aren't dungeons. Who will keep things organized?
A. A Raid Finder raid will require someone to queue as leader. The Raid Finder leader will have a very limited set of powers and cannot change loot type, nor do they have the ability to arbitrarily kick people from the raid. They do have the ability to mark targets and use /raid warning, and can promote other players to be leads as well. To be most successful, each Raid Finder group should have at least one leader who will explain the fights, assign raid markers, and make the tough calls, like who the main tank and off-tanks are.
Q. How will loot be distributed?
A. Automatic rolls and the Need Before Greed loot rules will apply in Raid Finder raids, just as they do in Dungeon Finder instances. Also, while Dungeon Finder raids aren't locked, you are only eligible for loot from a boss once per week. This means that if you were present for the defeat of a boss, whether you receive loot or not, then you will automatically pass on loot that drops during later attempts on that boss during the same week.
Q. How will Raid Finder loot differ?
A. Loot acquired through the Raid Finder, including tier set pieces, will be of a lower item level than items acquired from normal or heroic mode versions of the Dragon Soul raid, and its appearance may differ. Also, there are certain items, as well as components for legendary weapons, which will not drop in Raid Finder raids. While individual bosses will not yield Valor Points as they would in other versions of the raid, you can still earn 250 Valor Points for beating the final boss in each wing of the instance.
Tier armor that drops in Raid Finder raids still provides set bonuses, and those bonuses are compatible with the higher item level versions of the armor available in the normal and heroic mode versions of the raid. None of these tier sets will be available for purchase from a vendor via Valor Points.
Q. Will there be an item level requirement to use the Raid Finder?
A. Yes, accessing raids via the Raid Finder will require that participating characters be level 85 and have attained a certain item level, to help ensure that they are prepared for the content they'll be facing.
Q. Will the Raid Finder be cross-realm?
A. Yes, the Raid Finder will draw players from all realms. As with the Dungeon Finder, it will place some priority on grouping players from the same realm, though not at the cost of increased queue times.
Q. What kind of raid composition will the Raid Finder create?
A. Each Raid Finder raid will include two tanks, six healers, and seventeen damage dealers. As the raid is assembled, the Raid Finder will attempt to balance the group according to armor type, which should help ensure a healthy mix of melee and ranged dps.
Q. Why 25-player only?
A. A 25-player group is actually easier and faster to fill than a smaller group would be, and allows for greater flexibility in raid creation, all of which will help contribute to lower queue times. Also, 25-player raids are less subject to issues with composition or player connectivity.
The Raid Finder version of the Dragon Soul raid will be designed with pick-up raiding in mind. Normal and heroic difficulties will require the greater organization and teamwork found in guild raid groups.
Q. Will I get Call to Arms benefits when using the Raid Finder?
A. We don't currently plan to apply Call to Arms benefits to the Raid Finder, though that may change in the future.
Q. Will I be locked to a raid I join through the Raid Finder?
A. Since the Raid Finder only offers access exclusively to a specially tuned version of the Dragon Soul raid instance, instance locks will not be enforced for that version. Instance locks will still be enforced for the normal and heroic versions of the raid.
Q. Can I queue with my friends in a party or raid?
A. Yes, you can queue for the Raid Finder individually, in a party, or in a raid. The Raid Finder can be a great tool to help fill those last few slots in a raid.
Q. I'm a dedicated raider with an organized group, what good is the Raid Finder to me?
A. Since instance locks aren't in play, Raid Finder raids could provide a way for dedicated raiders to gear up alternate characters, fill gaps in their itemization, finish off elusive set bonuses, or just have some fun while preparing to face the normal or heroic version of the raid on the next reset.
Q. Why aren't other raids available?
A. The Raid Finder is intended to help players experience the current tier of content.Also, many older raids don't require a full complement of raiders, making the Raid Finder unnecessary. This is also the first rollout of the feature and we decided to start things simple, rather than potentially delay the feature's introduction.
If the Raid Finder proves popular, more raid instances may be added to it in the future.
Q. Will Vote Kick still work in the Raid Finder?
A. Yes, though many of the same requirements and restrictions will be in place. For example, kicking too many times can result in a Vote Kick cooldown. Also, the thresholds are different, and several players will need to agree on kicking a candidate before the vote begins. Successful kick votes will require a significant number of Yes votes to pass.
Q. What happens if I leave a Raid Finder raid before it's over?
A. Players who leave the Raid prematurely will receive a Deserter Debuff, though it will likely be of longer duration than the one applied to users of the Dungeon Finder. This debuff will only apply to the Raid Finder system.
Brace yourselves for what could be some of most exciting updates to the game recently with patch 4.3. Review the official patch notes, and then dig into what's ahead: new item storage options, cross-realm raiding, cosmetic armor skinning and your chance to battle the mighty Deathwing -- from astride his back!
Filed under: Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 8)
Calaana Sep 29th 2011 11:16PM
TBH, I can see this being a tech thing. It's a pretty big change, and going back and doing all the raids? Huge amount of work. Put it in for one raid, use that as a focus test, then expand to the rest once the live bug testing period has happened is how I'd do it too. That said, it could just as easily go the way of the dance studio, at which point I will gladly join in the pitchforking.
I full expect the 5.0 wrap up/cross over patch, which sounds like a non-raid content patch, to hit December, and the rest of the raids will come out with it. They would be mad not to.
Philster043 Sep 29th 2011 11:21PM
Don't you think it would've made it FAR too easy to do old raids? When you group up 25 85's to do a 60 raid, or whatever. Plus, drops would be considerably tougher to get than it would be if you did an older raid with a 5-man group. They probably just haven't gotten it down to the point where the Raid Finder would select a certain number of people to match an ideal difficulty level for an older raid.
Murdertime Sep 29th 2011 11:43PM
The problem with that question, Philster is that the answer in a lot of cases is 'One unless there is something stupid'. With the exception of the start of BWL and maybe chess, any class can pretty easily solo stuff up until the last couple of fights SSC/TK. Then you might need an actual tank and heals. Or a tank that can self heal.
Steffan Sep 30th 2011 12:32AM
While, I'm not surprised by the exclusion of pre-Cata raids, I was desperately let down finding out BWD, BoT, etc aren't available through it.
Noyou Sep 30th 2011 1:04AM
And what if the dark moon faire offers tier sets 1-6? How often would you run old raids then? Until it all rolls out we don't know yet. So take a deep breath and wait for more info :)
Snuzzle Sep 30th 2011 1:36AM
Even if they did, Adam, there's always been a level cap after which you could no longer queue up for old dungeons. As an 85, if I want something from Scarlet Monastery, I have to walk in and get it. I can't queue for SM.
And that's how it should be, imo. Plenty of times at 70 I can remember being annoyed when someone queues up with their level 80 buddy and what should have been a fun run became a boring pull-through.
So even if old raids were added, don't expect to be able to queue for SWP on your level 85.
Jade Sep 30th 2011 1:46AM
@Adam:
I think what you just described would be a return to the permanent state of "Instance server not responding".
I imagine there is a reason they don't want a million people queuing constantly for raids that would take them 20 minutes to run, until they have verified the stability of the system
Kylenne Sep 30th 2011 11:54AM
@Murdertime:
Good luck soloing Vashj. That has nothing to do with needing a tank or heals, the mechanics of the fight are what prevent it.
It's the same reason BWL isn't "soloable", despite being a level 60 raid. Though at least with SSC, you can clear everything up to the end.
Skarn Sep 30th 2011 2:16PM
@Kylenne,
Actually, Vashj may be soloable now. The cores no longer root you, so if you can keep the adds under control and get the cores before her damage buff gets too high, it's possible.
aelders5124 Sep 29th 2011 10:05PM
I wonder, will a guild run count for your raid challenge?
Noyou Sep 30th 2011 1:07AM
As long as you fulfill the guild requirements, which I believe is 60% of a 25 man raid or 15 players. I am guessing if you have 15 players willing to raid on a given night, you would already be running at least one 10 man.
radda Sep 29th 2011 10:15PM
This seems like a good way for people to learn the fights before trying it for reals.
Let's be honest though: the need for a leader will mean this will only end in tears. When will Blizz learn that people are douchebags on the internet?
Let's hope that the debuff is only applied if you leave in the first 30 minutes, like the regular LFG.
omedon666 Sep 29th 2011 10:26PM
Unfortunately, I can see "striking" making a comeback, given the "importance" of raids.
If you "don't like the scenario" (which, admittedly, could be everything from "the group are being douchebags" to "you are being a douchebag"), head out of the instance, alt+tab, and either wait to be kicked, or for the people that are "the problem" to leave.
Sadly, I've seen it done. No one can make you stay in the instance, and being kicked carries no deserter penalty.
SamLowry Sep 29th 2011 10:35PM
So how will people be able to try raids "for reals" if they're in guilds too small to even contemplate a raid? BTW, if you haven't noticed, raid pugs don't exist anymore.
I was hoping there for a little while, but now I can finally give up on the fantasy that my rogue might ever actually see any part of the legendary daggers since I'll never be able to enter a "for reals" raid until it's about as difficult as, say, Kara is now. And I finally did get a chance to see that one a few weeks ago--kinda boring, actually; don't see what all the fuss was about.
omedon666 Sep 29th 2011 10:52PM
Well, Sam, you could capitalize on the hands-on knowledge of the raid that you, and the rest of the "want to raid, but guild is too small" community, would now have, in an unprecedented fashion, I might add, to form a server-side PUG or loose raiding alliance. You wouldn't even need 25 people, you could go 10-man.
Heck... you could even take in every class except other rogues... not that I'd personally go that far, but the option is there.
Noyou Sep 30th 2011 4:32AM
@Sam
If you are that committed to getting the legendary then I would go on your realm forum and see if any guilds want/need a rogue. There may be a guild out there willing to take one on and help them get the legendary. I believe it would give them an achievement and get you what you want as well. It's worth a shot. But if you don't want to put in the time and energy talking to people you clearly don't deserve the weapon. So it's totally up to you.
JWhite Sep 30th 2011 7:14AM
They don't let douche bags on the internet!
Stilhelm Sep 30th 2011 10:29AM
I would say that if you aren't already considered a solid raiding member of a raiding guild, you probably have no more chance at the legendary daggers than a caster who wasn't already part of a solid raiding guild at the beginning of 4.2. Most raiding guilds have a rogue, and those that don't have some raider with a rogue alt they'd take before bringing in an unknown with no raiding history.
I personally have a rogue alt I'd like to run for it, but my guild already has a rogue who's been raiding with us since the beginning of cata and she deserves it far more than someone like me who is capable with my rogue but abandoned it for my hunter since ranged dps was so much more necessary. Still, if we didn't have a rogue main in my guild, I'd be lobbying hard to be the one to bring a rogue for the legendary.
Ed Sep 29th 2011 10:19PM
I was hoping the Raid Finder would include all of the Cata raids, at the very least. I know we'll probably be able to get good enough gear through the new 5-mans, but I kind of wanted to see Bastion of Twilight, Firelands, etc. before I jumped right into Dragon Soul. :(
Crispn Sep 29th 2011 10:33PM
on the ptr it has all the Cata raids i think.