Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsBlizzard responds to Guardian Cub controversy
by Matthew Rossi 
Oct 11th 2011 at 4:00PM
Bashiok - Re: Blizzard, you've crossed the line
TCG Loot card mounts like the Spectral Tiger have been BoE for a long time now (since patch 3.2), and that was and continues to be well-received, and as far as we've been able to tell hasn't had any adverse impact to the game or economy - despite them selling for sometimes astronomical amounts of gold.
It's potentially worth noting that no new gold is being introduced into the game's economy with those mounts or the new Guardian Cub pet.
Our goal with the Guardian Cub is to provide alternative ways for players who don't want to spend real money to add these pets to their collection. Even though this has been available a while now with the TCG mounts, this is obviously a new kind of way to deliver Pet Store pets, and we're definitely interested to hear your feedback and ultimately see how this will play out.
It's potentially worth noting that no new gold is being introduced into the game's economy with those mounts or the new Guardian Cub pet.
Our goal with the Guardian Cub is to provide alternative ways for players who don't want to spend real money to add these pets to their collection. Even though this has been available a while now with the TCG mounts, this is obviously a new kind of way to deliver Pet Store pets, and we're definitely interested to hear your feedback and ultimately see how this will play out.
To be fair, since this is exactly what I said about the Cub on the WoW Insider Show this week, I'm already on record as agreeing with him fully. The only difference between the Guardian Cub and loot cards is that you don't have to spend money hoping you'll get the Cub. You spend ten bucks and you know you have one.
Well, also, the thing is adorable. That's not really germane to the discussion, though. What do you think about our friendly Cub? Cute pet, money for gold, soul-meltingly cute step off of the slippery slope? Tell us.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, News items
Reader Comments (Page 6 of 8)
John Oct 11th 2011 5:32PM
Violet - the fact that you're equating a legitimate purchase of an item that is ok per the EULA / TOS with buying currency from hackers in violation of those agreed-upon contracts clearly identifies your mentality as low and weak.
VioletArrows Oct 11th 2011 6:04PM
Okay. :)
evoxpisces Oct 11th 2011 4:56PM
I don't care about the pet itself but I am extremely tempted to buy it so I can make some money, because my characters are very very poor. I think it's not a terrible idea, and people are blowing it out of proportion. No one is forced to buy it with real money or in-game money, so if people want to buy it with real money and sell it for fake money, then why not?
Killik Oct 11th 2011 5:06PM
As seen in some of the other comments on here, it's probably not going to be an amazing way to make money. People who really want it will just buy it from the store - look how many Celestial Steeds popped up, when that was released.
Mind you, the fact that it only binds to one character is probably intended to keep its AH value relatively high.
ravyynn Oct 11th 2011 4:57PM
@VioletArrows that is indeed your choice however I am not saying nor advocating breaking the TOS. So don't put words into my mouth.
gloryblogs Oct 11th 2011 4:58PM
I just wish they'd get it up on the store already. =)
sezen Oct 11th 2011 5:02PM
many of the pets have also been part of a "cause", so buying them allows you to donate to a worthy cause and get something cute.
sezen Oct 11th 2011 5:03PM
silly browsers, this was supposed to be a response to tbutton
ravyynn Oct 11th 2011 5:03PM
@ gloryblogs if it's anything like the new TCG expansion it wont be until 4.3 drops. The new TCG expansion hit the stores today but the new loot items won't be available until 4.3 is live.
Drakkenfyre Oct 11th 2011 5:13PM
These don't work the same way as the TCG items.
Those items are rare. The chances of even getting one is slim. It wasn't until several sets in did they include "uncommon" loot cards which are in 1 out of 11 boxes, and are items with uses. They aren't permanent items or pets. They use up, and then they disappear.
Pulling a mount or a pet could be a 1 in 300 box thing. Then, when you get it, you might be tempted to use it because it's so rare. The bought pet isn't the same way. Everyone can get it. You can buy as many as you like, and sell them to everyone else.
You get a TCG card, it's your's. It's a physical item you had to purchase, and you either got extremely lucky, or paid an assload for it. I have no problems with someone selling that. It's a single item with a value. The pet on the store is not a physical item, and it is not in limited numbers. If you could continuously pull TCG loot cards for next to nothing, and sell them, that would be different. You can sit there and buy the store pet until you run out of money.
Plainswander Oct 11th 2011 5:34PM
Thank you for pointing out what should be the staggeringly obvious differences between this and the TCG stuff. I just wish it didn't need to be pointed out so very much.
I salute you sir.
Skarn Oct 11th 2011 10:34PM
While true that many of the TCG pets are rare, they are also 100% attainable if you want them. You can get any of the pets, mounts or other loot cards that you want over at www.wowtcgloot.com There is enough supply out there to meet the demand, if all you want is the pet/mount/item and don't actually care about the card.
The real difference here is the price. Demand for the TCG items is generally very low because the price is very high. The supply exists, but most people aren't interested in the price to get at that supply, either in cash or gold. The Guardian Cub is cheap. Thus demand for it is likely to be high. The price is actually where the TCG and Blizzard Store differ, not the availability. Of course, I can't ignore that the availability directly affects the price. That's very important. Would demand for the TCG items exceed supply if the price was dropped to $10? Probably. Though the uncommon pets certainly haven't run out and they run around $10 or cheaper.
You could sit over at Wowtcgloot.com and buy pets until you run out of money, they'll be happy to sell 'em to you, just like you can the Blizzard Store. The situations are actually extremely similar. Supply actually exceeds demand in BOTH cases, it's just that demand is lower for the TCG items.
Drakkenfyre Oct 11th 2011 11:41PM
As I said, you are either going to get extremely lucky, or pay an assload.
If you want to spend $5000 to make 50,000g, that's your choice.
But when you place an item in the store for $10, and remove the limitations of supply (those TCG cards are limited, and the majority of them are out of print. The older they get, the more expensive they get) you get an item which is simply substituting one for another.
Each time you buy a card, you remove one from circulation unless you don't use it. Eventually all of those cards will be used up unless someone is hoarding them somewhere. I don't see a problem with people selling TCG items for two reasons. 1. The items were originally BOP, and were made BOE simply to stop scamming. 2. It allows people to obtain items for gold which they may not necessarily find otherwise.
There is a good chance unless you were scouring every shop that sells cards, that you would never come across a Spectral Tiger still in the package because the set is out of print, and because of the card being included in that set, most people ransacked that set. If you don't want to spend $800 on a card on eBay, you can find someone on the AH selling one for 200,000g. I am fine with this. It's an extremely limited item, and it gets the seller what they want (a massive amount of gold) and the buyer what they want (the mount.)
The TCG cards are random. Unless you purchase that card specifically, you may not get one. When it comes down to an item which is purchaseable from Blizzard, in an unlimited amount, and is cheap, and can be converted directly into gold, you are indirectly buying gold.
Spending $800 over and over to get gold is not feasible. No one but idiots and extremely rich people would do it. Spending $10 over and over again almost anyone can do.
"Hey, an item we license can be found, if you are lucky, and put on the AH and sold." and "Hey, an item you can buy from us and put on the AH and sell" are two different things.
Plainswander Oct 11th 2011 5:10PM
It's directly and intentionally selling in-game advantages for real world money. How much of an advantage (i.e. how much gold you can get for a cub) is market driven, and subject to change and devaluation over time, but, it's still something that exists.
Whether or not this is a good idea is not the point, at least for me. Nor is whether or not it'll be even a remotely viable gold-generating method after the first month or so. As I see it, the whole point is that it's something that happens at all. Previously, this kind of thing was actionable and against the stated principles of the game. It's blizzard's right to change the rules they see fit, true, but that doesn't mean they're right or we must automatically approve of directions they take (see: RealId real name usage...).
Unless the game goes FTP and is wholly microtransaction driven, then I don't think this has any place in the subscription/expansion model. If this continues, it will essentially layer a third type of payment on top of the current two (monthly sub fees, periodic expansion charges, and now adding RMT upkeep to stay competitive). That is, as I see it, kinda excessive. Not to mention, if Blizzard (as the 800lb gorilla on the block) gets away with it, the likelihood is very high that others will follow suit.
Of course, if you're not the kind of player who tries to keep current, then this probably doesn't matter, but, from my experience, WoW players tend to not be that relaxed. As a general rule. Heh.
[TIN FOIL HAT TIME: THE FOLLOWING IS JUST ME BEING PARANOID]
There's been a lot of very smart people pointing out that the market for these is going to depress and stabilize very quickly, and they'll no longer be too good for making money. What do you think the users who were using them to make money are going to do then? I'll bet I know. And I'll bet it involves asking blizzard for some other form of purchasable currency which won't devalue.
And I bet Blizzard will deliver such.
I See What I Did There Oct 11th 2011 5:27PM
"There's been a lot of very smart people pointing out that the market for these is going to depress and stabilize very quickly, and they'll no longer be too good for making money. What do you think the users who were using them to make money are going to do then? I'll bet I know. And I'll bet it involves asking blizzard for some other form of purchasable currency which won't devalue.
And I bet Blizzard will deliver such."
The idea of introducing a secondary currency based on real money is a scary thought. I really hope this is not the direction that this game is going.
Plainswander Oct 11th 2011 5:31PM
It is also worth noting that two different CM's used the same boilerplate copy to justify this. (One european, one american.....)
Drakkenfyre Oct 11th 2011 5:41PM
We don't need to be screwed by another currency. Blizzard's already had that happen once, Stones of Jordon were the currency in Diablo 2 because gold was so plentiful that it was basically worthless. They even admit they failed on the economy in Diablo 2, and that people relying on Stones of Jordon was a bad situation, and they were going to repeat it for Diablo 3.
If they go on with this, and eventually introduce other items which can be sold, and it ends up being a similiar situation, the items will be more valuable than gold, it's going to do the same thing.
Drakkenfyre Oct 11th 2011 6:34PM
Were not going to repeat it*
thelsumazu Oct 12th 2011 4:50AM
I think the real issue is most players are use to (and LIKED the fact) the pet store mounts and minis going to ALL of their chars on all servers. so before it was like getting 50 mini pets for 10 dollars. and the TCG loot being used to balance this marketing idea is a tad bit silly. Loot cards are super rare (the good ones anyway) and are the key selling point for the TCG. the cub will no rare'ness to it. I have no problem with the mini being sold as a one time pet or even BoE... but to sell it at the same cost as the others that can be used up to 50 times on an account... seems like the little guys should be cheaper... Thats all i am says.
shotiechan Oct 11th 2011 5:13PM
I love how Blizzard totally dodged the point that people are also upset about the fact the pet costs $10 and yet isn't a pet that you get across a multitude of characters. They've been charging $10 for a BOA pet. This isn't BOA, it's a one-time use only pet. I think, because of that, it shouldn't likely be $10, it should be cheaper.