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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrama Mamas: Taking guild drama to Facebook
by Robin Torres 
Oct 3rd 2011 at 9:00AM
Drama is as drama does.
Dear Drama Mamas,
This is something I thought you'd be interested in. WoW being a social community and Facebook being the king of social connectivity right now, I'd like to share recent activities in my guild involving Facebook.
To start from the beginning, about a year ago I quit my first guild with a large group to go form a raiding guild. The guild we left was a very large rp guild on an rp server. I was reluctant to leave the guild, as I had a lot of friends there, including the GM and it was my first guild ever. Needless to say, the way the group presented our leaving did not sit well with the gm of the guild we left. Toons were kicked, we were black listed, harassed, snubbed, etc.
Recently I transferred back to this server and rejoined the same guild that I originally left. Things seemed to be the same as always. However the officers seemed to be more tyrannical than ever. The way people were being treated that weren't part of the officers favorites, the mandatory meetings (attendance being taken, toons being kicked for not attending). Two of the officers were good friends of mine. Even after I left the server, we kept in touch and I had them both on Facebook. One of them received his promotion after I left. Both of us had hunter mains and would talk about hunters constantly. Since I transferred back, I came with some raiding friends of mine, some of which were in the guild along time ago. The raid teams the guild had broke up, but we pulled from the roster and got the guild achievement for the cata raids and the phoenix mount. My officer friend with the hunter actually quit playing his hunter and wouldn't even talk to me. (Yes, I am the best geared hunter in the guild and 7th on my server). We were heroes for 5 minutes. My officer friend was there to heal the Nef fight when we got the achievement. Then the back stabbing, side talk and animosity started. My friends all left the guild, but I stayed. The other two that stayed with me started feeling the hatred pouring out of guild chat at us.
Recently, with Brewfest dungeon running going on, there was a call out in guild chat for a healer. I asked if they wanted me to switch from my hunter to heals to help out. After a few minutes, and asking again I got a response. So I stopped what I was doing to go heal it for them. Our tank was in ret pvp gear. I commented on it and he said he was building his tank set (with no tank gear equipped). The hunter that was in the group, after the loot dropped, announced he'd be healing the next runs, dropped party, logged into his healer and announced in guild chat he was ready for an invite. Needless to say, I felt very put out by this.
It's commonly taken for granted in this guild that this behavior is acceptable because we are all one big happy family, and because it's guildies, this is ok. Now here's the good part.
I was pissed. I logged into my Facebook page, stating that if this ever happened again I was leaving. The group I was with was very rude, didn't even thank me for going, and they made me feel extremely unwelcome. Well, the officer that that I talked about earlier saw this on my Facebook page. Instead of talking to me about it, he told our GM what I had written. This past weekend, I was kicked for posting slander against my guild on Facebook. Keep in mind, no names were mentioned, I didn't say I was quitting just that that hat been my breaking point, and I did pull out 2 low level toons that I made into bankers (I'm not an alt player and they know that: almost 3 yrs of playing and I have 2 level 85's). The other officer that I was friends with, when she saw my post immediately contacted me about what happened, trying to offer advise on the best course of action. The GM was the one who kicked me, with no explanation, no letter, nothing, just the boot. He and I had been friends before, and were actually getting close again. What really happened I don't know. But my concerns are, when is a game a game, and where do you separate real life from the guild. My feelings were hurt that a supposed friend used my post against me, either because of jealously or just plain spite. Where does it stop?
Victim of Social Networking
Drama Mama Robin: Victim, you're no victim in this. Sorry, but I'm going to have to be bit hard on you. Your letter is a list of what not to do if you want to avoid drama.- Don't burn bridges. Your group originally left your RP guild in such a way as to cause bad feelings. It seems that the bridge was burned on both sides. When leaving a guild (or a job or a bowling league or whatever), you should always try to do so in such a way that you could go back if you need or want to -- or so that you can count on these people for references for future endeavors.
- Don't return to a known drama-filled situation. You burned the bridge and then found that people aren't treating you well. That is completely to be expected.
- Do leave if the guild atmosphere is hostile. You describe your guild as "tyrannical" and that it has "hatred pouring out of guild chat." Eject, eject, eject!
- Guilds without rules -- where anything goes because you're all friends -- are disasters waiting to happen. "It's commonly taken for granted in this guild that this behavior is acceptable because we are all one big, happy family, and because it's guildies, this is OK." /shudder Just like the "it's only a game" excuse, this is used to allow bad behavior.
- Don't issue public ultimatums. Avoiding ultimatums at all is generally best, but taking it public is going to cause this kind of a mess every time.
And that last point is the real crux of the matter. You're not the victim here because you perpetrated the big drama yourself. I'm going to paraphrase the wisdom of a very wise but NSFW post by Joe the Peacock:
Don't post things you don't want people to find out about on the internet.
If you don't want your work, teacher, husband or guild to find out about it, don't put it on Facebook. Also, don't put it in an email that can be forwarded to interested parties. And don't say it in chat where it can be screenshot. If you have something to say, say it privately to the appropriate party. Do it calmly, rationally, and with facts. Venting behind backs only damages the situation whether you are in Azeroth or on Earth.
The lessons of real life should be applied to WoW and vice versa. I hope you learn from all this nasty drama and are able to find a more comfortable raiding guild that is suited to your tastes.
Drama Mama Lisa: Victim of Social Networking, your closing lines sum up your entire problem: "But my concerns are, when is a game a game, and where do you separate real life from the guild." Where do you separate all of that?The truth: You don't.
Welcome to real life, Victim. All these people you're playing World of Warcraft with? They're real people. World of Warcraft happens in the real world, and all those guildmates you're playing with have real feelings. What you do in game matters just as much as what you do anywhere else. Facebook is no different -- say something there, and it's been said. Period. You haven't said it conditionally; you've said it publicly, and in fact, you've committed it to the public record.
What you do in World of Warcraft is real. What you post on Facebook is real. You don't get to discount any of it because it's "just a game." Is that horse dead yet? I hope so. This mistaken idea that you can artificially separate your behavior in different arenas because anything online is not "real life" leads to nothing but trouble.
Unfortunately, artificially separating online behavior is only half the problem here. You also seem to been blundering blithely through WoW without a second thought for the effect your actions have on others. Why did you push your way back into your original guild after leaving on such bad terms? Did you ask anyone about forming a new raid group before the night you did so? What did you think was going to happen when you created an independent group to tackle content the guild hadn't yet done? Bottom line: You barged into a group where you weren't really welcome and then proceeded to pee all over their progression curve. Talk about awkward ...
But enough of that. Let's break this down to send you forward with some kind of game plan:
- It's long past time to go. There's nothing but drama and hard feelings left in this situation. It's time to leave -- all your characters, every last alt. Don't make any big announcements on the forums, in guildchat or on Facebook, either. Send a whisper to your GM telling him you've decided to move on, thank him for having you, give him a chance to say anything he has to say, then leave. Preferably at a quiet time of the day or late night (but not without informing your GM first).
- Get ready for rules. Having rules is not "tyrannical" -- it's what keeps guilds from tumbling into drama-drenched chaos. If you want a guild that treats players fairly, you want a guild that both has rules and enforces them.
- Join a group that does what you want to do. Twice now, you've had problems fitting into this guild because the things they do don't fit what you want to do. Find a group that's raiding at your level, not a roleplaying guild or a guild whose players raid at much lower gear and progression levels.
- Make your way under your own power. Give yourself a chance to meet other players and find a guild based on your own merits, rather than your current or past relationships. Make it about how you play the game, not how you want the people you are with to play the game.
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at Robin@wowinsider.com.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Robin Torres Oct 3rd 2011 11:35AM
muhahahahaha
MisterRik Oct 3rd 2011 2:28PM
In my own experience, the people who argue, "It's just a game" to justify their behavior are often the same people who, if you *criticize* or complain about that behavior, also proclaim, "Well it's an MMO with lots of people who don't play the same way you do!"
And so I'm left thinking it must be a generational thing or something. I'm 45, and was raised with the idea that when surrounded by other people I should behave in a considerate manner and be aware of how my actions may affect those other people. But what I see from many people whom I can only assume are much younger and were raised to believe that "I'm special" means "I'm more important than everybody else" is that they believe that "multiplayer" means "Everybody just needs to suck it up and put up with my !@#$, because I have to put up with their !@#$."
adyuaa Oct 3rd 2011 9:11PM
I think the phrase "Just a game is when you piss an NPC off, not another player" is just right.
Sunaseni Oct 3rd 2011 11:44AM
You threatened to leave, they called your bluff. If anything, I commend your former guild for having balls to do that. You issued the ultimatum, now live with the fallout. Find a guild suited to your ego.
Luis Alluren Oct 3rd 2011 5:11PM
zing !
i thought the same but i'm sure i would have word it in a way i'd be down-voted...
p.s.-- am i the only person who doesn't have Facebook ?
StClair Oct 3rd 2011 6:34PM
No, no you are not.
Brodi Oct 3rd 2011 11:53AM
Evil woman. You and your crazy hair.
puffcake Oct 3rd 2011 12:22PM
To mirror the other sentiments here, and to put it less gently than our columnists: anyone who brings drama to facebook or twitter or any other oversharing, instant-access-to-every-thought-and-feeling website deserves what he or she gets. This world has shifted to one where individuals believe their every thought, emotion, feeling, and interaction merits the attention of an instantly available internet audience, and that's so sad, misguided, and destructive. The original letter-writer is aptly named, because people like that tend to remain "victims" for their entire lives.
Nagaina Oct 3rd 2011 1:34PM
I'm going to voice an unpopular opinion here: Victim, it was bullshit that your so-called "friend" used something you said in your personal space to attack you in your guild. You made no ultimatums -- you were blowing off steam off the game instead of causing drama in guild chat, and someone brought the drama to you, rather than the other way around. You have every right to express your feelings as you see fit in a space that you solely control, no matter how public or private that space may be, and for someone else who has access to that information to use it knife you is terrifically rotten behavior on *their* part, not yours. Your trust was betrayed and you have every right to be upset by that.
That being said, the Mamas do give some sound advice here: it seems like you were getting increasingly dissatisfied with your former guild. Since your ex-guildie's bullshit handed you lemons, make some lemonade, and find a place that suits you better.
humperdinck Oct 3rd 2011 8:02PM
Really? What if Victim was complaining about their awful job and their shitty boss, and their boss reads it? The boss should ignore it because that's the Victim's personal space? Public is public.
Nagaina Oct 3rd 2011 8:47PM
@ Humperdinck ~
Point One: Your GL isn't your "boss." He, she, or it is someone you occasionally spend leisure time with. And you're allowed to not like everyone in your guild and say so.
Point Two: I think it's obnoxious, stalkery bullshit that *actual* bosses troll Facebook looking for things to hold against their employees. Things that you say on your own time, in your own space, are *absolutely* none of their fucking business. The fact that you're arguing in *favor* of such rancid employer overreach and invasive behavior tells me a great deal about how degraded our rights to personal expression and privacy have actually become.
Skarlette Oct 3rd 2011 9:34PM
We don't know if the Facebook post was viewable by the public, or all the OP's WoW friends, or whatever. You can control who sees your posts. Assuming the OP made the post *knowing* it was visible to guildies, he can't very well complain that they read it. He typed it, it's not like they used their psychic powers to read his mind.
Bellajtok Oct 3rd 2011 1:49PM
I'm going to go by personal experience and diagnose the writer with "FirstGuilditis", as well as a touch of "Attention Seeking Syndrome." That second one is just kind of standard for people helping drama along. My concern here is the first problem.
Most people remember their first guild. They were the ones who helped you out, introduced you to the really social part of the game. The reason the game is an MMO despite Trade chat trolls. Probably they were a low level, small guild who were more than willing to recruit and train lowbies. Eventually, either the guild improves and starts doing activities you're interested in, or you have to leave as you grow beyond it.
It's hard to leave any struggling guild, but it's especially hard to leave your first, with all the friendships you quickly formed. And when you come back, as this guy did, and see that your old guild might be doing better, you want to jump back in and rejoin that initial experience. But no matter how few bridges you burned on the way out, it's never possible to come back to that.
It sounds like that happened to Victim, but instead of trying to fit in to the new guild, he tried to change it and got frustrated when it didn't change for him. By the way, if it sounds like I'm speaking from experience, it's because I am.
Bellajtok Oct 3rd 2011 5:22PM
I guess I should clarify: My experience with my first guild was very nice, until people started to drift away and I started to learn more about guilds. As the best officers (who, it was clear, were much better players than the GM) started to leave, the GM started taking a more active role than the social one he had been filling before.
As I continued to play with him, I began to realize that he was a terrible player and incredibly rude to the players we would run with in randoms. I called him out on it, and he stopped.... sometimes. He was still overbearing and controlling, despite my best anti-drama efforts. And we still weren't raiding, despite our recruiting efforts.
At some point, I'm not sure when, I realized that it was effectively a guild of three people, a stable of alts, and a few low-level players who never talked or did anything. So I left, and found another guild that promised raiding.
What I cannot say is "And I never looked back." I've seen my first guild advertising in Trade, and it looks like they're building a decent group. I miss the the nice talks, how much fun it was. In fact, I whispered the leader last night and had a nice talk with him about how things are going.
From talking to him, it seems like everyone that used to be there is gone, and I kind of worry that it was my fault they left, because I know at least one person followed me out. But at the same time, I know it was the right decision for me, and I can't regret that.
LynMars Oct 3rd 2011 2:19PM
We do IC guild meetings and help support the RP events on our server. We have a process to join to make sure people know what they're getting into and are a "fit" for the guild style. We hang out in a specific area so people can find us for RP when just logged in and not doing instances. Guild Chat is generally IC only, with other channels for OOC chatter. There are also server-wide channels on both factions and guild and a general website for posting stories, RP logs, artwork, advertising events, etc.
There's a lot of instance running, and probably could run more RP events--the trouble is finding good times for everyone not conflicting with other stuff already going on, or real life schedules. We raid mostly IC, or at least have IC discussions during it.
Most people on my server aren't always IC the entire time they're logged in, and like doing other things as well, unless it's a very small niche guild with no aspirations of any endgame content. Depending on one's definition of "good" RP or "enough" RP, there's plenty for whoever wants to find it, and I've seen people decline dungeons or raids because they were RPing.
Mileage varies as always, and I wouldn't say the RP is "bad" because people also like endgame. Also, officers aren't always the only ones who can organize stuff--I got to be an officer in my main RP guild (I actually raid with my alt RP guild as they're larger/more interested, and we might as well be one guild except for character concept reasons) by helping organize events, recruiting more RPers, etc, with the blessings of the leadership.
LynMars Oct 3rd 2011 2:20PM
Stupid reply system. Should be replying to my own comment and the response it got. -_-
MisterRik Oct 3rd 2011 2:38PM
Heh. Agreed about the reply system! I figured out you were responding to me, though :)
Eirik Oct 3rd 2011 4:14PM
> officers aren't always the only ones who can organize stuff
/agree
In the best (IMO) of cases, it is the "willing to / capable at" organize that is the significant part.
Being an officer gives an organizer more tools with which to organize. Being an organizer gives an officer a responsibility they may not be interested in, comfortable with, or adept at. If you see what I mean.
Jyotai Oct 3rd 2011 2:57PM
While I feel that the questioner in this one definitely did create his own mess that he's now stewing in, I'm going to disagree with 'Drama Mama Lisa' about "artificially separating online behavior".
Its not artificial at all to make the separation. We all have multiple zones of interaction in our lives, and assume different senses of our identity within them, and often even different identities.
Just because the people in WoW are real people playing it alongside me - it does not mean they are a part of my "real" or rather "non-WoW" life.
But them not being that does not give me or anyone else an excuse to be rude or badly behaved as the questioner was.
On the one side there is this common attitude of "its the internet and I can do anything with no consequence."
On the other side there is this attitude of "its the internet and its your real identity and you must be 100% open about who you are in RL and must 100% mix your virtual and physical identities and self."
Both are extremist views to take, and a more middle perspective is a lot healthier.
paperpro Oct 3rd 2011 3:25PM
I think the point of the entire post was lost in translation. He had a problem with a run. Possibly this wasn't the first bad guild run he had been on. This was most likely the breaking point for him. He posted something on facebook about how he had been treated. The "friend" was also on his facebook and had been for a long time apparently. "Friend" who was also an officer of the guild, told the GM about the post, GM guild kicked. Couple of wrongs here. "Friend" wasn't being a friend to "Victim". From earlier in the post, friend and victim were sounded like they were pretty tight. "Victim" should have gone to "friend" to talk about what had happened, and I think "friend" when he saw that post could've asked "victim" what was going on, being an officer of the guild. I don't think "victim" was trying to be elitist, or anything like that. If "victim" was feeling like "friend" wasn't a friend anymore, he shouldn't have posted it on facebook where there was a chance at all it could be taken out of context or used against him like it was.
Everyone has good points they made about social networking as a whole.