Patch 4.3: Raid Finder loot rules updated
by Mathew McCurley 
Oct 7th 2011 at 2:00PM
We will have more information as it becomes available, but at first glance, this system seems to fit very well within what Blizzard is trying to go for in terms of Raid Finder accessibility. Tanks get to roll on tank gear, DPSers get to roll on DPS gear, and healers get to roll on healing gear. Greed rolls are still available for off-spec gear and do not function like the need rolls, so if no tank needs something, for example, the greed roll system will still work as intended. I think these will be positive changes.
Raid Finder loot rules
In response to concerns regarding how loot will be distributed in the Raid Finder system, we are making some changes to how loot rolls will work when using the Need Before Greed system in the Raid Finder. When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll. For purposes of this check, your currently assigned role is defined as the class role you have assigned when a boss is defeated. Sound confusing? I hope not, but here's how it'll work:
A boss dies and drops EPIC TANKING ITEM.
A mage in the group yawns and clicks the "Greed" button, getting a 98.
A Fury warrior in the group wants to take up tanking, so he rolls "Need" and gets a solid 64.
Both tanks want the item. Tank 1 rolls a 12, and Tank 2 rolls a 7.
So what happens?
Because the mage rolled greed, she's right out from the start. The Fury warrior's Need roll was higher than the tanks', but he was in the Damage Dealer role when the boss died, and the item is flagged for tanking, so his 64 is still just a 64 out of a possible 100. In contrast, Tank 1 and Tank 2 each get a 100 point bonus to their rolls because they were in the Tanking role when the boss died and they're rolling on an item that has been flagged for the tanking role. That means that Tank 1 rolled a 112 out of 200, and tank 2 rolled a 107 out of 200. Tank 1 wins the item! If a roll got a bonus, that bonus will be clearly displayed in the chat log.
Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec. This bonus isn't only for tanking items either – it applies to Tanking, Damage Dealing, and Healing items, and some items are flagged for more than one class role too. Starting out, only Dragon Soul raid items will be flagged for class roles in this way (though all of the items in the raid will be flagged for one or more roles). As you might expect, all the normal Need Before Greed rules are still in place, so that means that these roll bonuses won't overrule normal class and usability restrictions. Item tooltips in the raid won't reflect which class roles will get rolling bonuses, but it should be fairly obvious based on stat allocations and item type.
We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we'll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it's released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.
A boss dies and drops EPIC TANKING ITEM.
A mage in the group yawns and clicks the "Greed" button, getting a 98.
A Fury warrior in the group wants to take up tanking, so he rolls "Need" and gets a solid 64.
Both tanks want the item. Tank 1 rolls a 12, and Tank 2 rolls a 7.
So what happens?
Because the mage rolled greed, she's right out from the start. The Fury warrior's Need roll was higher than the tanks', but he was in the Damage Dealer role when the boss died, and the item is flagged for tanking, so his 64 is still just a 64 out of a possible 100. In contrast, Tank 1 and Tank 2 each get a 100 point bonus to their rolls because they were in the Tanking role when the boss died and they're rolling on an item that has been flagged for the tanking role. That means that Tank 1 rolled a 112 out of 200, and tank 2 rolled a 107 out of 200. Tank 1 wins the item! If a roll got a bonus, that bonus will be clearly displayed in the chat log.
Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec. This bonus isn't only for tanking items either – it applies to Tanking, Damage Dealing, and Healing items, and some items are flagged for more than one class role too. Starting out, only Dragon Soul raid items will be flagged for class roles in this way (though all of the items in the raid will be flagged for one or more roles). As you might expect, all the normal Need Before Greed rules are still in place, so that means that these roll bonuses won't overrule normal class and usability restrictions. Item tooltips in the raid won't reflect which class roles will get rolling bonuses, but it should be fairly obvious based on stat allocations and item type.
We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we'll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it's released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.
Brace yourselves for what could be some of most exciting updates to the game recently with patch 4.3. Review the official patch notes, and then dig into what's ahead: new item storage options, cross-realm raiding, cosmetic armor skinning and your chance to battle the mighty Deathwing -- from astride his back!
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 8)
Angus Oct 7th 2011 2:03PM
I wish this rule was in effect in ALL lfg groups. Sick of a plate DPS Coming in and needing the tank item out from under me and refusing to tank.
jordan Oct 7th 2011 2:09PM
something makes me think that this will be implemented in all lfg
Moeru Oct 7th 2011 2:10PM
Blizzard stance on LFG items is very loose. They want players to be able to reason and decide on their own, and you can run heroics all day if you want.
When it comes to LFR, though, I assume they have to put this in place because of the lack of a master looter system or similar, and you can only down each boss once per week for loot.
Boobah Oct 7th 2011 2:37PM
I'll be happy if this goes in for everything so that when I'm getting gear for my healer or tank role I can keep it away from the grubby fingers of the enchanter without stepping on the toes of the folks who are actually healing or tanking.
Chrisvanren Oct 7th 2011 3:16PM
I see one situation where this a problem. Feral & Boomkins both flagged as DPS. A piece of Agi gear is flagged as dps & probably tank. Who gets it in that situation if they all need? Seems like they should all get the bonus if it's just based on what role you queued as & not stats/spec.
Outdatedkero Oct 7th 2011 3:20PM
Its still useless, there will still be feral druids able to need on caster dps loot while being a cat. The system needs to check talent specs not just roles.
Snuzzle Oct 7th 2011 3:22PM
I just wish it would actually look at SPEC. I'm sick of cat druids coming in with no Thick Hide and trying to tank in my heroic dungeons for a quick queue. DKs do this occasionally but it's more obvious now since their only tanking spec is Blood. People see a Feral druid and just assume he's a squishy tank -- not that he's a cat. :|
Donhorn Oct 7th 2011 3:30PM
@Chrisvanren
They state that at least for now it doesn't read spec, but I'm fairly sure that they'll still be working that out as we get closer to 4.3 release. If by spec is not in place by 4.3 it'll probably be soon(tm) after.
Bellajtok Oct 7th 2011 3:36PM
Spec will be read indirectly, as the Need option is only available to appropriate gear/class matchups. Just as they are now. So that should help, though it's certainly no substitute.
Chrisvanren Oct 7th 2011 3:44PM
@Bellajtok
As it stands right now Boomkins can need roll on any piece of leather no matter the stats. I still see there being a problem. They'll have to implement spec/stat match checking for this to work imo.
DarkWalker Oct 7th 2011 4:13PM
It might be wishful thinking on my part, but:
"""We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we'll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now."""
It seems to me like the plan is to do this also for LFD, for all dungeons released from now onwards.
"""Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec."""
I would like to think that this means that eventually Blizzard plans to look at specs. Not sure why they don't do this right now, though - the only potentially problematic spec is Feral Druids, out of all 30 specs in the game; all other specs have a well defined role.
I still prefer GW2's method for rewarding the "raid" fights (individual loot plus per-event rewards that can be used to purchase loot that would drop at the event), or even TOR's method for the easy difficulty "raids" (per player loot container).
At the very least, Blizzard should make items won through a "need" roll unsaleable and non-disenchanteable, besides being soulbound as of now. Make it so items won through a "need" roll are only useful for actually equipping, so players that already have better gear would be better served by not rolling "need" at all, as the item would be completely useless for them.
mem0ryburn Oct 7th 2011 5:06PM
@Outdatedkero "Useless"? Not at all. Still some issues left unresolved? Sure. If they can't yet make everybody happy, a step in the right direction that resolves 80% (obviously pretend stats) of the problem still seems like a no-brainer, and calling it useless is ridiculous. Glad you're not on the board of decision makers at Blizz or nothing would probably ever get implemented.
BAHill Oct 7th 2011 5:40PM
I too wish this rule applied for ALL LFG instances. I hate loosing a great piece of tanking gear to a DPS because they can hit the Need button and do so...
How would Feral Tanks work though? My Bear likes the same gear as the DPS, am I automatically going to loose the roll because I have my role set to "Tank" (All other tanks are Plate and want Dodge/Parry, Bears want Leather Agility gear - much the same as a Rogue or Fearal DPS)? Will this only work against Tank/Healer gear and it is a free for all with regards to the DPS based gear?
wybenga42 Oct 7th 2011 11:05PM
This must be what the new client string refers to:
LOOT_ROLL_ROLLED_NEED_ROLE_BONUS = "Need Roll - %d for %s by %s + Role Bonus";
Windshear of Duskwood Oct 7th 2011 2:06PM
Finally getting rid of loot ninja dps.
V Magius Oct 7th 2011 2:53PM
The preferred term is "loot pirate". And, it's not like tanks and healers haven't rolled on dps gear. I wouldn't be surprised if more tanks and healers rolled on dps gear prior to dual spec than the other way around.
You might want to actually read some of those ninja threads in their entirety.
That being said, I don't mind it being in the LFR, but would rather it not be in LFD. LFR, you can't really try for it again until next week. LFD, you can try for it again in 5 minutes. And, yes, I've lost loot rolls against another role. It's annoying, but I move on.
Windshear of Duskwood Oct 7th 2011 3:22PM
Oh boy, Ninjas vs. Pirates... I guess whatever tickles your fancy. I mean technically I call them loot stormtroopers, but not everyone would understand what I meant. Regardless of technical definition, the basics are a loser who takes something he doesn't deserve because he really wants an offset.
jfofla Oct 7th 2011 3:36PM
Rolling Need on ANY item the game allows you to roll on is perfectly acceptable.
Player loot rules are outside of the game's rules, and are more fictional than real.
Jyotai Oct 7th 2011 3:58PM
Loot pirate?
Been playing WoW since 2006 and never heard that before. Not once.
As for try again in heroics: You might be able to queue again, but you might not be able to finish it again...
If you're in a PUG with a lot of people 'gearing up' that's taken 2 hours to reach the final boss, and he drops that thing you've been looking for for 2 weeks... and a person not even in the spec for it needs it over you... its not much consolation to know you can hit the 'i' key and start all over.
Socialcockroach Oct 7th 2011 4:08PM
@jfofla
There is such a thing as common courtesy. Yes, you CAN roll need on items that don't reflect your current group role but that doesn't mean you should. True enough it is a fictional rule, but then again much of human interaction is built on unspoken rules.
For instance, you are in an line for a popular movie at a theater. There is no law against some guy letting a group of ten of his buddies budge in front of him, but it is considered very rude. The "rule" of no cutting is "factitious", but that doesn't mean that you wont end up pissing people off for breaking it. If you are fine with pissing others off in your own selfish interests, by all means continue but keep in mind, most people don't respond to that behavior very well. You may end up being the guy who gets his food spat in because he was a dick to the waiter.