Drama Mamas: Dealing with WoW bashing
by Robin Torres 
Oct 10th 2011 at 1:00PM
Robin may or may not rant later.
Dear Drama Mamas,
I'm wondering if others have been experiencing something similar to a new guild I recently tried out:
My wife and I have been looking for a new "home" to transfer to, since many of our RL friends hardly play, if at all, and our previous friends/family guild almost entirely perma-logged and moved on from WoW. We've been testing guilds by starting new toons and joining up to get a feel for the guild before dropping $$$ on transferring.
One such guild was suggested by a WoW Insider poster. At first it was exciting to be in a guild with someone who was about as big a WoW nerd as I was, but after joining their guild's Facebook page, it quickly went from good to bad. There were about 3-5 members who regularly trash-talked WoW and were eager to play something new/different. I got the feeling much of this trash-talking was intended to draw more WoW guildies away to play with them. The worst part was that the poster who got me into the guild had become one of them.
The guild leader mostly tried her best to remind everybody that they were all friends, and that the friendship spanned beyond a single game. However, it seemed like there was no attempt to actively stop the trashing. It's certainly possible she was contacting them in private, but if so, it was having little effect.
In the end, I left the Facebook group and stopped logging into that particular alt. Some of the WoW players were great folk and I would love to stay in contact with them, but don't really know how to go about it.
So I think these are my questions:
1) Is there anything the guild leader could have done differently? Should tackling the problem publicly been considered?
2) Is it too late to become, at the very least, Real ID friends with the few I did get along with? It's been about 2 or 3 months since last logging in, and we only got to chat a handful of times over vent. Not sure if it would be appropriate now.
3) How common is this situation? Should I expect to deal with jaded ex-/pseudo-members?
Thrown For A Loop
Drama Mama Robin: Thrown, though I preach in this column that public snittiness causes drama, I just can't help myself when it comes to people who play World of Warcraft trash talking it. I always say "Then stop playing it!" or something similar. I really don't get why people pay the monthly fee to play a game they are not enjoying. If it's for the social aspect, there are a bajillion ways to keep in touch (like the Facebook page that the guild already has).A related complaint is the "OMG subscriptions dropped by X amount. WoW is dead!" So many people got into the MMO business because EQ had half a million at its peak. That was considered a lot of subscription money. Stop being a Debbie Downer, and play if you enjoy it; otherwise, go on your un-merry way.
I also don't get why people who have stopped playing it (or worse, have never played) feel the need to criticize WoW players for continuing to play. Dude, you made your choice to not play, and I'm sure it's the right one. But don't harsh my WoW buzz if I still think it's fun. It happens often when I stream -- "People still play that game?" or "WoW is lame; you should play [insert game name here]." Are you being paid to lure people to another game? No? Then move on, buddy.
Oops, I ranted. I should answer your questions now.
- It's hard as a guild leader when a large portion of your players are having the in-between patches/expansions blues. This periodic grumbling is common among many guilds. It's also hard to police a Facebook page as you would guild chat. I think a pleasant forum/Facebook post that requested that all anti-WoW grumbling be taken to another forum would probably have been the best thing to do.
- I think it may be too late to become Real ID friends with the ones you liked. It may seem a little creepy that you suddenly reappear and ask for very sensitive info. (And Real ID is definitely a reduction of your security.)
- As I said, this becomes very common when people tire of the current content. But there are also many guilds who don't have that problem or don't condone the verbal misery, so peruse the public postings of the guilds you are interested in before you make a commitment.
This situation is also common in other online games. When I played EQ, I had guildies badmouth it and try to get us to play Asheron's Call. All the "Tribes was better" whining while enjoying Tribes II was rather annoying as well. And there were many guildies in Star Wars Galaxies who were constantly complaining about that game long before it was completely ruined (still bitter).
Good luck in finding a guild where people enjoy playing the game. And pity the people paying a monthly fee to whine.
Drama Mama Lisa: As a member of a gaming group that just can't find a game to call home right now, I can sympathize with your guildies. Falling out of love with a game like World of Warcraft happens at all different levels. Some players (like my own husband, /sob) become utterly repelled by the game as soon as they realize it doesn't feel like home anymore; they can't play a moment longer, although they want to keep socializing with the gang just like your guildmates do on Facebook. Others keep playing, but they may start missing raids and guild events, inadvertently scattershotting the rest of the group's efforts with their lackadaisical attitude. Other players fall permanently out of sync with the rest of the guild, leveling alt after alt or switching mains that never seem to catch up with the current progression curve.So why don't these players or guilds just switch games? That's actually harder than it sounds. Not everyone will choose to move to the new big thing, and not everyone will want to plunk down the money to buy it and try it. You have to find a game with enough content to give everyone something to do, even the guy who plays from work and logs in again as soon as he gets home every day; that's a high bar for a brand new release. And to top if off, a new game's no fun if the whole gang doesn't come along. A handful of players is rarely able to stick together closely enough to enjoy leveling and grouping together on an ongoing basis.
So what does that mean for you? If you choose to tag with a persistent gaming group with members who are burned out on WoW, I'm afraid it means tolerating a certain level of passive-aggressive swipes at World of Warcraft. Guilds like this frequently recruit in an effort to inject new blood and energy into the mix (hence, your enthusiastic recruitment by your fellow WoW Insider reader). But the fact is, you've joined an established social group, not a WoW-specific raiding group. The guild leader's reaction makes this clear. If she were making an effort to move the malcontents along, things would be considerably different -- but she's not, and they're not, and so you have to face the fact that the situation is not likely to change.
At any rate, you've noted that it's been two to three months since you've last talked with these people. That's an eternity in online time. It behooves you to log in today -- not tomorrow, today -- and get the lay of land. See if the folks you enjoy hanging out with are even still around. Unless you can reconnect with them in the immediate future, your path is clear: It's time to move on to greener pastures.
Happy hunting!
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at Robin@wowinsider.com.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Skyshard Oct 10th 2011 1:12PM
I agree with Lisa. I HATE when people bash WoW, on forums, in the game, etc. I will never understand why people feel the need to put down others for doing something they enjoy, especially if the downers are still playing the game themselves.
your not cool, or clever, or ironic, your just really annoying.... rarg.
Skyshard Oct 10th 2011 1:13PM
Err, Robin, I mean, heh.
Pyromelter Oct 10th 2011 2:05PM
Well, remember, a lot of people bash wow just to troll. Since wow has the most people playing it, you potentially get the biggest response, so it's the biggest target for trolls.
With the letter-writer is talking about, though, is not just trollish behavior, but people really trying to convince others to move on from wow.
Let me put this in perspective: When you're out playing the game, maybe leveling a character through outland, what kind of chat do you see in Hellfire? Nagrand? Terrokar? Zangarmarsh? Do you usually see trollish behavior? Or do you see people that might be trying to get a group up for Ramps, or an elite quest or two? Maybe drawing people in for the Ring of Blood quest in Nagrand? My point being, is when people are playing the game, they use the chat system for actually playing the game. It's generally when you get to a city and see /trade or go on forums that you see all this stuff. It's best to just ignore all that, because trolls will be trolls, and they are everywhere on the internet.
Jyotai Oct 10th 2011 4:26PM
OMG WoW sux so bad, you noob still play that game tha...
Wait...
I still play this thing.
OMG Wow is awesome. How can anyone play anything else. Those noobs who quit are such losers.
DarkWalker Oct 10th 2011 4:49PM
Not accusing anyone here of doing this, but there is a fair amount of WoW players that seem to think anyone who does not says WoW is the best thing since sliced bread is bashing the game, and anyone who dares to mention anything positive about a competing game is trying to draw players away from WoW.
You can readily notice this on the forums. It's not uncommon to find posts that attempt to be constructive criticisms, but end being almost pure flaming and mud slinging after a few rabid fanbois appear to "defend" WoW.
It's one of the things that made me criticise WoW quite a bit. I'm a sucker for flame bait, unfortunately, so I would often get into the discussion to try to point the most glaring errors and misconceptions. When countering a rabid fanboi, this often meant criticising the game quite a bit, pointing where it wasn't all that the fanboi made of it.
(The opposite was also true; I would attempt to defend the game from unwarranted slurs. Those were not nearly as common in my experience, though.)
BTW, a disclaimer: I have moved on from WoW, my subscription expired in January, and I'm actively trying to get some of my RL friends to try other games (I didn't attempt to get them to leave, though; they left on their own even before me). I still read WoW related sites because I might still return depending on the direction Blizzard takes WoW - Cataclysm, for me at least, was akin to a train wreck - and WoW is still the best reference for anyone who wants to see how a MMO develops in time.
Skyshard Oct 10th 2011 5:02PM
Darkwalker~
I totally get what you are saying. I have no problem with people criticizing WoW, if it is something constructive, and it is kept as an opinion. What annoys me are the people who feel the need to put things like, "WoW sucks, and you all suck for playing it."
I like to think that it is no one else's business what I play, and just because they do not like the game it does not mean everyone else they meet needs to hate it too.
I play other MMOs, and there are one's I like, and one's I never play anymore because I don't like them. Cool for me, and no bother to anyone else. So, who am I to go telling the people who still play it that I think it is dumb.
I guess I am just saying, in a round about way, that I dislike when people make something their business, like someone playing WoW, and feel the need to poke fun at people for something.
And if someone is playing the game themselves, they should not bash it (again constructive criticism is one thing). It's just rude, and annoying, and not helpful.
furrama Oct 10th 2011 5:08PM
One thing I don't like though:
Let's say you think WoW, (or some other game), is making decisions that you think will hurt it in the long run, or that you have the opinion that it should make decisions soon that changes something old in order to make it better, something like that. Any general beef like that. You don't hate the game, you just think it could be better, that sort of thing. You personally want to see it do well, but have no problem calling it out on its crap when you see it.
I hate, HATE when you get put in the WoW bashing camp for what is essentially critique. Some critique isn't helpful or is directionless and obviously uneducated, those people aren't much help to anyone, but those who do put thought and effort into their critique shouldn't be put in the WoW bashing camp. The almighty Blizzard isn't perfect. It makes mistakes, it fixes them, it makes new ones. Don't plug your ears saying "NAH NAH NAH", just listen and take it with a grain of salt.
Suss Oct 10th 2011 10:56PM
A lot of the criticism I see is well-reasoned. I think it's increased because people aren't bored with the game as Robin theorizes; instead, people feel like the game they liked was ripped away from them when Cataclysm launched late last year. The complaints are desperate pleas to bring back whatever they think they've lost. Put another way, in the past, players dumped WoW on their own but now they feel like WoW dumped them.
sharlatan Oct 11th 2011 7:06AM
the only thing worse than wowbashing, is mindless adoration of wow.
People pay to play, if that does not give them a right to say what they think is wrong with the product they are paying for, I dont know what does.
If you cant admit that there are problems in wow, you need to take off the rose tinted goggles before you log in one day to find your the last one left.
If wow wants to remain great, it needs to adress its problems andthe first step is identifying them.
Duts Oct 11th 2011 4:50PM
"It's best to just ignore all that, because trolls will be trolls, and they are everywhere on the internet."
Hide your kids, hide your wife and hide your husband cuz they're rapin everybody out here!
Hey! You trolls get off mah lawn!!!!!
Garthix Oct 10th 2011 1:14PM
You shouldn't have let a few bad apples ruin it for you.
I went through some pretty similar stuff in the past and in the end made a guild and filled it with the sort of people I like. It tool a while but was worth it and is now a nice place for people to hang out :-)
If your in the eu pop into draenor horde and look up kignar I love nerd chats :-)
Noyou Oct 10th 2011 1:15PM
Find another guild. This guild leader is clearly not in control of hers. If she lets this persist there is no telling what else she lets go. I am of the mindset that everyone deserves a peaceful guild experience. If someone is dropping too much colorful language I will let them know. Usually first a public message, if they persist, a private one. I have no problem with booting a guild member on a first offense. As the GM part of my job is to weed out people. Most of them make it easy. Most people will be willing to tone it down once talked to. Those who are not /gkick. It's that simple.
As for asking people you don't really know to be on your real ID list. I would strongly advise against it. I know people do it all the time. I am not one of those people :) Hope this advice helps.
Pyromelter Oct 10th 2011 2:10PM
So much agreed. The multi-game guilds I know of never sit there and bash any one game -they will talk about the good and the bad, but they won't just blatantly talk crap about it. Usually the worst of it is comes along the lines of "Guys, I think I'm tired of this (insert MMO game), should I go back to WoW or wait for SWTOR?" And each game will have it's own forum on the guild website for people to talk about it. Behavior as described in the letter would be a definite gkick.
Pyromelter Oct 10th 2011 1:16PM
First, I want to really agree with Robin, people who are bashing a game, especially in trying to get people to move to another game, they really deserve a "Then stop playing it!"
Something Lisa said struck me:
"So why don't these players or guilds just switch games?...You have to find a game with enough content to give everyone something to do, even the guy who plays from work and logs in again as soon as he gets home every day; that's a high bar for a brand new release."
That's not just a high bar for a brand new release. It's a bar for pretty much every single massively multiplayer game that has ever been made, because none have ever even come close to WoW. And I want to back that up by saying that I've dipped my toes in other MMO's over the years, and none of them can even hold a candle to the polish, balance, storylines, characters, and overall fun of World of Warcraft.
I definitely feel the cataclysm has not had the same panache as BC or Wrath, but it's still the best, and the best by far. I think the bigger issue with wow is that it's a game that many people have been playing for a long time, and it just gets fatiguing after a while playing the same game. I mean, for example, as much as I love Final Fantasy 7, I can say that I only ever played through it all the way once. And then I moved on to the next game... you just don't get that playing a MMO for many months and/or years.
That being said, it doesn't give others the right to just bash the game, because I'll go back to Robin's point... if you're not having fun playing a game, you shouldn't be playing it. A game is supposed to be fun, you know? If you're not having fun, you shouldn't just stick it out/gut it out because of your friends. I know of quite a few multi-game guilds that have many active people that don't play this game or that game, but will join back up when they find something interesting, and in the meantime they stay in contact through the guild website or facebook or other social networks.
Carlos Oct 13th 2011 4:17PM
To each its own. I played WOW for 4 years of my life and unsubscribed last February. I am having
the time of my life playing another MMO which I shall not name. Never did I ever have
in WOW the epic battles that I am now experiencing with this other MMO.
HOWEVER, I never ever bashed WOW ... it is an amazing game.
I may have constructive opinions how WOW could suit my preferred gaming, but
I would not bash it for the sakes of bashing it. It was, however, very disappointing to leave behind
my two 85's and four 80's ... so much time and effort wasted not to mention some of my worst
gaming experiences occurred in wow .. quite possibly because it was my first MMO and being a
noob my first year in WOW was not fun.
Therinor Oct 10th 2011 1:22PM
Oh wow, Lisa's comments really hit home for me... I am in pretty much the same situation as her husband. I was looking forward to Cataclysm, I really was, and realized very quickly I didnt feel at home anymore, not even remotely as immersed as I did in the past, whether it was vanilla or tbc or wrath.
I wouldnt say I was repelled, it was just a slow, creeping process. I took my first break from Cata in January, until about March or April, and stopped playing a month ago.
I do miss my guildies a lot, which is why I keep my account open, and they are so insanely nice to me and its good to know they are there, but it would be wrong to "force" myself to play just to be with them in game as I wouldnt enjoy it, and so I am looking for something else, or maybe, who knows, I come back one day.
Daisyfizzi Oct 11th 2011 5:11AM
@Therinor - I'm in the same boat, Aside from 5 minutes to get my main the purple Brewfest Tankard I haven't logged on in months. I keep up to date via sites like this because my husband is still playing and there's always the chance it's a hiatus rather than a permanent situation, but I'm guessing I'll be waiting until the next expansion before I re-sub. I don't understand why people like those mentioned in the post go out of their way to bash WoW, whilst playing WoW. Surely it's more productive to log off and find something else to do.
The Dewd Oct 10th 2011 1:23PM
I've told my guild that I plan to keep playing as long as the social aspect is there. If too many people quit, I'll probably be done. If everyone in the guild jumps ship for the new Star Wars MMO (or any other game), I'd probably follow long enough to try it. But I play more for the social aspect than anything else; sometimes I chat on vent even if I'm doing other things.
Killik Oct 10th 2011 1:42PM
Freedom of speech is one thing, and everyone likes a good moan, but these players were just using the guild as a recruiting ground for their own, separate venture.
As a GM you can't allow that behaviour to persist - it's the same as if they'd joined another guild with their mains and were logging on alts to poach healers and tanks from your scheduled raids.
Strike 1: Polite, private warning
Strike 2: Public forum post
Strike 3: gkick
Therinor Oct 10th 2011 1:48PM
I agree, its unfair to use the guild-FB for that. I used to be in a very active progression-raiding-guild, and when I came back from a break, quite a few had left, but I never found out how. Turns out that some of them had been chatting on Vent when no one else was on, and had left together for a new game. They didnt promote that, didnt try to pull more people.
Those that asked them by email ofc were told where they went, and some followed, but they weren't promoting it. It took quite a while until I eventually figured out where those ppl went =)