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9-29-2011 @ 9:41PM
Copy pasted from other discussions I'm having on this topic:"A Raid Finder raid will require someone to queue as leader ... To be most successful, each Raid Finder group should have at least one leader who will explain the fights, assign raid markers, and make the tough calls, like who the main tank and off-tanks are." So, the encounters will be hard enough that someone will have to tell people how to run the fights. I read this as an admission that the dungeon journal notes will not provide enough information, and wipes will be imminent. I recommend everyone planning to use this feature READ UP ON THE FIGHTS. Don't expect the "I queued on my mage as a leader so I'd get a tank-level queue" player to tell you squat. Don't get me wrong, this implementation makes the most sense to me as well... but we all know that "don't be new on my time" expectations will still potentially come from this limited-power "leader" figure."Automatic rolls and the Need Before Greed loot rules will apply in Raid Finder raids, just as they do in Dungeon Finder instances" Let that sink in. Roll need if you need it, for either spec, do not hesitate, because you will not get cross-server consensus on an otherwise status quo."Players who leave the Raid prematurely will receive a Deserter Debuff, though it will likely be of longer duration than the one applied to users of the Dungeon Finder. This debuff will only apply to the Raid Finder system." Let that sink in too. This is likely being prohibitively implemented to discourage people from leaving after the first wipe, which means pressure to avoid a second one will likely mount quickly. Don't let this feature be a funsucker, use it only when you're in the right frame of mind.
9-29-2011 @ 9:44PM
For the record, I am still psyched to use this feature, and will use it as intended, with the proper self-protections and personal enjoyment/mood moderation in place.
9-29-2011 @ 10:29PM
It would be great if they could fix the need/greed system so hunters (and I do have an 85 hunter) aren't able to need on just about every damn thing in the game.
9-29-2011 @ 11:43PM
Sam, I also have an 85 Hunter, and don't really follow what you're saying. o_OMy problem has always been with plate classes rolling on Agility off pieces. PITA.
9-30-2011 @ 12:34AM
I do think the loot rules and the inability of the leader to directly kick is a bit upsetting. Unless they change the loot system so you can only roll on items that are beneficial for the spec you que as, I think this could lead to a large amount of ninjas. As for the leader being unable to kick, what if you are just filling the last 5 slots of a raid group and you want everyone to be in ventrilo or mumble. If anyone who ques doesn't want to get in you have to waste precious vote kicks on them and there is no guarantee you will ever get someone who will. Just one example but the leader not being able to kick puts me off a little. I would have liked for it to be slightly closer to the current raid finder in the fact that you can send descriptions to raid leaders of what you can do so that the raid leaders have a bit of choice. That could cause elitism but I think it would be better than getting someone who believes 10k dps is acceptable for current content. Despite these flaws I am really looking forward to this system. Hurray for casual pugging on alts! This is a gift from heaven to us time constrained players.
9-30-2011 @ 12:39AM
While not a textbook definition, ninjalooting implies swiping/rolling on loot outside the established rules.This is impossible to do in an automated system. You accept NBG and all its flaws (and merits!) the moment you queue.Anyone not expecting everyone with a need button to hit said need button to fill both of their specs is going into this a little naive. the community is not invested in your "main spec viability", and you are not invested in theirs. Just roll, and don't bank on the outcome.If you want a loot system that affords more customizable control, there are two other modes with two raid group sizes each.See you in the raid, (if you're playing in North America) and may the best roll win. :)
9-30-2011 @ 12:49AM
I should rephrase that.While we may not have to accept that "everyone is rolling both specs", all it takes is one to break an *unenforceable* consensus to stick to "current spec only" to make the whole arrangement moot.Protect yourself. If you'd like the loot, for either spec, roll need.
9-30-2011 @ 1:09AM
@loop_not_definedHunters can currently, and often do, roll on tanking trinkets or strength weapons. This will be a problem in the random raid finder.@omedon666I hope that "roll regardless of main spec or off spec" doesn't become the norm for this. It's a bit different when you've got a once-a-week shot at loot versus once-a-day. I would hope that anyone rolling for offspec loot against a main spec player would be VTK'd. But that's probably naive of me.
9-30-2011 @ 3:52AM
Good luck, Omedon! I hope you have a blast. :)
9-30-2011 @ 4:59AM
>>It would be great if they could fix the need/greed system so hunters (and I do have an>>85 hunter) aren't able to need on just about every damn thing in the game. Whan did you play WOW last time? 2 years ago?Hunter can need mail gear only, can't need anything with int/spirit/strengh on it.
9-30-2011 @ 7:43AM
@BlacktigerWhen have YOU played lfd lately?Agi users can:-Need on strength weapons they can use (axes, swords, RANGED items, maces if rogue or shaman)-Need on "melee" trinkets, rings, necks that have str on them.-Need on TANKING trinkets that have stamina, mastery/tank proc, dodge etc. They are counted as "melee" categoryStrenght users can:-Need on offset agility items such as trinkets, rings, necks.-Need agility weapons they can eguip. Yes I'm fairly sure you can need daggers as warrior too.-Need agility bows/crossbows/guns-Need on "melee" trinkets, rings, necks that have agility on them.Why dont they just add agi and str categories? Its not coding issue nor "too much work". They flat out said that they "want players to have choice".Yet they made it pretty much so that you are forced to use agi or str. Agi wont give attackpower, only slight crit boost and in age where pure power triumphs (str and agi are always better than secondary stats on any class iirc) that crit boost wont be that great. Specially it wont be great to be troll and need tanking trinket as hunter unless somehow dodge proc is awesome at pvp.If sub-optimal is choice can my mage roll on agility daggers? No?
9-30-2011 @ 9:20AM
And Druids can need on all relics, trinkets, rings, and weapons other then swords and axes.
9-30-2011 @ 9:22AM
The rolling is going to be an issue. While even though you can only roll on things you can "use" I could see players rolling need for DE. Yes, some will claim that's just as valid / fair. The same is true for rolling for off-spec... Yes, some will claim that's just as valid. Remember, you only get 1 roll per week per boss.The best way to make this work is stack it with your guild and forget pugs.
9-30-2011 @ 10:13AM
My guild is only going to queue with 13+ people. The moment someone says they won't do vent or decides it is okay to roll need on an off-set or completely wrong item they will get a whisper. "Grats. You have just made my ignore list. Seeing as I always queue as raid leader an there are mostly people with my guild tag flying over our heads, expect this vote kick to suck because you are not getting into a raid with us again. bye bye"I will let that sink in for a second and then start the vote kick. I want us practicing for our real raids, not wasting time dealing with people that are clueless or unwilling to be a good socially.
9-30-2011 @ 1:15PM
Wow, Angus, way to be a bully. That's as bad as people who queue LFD with 4 guildies and lord it over their unfortunate puggie. YOU are joining a random. Do NOT expect people to follow your rules, use your Vent, or enjoy being threatened. If someone treated me like that in a random, I'd let them vote kick me on principle so they ate the VTK timer increase.Not that I agree with rolling Need on offspec, but these people didn't agree to join a pug under your rules, they agreed to Blizzard's. Bullying and threatening is the WRONG WAY to go about it.
9-30-2011 @ 3:13PM
Plate wearers shouldn't get a need option on anything with agility.Hunters, druids and shaman shouldn't get a need option on anything with strength.- Put those two into place and you'd solvea lot of the remaining loot drama in wow.
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