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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsPatch 4.3: Raid Finder feature preview
by Alex Ziebart 
Sep 29th 2011 at 9:38PM
The Raid Finder will also require at least one player to queue as a raid leader volunteer, so they can be saddled with the responsibility of marking targets, choosing tanks and off tanks, and so on. A little part of my soul blackens every time I think about how much patience would be required to lead a 25-man raid PUG.
Hop after the break to check out the full Raid Finder Q&A.
Raid Finder Coming in Patch 4.3
We are working hard to introduce an exciting new feature to World of Warcraft in patch 4.3: the Raid Finder system. While it presents unprecedented technical hurdles and may change before it's released, we wanted to provide you with an early look at what we hope to accomplish, and share some details that we've worked out, which will lend some insight as to how the new feature is planned to work.
So what is the Raid Finder? It will be a brand new grouping feature that superficially works much like the Dungeon Finder. Instead of five-player dungeons, the Raid Finder is designed to help players quickly and easily form a pick-up raid for a specially tuned version of the current tier of raid content: the Dragon Soul raid. It's not intended to replace organized raiding though. You'll still need friends and guild members to help you conquer the toughest raiding challenges that patch 4.3 has to offer.
As we currently plan to roll out the Raid Finder feature in patch 4.3, level-85 players will be able to use it to access a 25-player version of the Dragon Soul raid dungeon, which will culminate in a glorious battle against Deathwing himself. Dragon Soul will be split into three different difficulties. The Raid Finder provides access to a new tier of difficulty, which in this case has split the raid into two wings, each containing four boss encounters. Meanwhile, raiders will still need to join with friends and guildmates to face the more challenging normal and heroic versions of the raid, since the Raid Finder cannot be used to access those higher difficulty levels. Naturally, because they're harder to defeat, the normal and heroic version of Dragon Soul will drop more powerful lootalong with prestigious rewards such as achievements, titles, and epic mounts. Rich rewards still await those who face the Raid Finder version, which we hope will introduce the thrills and epic experience of raiding to a broader audience than ever before.
You can access the Raid Finder through the 'Raid' button in the menu at the bottom of the default user interface. The Raid Finder should feel familiar to Dungeon Finder users. Just fire it up, select your class role, click the 'Find Raid' button, and get ready to face Deathwing's jaw of doom.
FAQ
Q. Raids aren't dungeons. Who will keep things organized?
A. A Raid Finder raid will require someone to queue as leader. The Raid Finder leader will have a very limited set of powers and cannot change loot type, nor do they have the ability to arbitrarily kick people from the raid. They do have the ability to mark targets and use /raid warning, and can promote other players to be leads as well. To be most successful, each Raid Finder group should have at least one leader who will explain the fights, assign raid markers, and make the tough calls, like who the main tank and off-tanks are.
Q. How will loot be distributed?
A. Automatic rolls and the Need Before Greed loot rules will apply in Raid Finder raids, just as they do in Dungeon Finder instances. Also, while Dungeon Finder raids aren't locked, you are only eligible for loot from a boss once per week. This means that if you were present for the defeat of a boss, whether you receive loot or not, then you will automatically pass on loot that drops during later attempts on that boss during the same week.
Q. How will Raid Finder loot differ?
A. Loot acquired through the Raid Finder, including tier set pieces, will be of a lower item level than items acquired from normal or heroic mode versions of the Dragon Soul raid, and its appearance may differ. Also, there are certain items, as well as components for legendary weapons, which will not drop in Raid Finder raids. While individual bosses will not yield Valor Points as they would in other versions of the raid, you can still earn 250 Valor Points for beating the final boss in each wing of the instance.
Tier armor that drops in Raid Finder raids still provides set bonuses, and those bonuses are compatible with the higher item level versions of the armor available in the normal and heroic mode versions of the raid. None of these tier sets will be available for purchase from a vendor via Valor Points.
Q. Will there be an item level requirement to use the Raid Finder?
A. Yes, accessing raids via the Raid Finder will require that participating characters be level 85 and have attained a certain item level, to help ensure that they are prepared for the content they'll be facing.
Q. Will the Raid Finder be cross-realm?
A. Yes, the Raid Finder will draw players from all realms. As with the Dungeon Finder, it will place some priority on grouping players from the same realm, though not at the cost of increased queue times.
Q. What kind of raid composition will the Raid Finder create?
A. Each Raid Finder raid will include two tanks, six healers, and seventeen damage dealers. As the raid is assembled, the Raid Finder will attempt to balance the group according to armor type, which should help ensure a healthy mix of melee and ranged dps.
Q. Why 25-player only?
A. A 25-player group is actually easier and faster to fill than a smaller group would be, and allows for greater flexibility in raid creation, all of which will help contribute to lower queue times. Also, 25-player raids are less subject to issues with composition or player connectivity.
The Raid Finder version of the Dragon Soul raid will be designed with pick-up raiding in mind. Normal and heroic difficulties will require the greater organization and teamwork found in guild raid groups.
Q. Will I get Call to Arms benefits when using the Raid Finder?
A. We don't currently plan to apply Call to Arms benefits to the Raid Finder, though that may change in the future.
Q. Will I be locked to a raid I join through the Raid Finder?
A. Since the Raid Finder only offers access exclusively to a specially tuned version of the Dragon Soul raid instance, instance locks will not be enforced for that version. Instance locks will still be enforced for the normal and heroic versions of the raid.
Q. Can I queue with my friends in a party or raid?
A. Yes, you can queue for the Raid Finder individually, in a party, or in a raid. The Raid Finder can be a great tool to help fill those last few slots in a raid.
Q. I'm a dedicated raider with an organized group, what good is the Raid Finder to me?
A. Since instance locks aren't in play, Raid Finder raids could provide a way for dedicated raiders to gear up alternate characters, fill gaps in their itemization, finish off elusive set bonuses, or just have some fun while preparing to face the normal or heroic version of the raid on the next reset.
Q. Why aren't other raids available?
A. The Raid Finder is intended to help players experience the current tier of content.Also, many older raids don't require a full complement of raiders, making the Raid Finder unnecessary. This is also the first rollout of the feature and we decided to start things simple, rather than potentially delay the feature's introduction.
If the Raid Finder proves popular, more raid instances may be added to it in the future.
Q. Will Vote Kick still work in the Raid Finder?
A. Yes, though many of the same requirements and restrictions will be in place. For example, kicking too many times can result in a Vote Kick cooldown. Also, the thresholds are different, and several players will need to agree on kicking a candidate before the vote begins. Successful kick votes will require a significant number of Yes votes to pass.
Q. What happens if I leave a Raid Finder raid before it's over?
A. Players who leave the Raid prematurely will receive a Deserter Debuff, though it will likely be of longer duration than the one applied to users of the Dungeon Finder. This debuff will only apply to the Raid Finder system.
So what is the Raid Finder? It will be a brand new grouping feature that superficially works much like the Dungeon Finder. Instead of five-player dungeons, the Raid Finder is designed to help players quickly and easily form a pick-up raid for a specially tuned version of the current tier of raid content: the Dragon Soul raid. It's not intended to replace organized raiding though. You'll still need friends and guild members to help you conquer the toughest raiding challenges that patch 4.3 has to offer.
As we currently plan to roll out the Raid Finder feature in patch 4.3, level-85 players will be able to use it to access a 25-player version of the Dragon Soul raid dungeon, which will culminate in a glorious battle against Deathwing himself. Dragon Soul will be split into three different difficulties. The Raid Finder provides access to a new tier of difficulty, which in this case has split the raid into two wings, each containing four boss encounters. Meanwhile, raiders will still need to join with friends and guildmates to face the more challenging normal and heroic versions of the raid, since the Raid Finder cannot be used to access those higher difficulty levels. Naturally, because they're harder to defeat, the normal and heroic version of Dragon Soul will drop more powerful lootalong with prestigious rewards such as achievements, titles, and epic mounts. Rich rewards still await those who face the Raid Finder version, which we hope will introduce the thrills and epic experience of raiding to a broader audience than ever before.
You can access the Raid Finder through the 'Raid' button in the menu at the bottom of the default user interface. The Raid Finder should feel familiar to Dungeon Finder users. Just fire it up, select your class role, click the 'Find Raid' button, and get ready to face Deathwing's jaw of doom.
FAQ
Q. Raids aren't dungeons. Who will keep things organized?
A. A Raid Finder raid will require someone to queue as leader. The Raid Finder leader will have a very limited set of powers and cannot change loot type, nor do they have the ability to arbitrarily kick people from the raid. They do have the ability to mark targets and use /raid warning, and can promote other players to be leads as well. To be most successful, each Raid Finder group should have at least one leader who will explain the fights, assign raid markers, and make the tough calls, like who the main tank and off-tanks are.
Q. How will loot be distributed?
A. Automatic rolls and the Need Before Greed loot rules will apply in Raid Finder raids, just as they do in Dungeon Finder instances. Also, while Dungeon Finder raids aren't locked, you are only eligible for loot from a boss once per week. This means that if you were present for the defeat of a boss, whether you receive loot or not, then you will automatically pass on loot that drops during later attempts on that boss during the same week.
Q. How will Raid Finder loot differ?
A. Loot acquired through the Raid Finder, including tier set pieces, will be of a lower item level than items acquired from normal or heroic mode versions of the Dragon Soul raid, and its appearance may differ. Also, there are certain items, as well as components for legendary weapons, which will not drop in Raid Finder raids. While individual bosses will not yield Valor Points as they would in other versions of the raid, you can still earn 250 Valor Points for beating the final boss in each wing of the instance.
Tier armor that drops in Raid Finder raids still provides set bonuses, and those bonuses are compatible with the higher item level versions of the armor available in the normal and heroic mode versions of the raid. None of these tier sets will be available for purchase from a vendor via Valor Points.
Q. Will there be an item level requirement to use the Raid Finder?
A. Yes, accessing raids via the Raid Finder will require that participating characters be level 85 and have attained a certain item level, to help ensure that they are prepared for the content they'll be facing.
Q. Will the Raid Finder be cross-realm?
A. Yes, the Raid Finder will draw players from all realms. As with the Dungeon Finder, it will place some priority on grouping players from the same realm, though not at the cost of increased queue times.
Q. What kind of raid composition will the Raid Finder create?
A. Each Raid Finder raid will include two tanks, six healers, and seventeen damage dealers. As the raid is assembled, the Raid Finder will attempt to balance the group according to armor type, which should help ensure a healthy mix of melee and ranged dps.
Q. Why 25-player only?
A. A 25-player group is actually easier and faster to fill than a smaller group would be, and allows for greater flexibility in raid creation, all of which will help contribute to lower queue times. Also, 25-player raids are less subject to issues with composition or player connectivity.
The Raid Finder version of the Dragon Soul raid will be designed with pick-up raiding in mind. Normal and heroic difficulties will require the greater organization and teamwork found in guild raid groups.
Q. Will I get Call to Arms benefits when using the Raid Finder?
A. We don't currently plan to apply Call to Arms benefits to the Raid Finder, though that may change in the future.
Q. Will I be locked to a raid I join through the Raid Finder?
A. Since the Raid Finder only offers access exclusively to a specially tuned version of the Dragon Soul raid instance, instance locks will not be enforced for that version. Instance locks will still be enforced for the normal and heroic versions of the raid.
Q. Can I queue with my friends in a party or raid?
A. Yes, you can queue for the Raid Finder individually, in a party, or in a raid. The Raid Finder can be a great tool to help fill those last few slots in a raid.
Q. I'm a dedicated raider with an organized group, what good is the Raid Finder to me?
A. Since instance locks aren't in play, Raid Finder raids could provide a way for dedicated raiders to gear up alternate characters, fill gaps in their itemization, finish off elusive set bonuses, or just have some fun while preparing to face the normal or heroic version of the raid on the next reset.
Q. Why aren't other raids available?
A. The Raid Finder is intended to help players experience the current tier of content.Also, many older raids don't require a full complement of raiders, making the Raid Finder unnecessary. This is also the first rollout of the feature and we decided to start things simple, rather than potentially delay the feature's introduction.
If the Raid Finder proves popular, more raid instances may be added to it in the future.
Q. Will Vote Kick still work in the Raid Finder?
A. Yes, though many of the same requirements and restrictions will be in place. For example, kicking too many times can result in a Vote Kick cooldown. Also, the thresholds are different, and several players will need to agree on kicking a candidate before the vote begins. Successful kick votes will require a significant number of Yes votes to pass.
Q. What happens if I leave a Raid Finder raid before it's over?
A. Players who leave the Raid prematurely will receive a Deserter Debuff, though it will likely be of longer duration than the one applied to users of the Dungeon Finder. This debuff will only apply to the Raid Finder system.
Brace yourselves for what could be some of most exciting updates to the game recently with patch 4.3. Review the official patch notes, and then dig into what's ahead: new item storage options, cross-realm raiding, cosmetic armor skinning and your chance to battle the mighty Deathwing -- from astride his back!
Filed under: Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 7 of 8)
Ice Sep 30th 2011 7:50AM
Pvp gear - not excluded. They havent been excluding them for over year since it was implemented. And they will not. Sorry, thats how it is and thats how they seem to want it (since its been over year and no change has come)
Can you queue for 2 - No. Again, you cant queue for BGs, you cant be on current raid browser same time with ANY queues like dungeon or BG. You can only be on one queue at the time. Again, if they wanted you to be they would've changed that over year ago. Its intended.
deanspeedway Sep 30th 2011 5:32AM
It's a shame that it's only the 25 version that's available. Doing 10s in a full pug group might be a little more civilized.
Skyrei Sep 30th 2011 5:59AM
10 man would be interesting but 25 man just makes more sense... theres always way more dps then healers or tanks.
and the raid finder tanks half the awful job of running a 25 man. Getting people online and in the raid.
Now for that leading thing
deanspeedway Sep 30th 2011 6:14AM
It's a good point about the number of dps vs heals/tanks.
.. but if I was to lead such a raid (and for some reason I usually end up being the one doing it) I'd much rather lead a group of 10 randoms than 25
Ice Sep 30th 2011 7:46AM
"Hey tank why didnt you taunt the boss on the debuff?"
"LAAAAGGGGG"
"Umm..turn settings to low or something?"
"LAAGGG 25MANS MAKE MY WOODEN PC LAAGGG"
"why did you join here then geez"
"stop cry dps, I need loot lol"
Repeat for hour.
Yeah. No ty.
Skyrei Sep 30th 2011 5:56AM
It looks like "I killed deathwing!" probabaly wont end up meaing much.
Also, i wonder if the various ranking sites will include the easier boss kills.. or if its even boss to tell the difference.
Skyrei Sep 30th 2011 5:58AM
even possible*
robitrock Sep 30th 2011 8:05AM
Those sites go by achievements, these don't give any achievements so yes it's possible to tell the who has done it on normal and who has done it on LFR
datgrl Sep 30th 2011 6:19AM
Sounds like a great way to learn the ropes. A guild can queue 5 in a party and get the rest through the tool. Or if a guild is partway through and folks need to leave, the tool can be used to fill in whoever just left.
Rob Sep 30th 2011 7:20AM
One of the reasons i am coming back is due to this feature. But seeing as it's only for current tier of content as of 4.3 makes me a sad panda. What would it take to say okay we'll do raid finder for any tier below deathwing as long as you meet the level/gear requirement. I mean you can do MC at 60 and that would be actually enjoyable (a DK tank is more than enough to tank it at 60). This has potential but if all they are going to do is 4.3 then it's all for naught. One raid is going to get boring really quickly.
Skarn Sep 30th 2011 3:02PM
While I understand the disappointment with "only one raid," it's really premature. This is a brand new system and they aren't even sure how all the kinks are going to work. It makes a lot of sense to only use the current raid for the initial implementation, while they work everything out. In the future they are likely to extend it's usage to other raids.
Will it ever include previous expansion raids? I'm not sure. The current Dungeon Finder does not. It only has "current" dungeons. So it's not odd that a Raid Finder wouldn't include old stuff either. One hurdle for old raids: How many do you wait to queue up? Molten Core doesn't need 40 level 85s. There are doubtless other things to work out too.
robitrock Sep 30th 2011 7:59AM
People saying normal raiders won't do these are completely wrong, I raid 2-4 nights a week and I would still queue for these
1. To fill holes in my current set
2. To become more acquainted with the fight
3. Just cause sometimes your really fricken bored and there's no raid that night or you already killed everything, I already do this with heroics.
4. To help guildy's fill holes/gear there alts
matt Sep 30th 2011 9:13AM
I want this to succeed, I really do. This actually matches my play style pretty well I love to raid, I am a pretty good healer, but I hate having to set aside 3+ nights a week at times that are no ideal for me in order to enjoy all that raid-y goodness.
That said, I have some serious reservations about the viability of this thing. random cross-server PUGs work when the content is so easy that 2 people can carry 3 drooling idiots through, Which is about what how things worked in the 3.3 hay-day of LFD. The way I see it, if you tune the raids down to the point that 5 skilled people could kill it AND the other 20 can't screw it up too bad, this will work, but be totally not fun.
How can they tune a raid encounter so that it will not require voice chat? Will a competent raid leader ever sign up as leader? How will this idea ever work, with this community?
Dimmak Sep 30th 2011 9:55AM
Loot system is a little flawed.
First if I defeat 3/4 bosses and then the raid falls apart and I queue for a new run, I have to kill 3 bosses for no loot chance at all.
Second why restrict loot rolls to once a week per boss when this is still a lower tier than the full raid? Do we not want to encourage experienced players to run multiple times to help all those pugger out?
Perhaps as an alternative the once a week rule should be:
"If you receive loot from a given boss you will become ineligible to roll on that loot again in the same week."
Stilhelm Sep 30th 2011 11:01AM
I don't think there is anything wrong with the loot system. If you get 3/8 and the group disbands, you can still queue for another group to have a chance at loot from later bosses. Also, the LFR system may prioritize getting someone with 3/8 down when a group with 3/8 needs to requeue for a few people that left to reduce the chance you have to kill the bosses again as well. As for getting loot, if you raid you get used to *not* getting loot most of the time.
As for the experienced raiders running to help out the puggers, they will definitely be running LFR runs, just not with the mains or alts they run with their guild for the most part. By this time most people have several alts they could run, and many experienced raiders will be doing so.
sethauxier Sep 30th 2011 9:36AM
This is off topic but I love the header image. Where can I find the original?
Wrathkind Oct 7th 2011 7:37PM
That header image comes from the WoW TCG card for "Fortifying Shout". http://www.mtgmintcard.com/images/products/308/WORLD-OF-WARCRAFT-TCG-FORTIFYING-SHOUT-HON085.jpg
deanspeedway Sep 30th 2011 10:23AM
I can just about tolerate the random collection of .. let's just say "fine specimens of anonymous internet humanity"... that you get grouped with for 5man dungeons or random BGs.
If the LFR is expected to be an even vaguely enjoyable experience with 24 random 'specimens' it makes me wonder about the level of difficulty from the raids itself. Something on the level of Baradin Hold bosses complexity?
I find it hard to imagine even a fight like post-nerf Shannox normal mode being able to be consistently downed by 25 completely random people with no VOIP communication. (NB: CONSISTENTLY).
Maybe I'm wrong.
perderedeus Sep 30th 2011 10:33AM
You know, they had the tier pieces available for "badges" toward the end of Wrath... so that even someone who was unlucky with Tier Tokens drops would be able to eventually get their set...
Why not bring this to LFR? If people want to grind LFR 5+ times a week, but they happen to be unlucky with that first token drop, they have little to nothing to show for their effort.
If you think that players will keep going back to LFR week after week if they start seeing a bad streak with luck on loot... you're wrong. They'll say "nuts to this" and rightfully so. Every LFR, a fresh 24 people... fewer and fewer chances that those people won't also want/need the loot you're after... plus the headaches of getting through a PUG... riiiight. Good design.
Dimmak Sep 30th 2011 11:08AM
Yes, you could certainly queue again, and kill the same 3 bosses you just killed. If you have ever raided that's a huge time sink for no reward. What's worse what if that group doesn't actually down the 4 th boss...